Christ in the Book of Mormon

[hangover]

Well at least the Mormons don't dispute the plates being sent by aliens from the Pleiades nebula, they just kinda pretend it wasn't said.

we don't dispute the existence of lizard people living in tunnels under salt lake city either. For the same reason.

Is that a denial, or are you just admitting Mormonism is as dumb as a bag of hammers?

 

[Avatar4321]

No point denying what no reasonable person would believe to begin with.

now why don't you share some insight on Christ that you've learned from reading the Book of Mormon? I'd love to heard your thoughts on the subject.

 

[Avatar4321]

G.A. I haven't ignored your questions on theories. I'm thinking about them and will respond when I'm ready.

 

[G.T.]

Hey its a good thing jesus didnt tell joseph smith to be a con man and a pedophile within scripture.

Didnt stop him though.

 

[Avatar4321]

If you don't like the subject, no one is forcing you to be here.

but while your here why don't you share your favorite passage about Christ from the Book of Mormon?

 

[G.T.]

I enjoy bashing the book of mormon.

It deserves scorn and shame.

What did it say about black people, originally?

Naaaaaaaaaw. .you dont have to answer.

I know i know....god changed his mind when America did.

 

[Avatar4321]

The only mention of black people in the Book of Mormon is the following:

"For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile." (2 Nephi 26:33)

Not really surprising considering the majority of the Book of Mormon takes place somewhere in north or south America. And Nephi, being one of the few who came from Jerusalem, would have been one of the few people who would have had any first hand experience with anyone of African decent.

 

[G.T.]

2 nephi 5:21 ass hole

 

[Avatar4321]

2 nephi 5:21 ass hole

Doesn't mention blacks at all.

 

[G.T.]

2 nephi 5:21 ass hole

Doesn't mention blacks at all.

Omg,

Thats sad.

 

[Avatar4321]

2 nephi 5:21 ass hole

Doesn't mention blacks at all.

Omg,

Thats sad.

Yes it true is sad that you think you know what the Book of Mormon says without ever having read it yourself.

Read it for yourself GT. Don't take anyone else's word for it. Not even mine. A book that takes place in the ancient Americas isn't going to have many, if any, Africans in it.

 

[G.T.]

2 nephi 5:21 ass hole

Doesn't mention blacks at all.

Omg,

Thats sad.

Yes it true is sad that you think you know what the Book of Mormon says without ever having read it yourself.

Read it for yourself GT. Don't take anyone else's word for it. Not even mine. A book that takes place in the ancient Americas isn't going to have many, if any, Africans in it.

Right. Is doesnt say dark skin is a curse and blah.blah.

I read it with someone else eyes.

Youre a gullible prick.

Post the entire text of 2 5:21.

 

[Avatar4321]

Laminates aren't black people. o verses discussing lamