Christianity Was At The Heart Of The Founders Of The U.S.A..

[Avatar4321]

Actually I think if the schools did a better job of teaching the main tenets of each 'big' religion, IE Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, we would have a much more globally versed society. Now there is a difference with 'indoctrination' which is what happens when one is taught at the exclusion of the others-that is 'establishment.'

I agree. I loved learning about what others believe and think because it helped me construct alot of what i believe and think. It made me stronger in my faith.

Ironic dont you think that the left is so scared of indoctrination with Christian values when they have no problem trying to indoctrinate children with their ideas.

 

[acludem]

The site you linked to is filled with massive amounts of misinformation. Of the five founders mentioned, only Patrick Henry supported government sponsorship of religion. John Jay opposed it. John Adams and George Washington opposed it. Thomas Jefferson mentioned on his tombstone that he was the author the of Virginia statute for religious freedom. James Madison was the leader who steered Jefferson statute to passage. It is true that most of our founders were, at least nominally, Christian. But to promote the view that all were somehow religious fanatics who believed we should all have to pray in school and that the U.S. Government was founded specifically as a Christian government simply defies the facts. There is a reason why God is not mentioned anywhere in the text that set up our government. There is a reason why the first amendment to the Constitution specifically bans government sponsorship and support of religion. That reason is crystal clear. The U.S. government was designed to be entirely secular in operation.

acludem

 

[KarlMarx]

The site you linked to is filled with massive amounts of misinformation. Of the five founders mentioned, only Patrick Henry supported government sponsorship of religion. John Jay opposed it. John Adams and George Washington opposed it. Thomas Jefferson mentioned on his tombstone that he was the author the of Virginia statute for religious freedom. James Madison was the leader who steered Jefferson statute to passage. It is true that most of our founders were, at least nominally, Christian. But to promote the view that all were somehow religious fanatics who believed we should all have to pray in school and that the U.S. Government was founded specifically as a Christian government simply defies the facts. There is a reason why God is not mentioned anywhere in the text that set up our government. There is a reason why the first amendment to the Constitution specifically bans government sponsorship and support of religion. That reason is crystal clear. The U.S. government was designed to be entirely secular in operation.

acludem

Oh, so "religious fanatics" are people that have a deep faith in Christ? Glad that you admit it!

No, acludem, the founding fathers did not want to have a government that imposed a state church on its citizenry as England did. That is what they were talking about. Not driving religion out of public life. You are confusing Jefferson, Hamilton, Jay and Madison with Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao and Stalin.

Other lies perpetuated by the Left ... Lincoln was gay and Jefferson had a million kids with his slaves. The First Amendment protects pornography (it doesn't, it protects political speech). The Founding Fathers had gay marriage in mind when they drafted the Constitution and of course, their vision of America was like something from the "Communist Manifesto".

And if you really want to keep with the true spirit of the Founding Fathers. The goverment was originally designed to be almost entirely out of its citizen's hair. The Founding Fathers were in favor of a central government that did not involve itself too much with the lives of its citizens, except for providing for defense and "the common welfare". So let's start dismantling this lumbering behemoth of government which is more in line with the vision of FDR and the New Deal Democrats rather than the Founding Fathers.

I believe that the "fanatics" are the people who are trying to extricate religion from public life, not the ones who occassionally (or habitually) pray. The ones who are obsessed with religion are not the ones who uphold the Ten Commandments but the ones who are trying to erase them from public life (like you, perhaps?). The ones who are constantly crying in front of a judge that the Boy Scouts are evil because they teach traditional American values. And the reason they go to judges rather than the American voter is that they would get voted down in a heartbeat if they had to rely on the typical American voter to advance their agenda. Of course, these fanatics don't believe in a pluralistic society, but one ruled by an elite class of judges and citizens who "know better", in short, an oligarchy.

Most of these " religious fanatics" that you talk about are not Elvis look-a-likes with bad hair and a southern accent, but people who go to church, (some only on occassion). They want their kids to grow up with a solid sense of right and wrong, not because they want them to hate homosexuals and atheists, but because they want to protect them from the consequences of evil and immorality (like VD, AIDS, abortion, drug abuse, constant depression and so forth).

 

[ajwps]

Did you read any of the history on the site? You totally missed my point. The founding fathers had the GOVERNMENT purchase 20,000 Bibles in one of their first acts of Congress to be given to the masses. My point was, if we tried that today, everybody would yell "violation of separation of Church and State" which is based on nothing other than the desires of those yelling.

Did the founders purchase 20,000 Gideon bibles to be placed in every hotel and motel room?

Did the founders of the US Constitution write "Only Christians Welcome? All other need not live in North American Indian country."

Did the Founders establish this country a Christian State?

Should the three non-Christian US Contitutional founders have their contribution to this country for the free practice of any religion be thrown out as none Christian haters of the faith of Paul of Tarsus?

If Jesus Christ came back to America, would the good Christian Constitutional scholars string him up because he was never a Christian during his lifetime?

 

[Eightball]

Oh, so "religious fanatics" are people that have a deep faith in Christ? Glad that you admit it!

No, acludem, the founding fathers did not want to have a government that imposed a state church on its citizenry as England did. That is what they were talking about. Not driving religion out of public life. You are confusing Jefferson, Hamilton, Jay and Madison with Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao and Stalin.

Other lies perpetuated by the Left ... Lincoln was gay and Jefferson had a million kids with his slaves. The First Amendment protects pornography (it doesn't, it protects political speech). The Founding Fathers had gay marriage in mind when they drafted the Constitution and of course, their vision of America was like something from the "Communist Manifesto".

And if you really want to keep with the true spirit of the Founding Fathers. The goverment was originally designed to be almost entirely out of its citizen's hair. The Founding Fathers were in favor of a central government that did not involve itself too much with the lives of its citizens, except for providing for defense and "the common welfare". So let's start dismantling this lumbering behemoth of government which is more in line with the vision of FDR and the New Deal Democrats rather than the Founding Fathers.

I believe that the "fanatics" are the people who are trying to extricate religion from public life, not the ones who occassionally (or habitually) pray. The ones who are obsessed with religion are not the ones who uphold the Ten Commandments but the ones who are trying to erase them from public life (like you, perhaps?). The ones who are constantly crying in front of a judge that the Boy Scouts are evil because they teach traditional American values. And the reason they go to judges rather than the American voter is that they would get voted down in a heartbeat if they had to rely on the typical American voter to advance their agenda. Of course, these fanatics don't believe in a pluralistic society, but one ruled by an elite class of judges and citizens who "know better", in short, an oligarchy.

Most of these " religious fanatics" that you talk about are not Elvis look-a-likes with bad hair and a southern accent, but people who go to church, (some only on occassion). They want their kids to grow up with a solid sense of right and wrong, not because they want them to hate homosexuals and atheists, but because they want to protect them from the consequences of evil and immorality (like VD, AIDS, abortion, drug abuse, constant depression and so forth).

Your comment was excellent!

 

[pegwinn]

Please check out this weblink.

Especially for those of you that see Separation of Church and State as something akin to concrete in our Constitution.

http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/forsakenroots.html

Did you know that 52 of the 55 signers of The Declaration of Independence were orthodox, deeply committed Christians? The other three all believed in the Bible as the divine truth, the God of scripture, and His personal intervention.

Please check out the above link and share your comments.

Yes, I have an agenda, but who doesn't when they submit threads in these forums.

Regards, Eightballsidepocket :usa:

Howdy. Is this historically accurate? Has the site been fact checked or will a liberal debunk it and turn it into another "rathergate" site?

 

[acludem]

It's only accurate in that it contains what appear to be accurate quotes. Isolated quotes do not prove anything. I never said called anyone a "fanatic". That's the usual response from right-wing theocrats who attack anyone who believes in freedom of religion as "fanatically anti-religion." I don't know if Lincoln was gay, nor do I care, the same holds true for whatever Jeffersons sexual peccadillos were. These are smokescreens. Fact is, God and religion were left out of the Constitution because they were to kept out of the government. This was not be a government based upon religious dogma, but rather a government based upon a set of secular ideals, some of which likely are similar to religious dogma. Those who attempt to argue that this nation was founded as a "Christian" nation fail to even recognize that even amongst the Christian founders there were significant differences in religious belief. Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and Benjamin Franklin were Deists. John Adams was a unitarian. George Washington and Patrick Henry were Presbyterians. There were also Catholics, Lutherans, Episcopalian/Anglicans, etc. etc. The founders of our nation had diverse views on religion. That's why they left religion out of the Constitution.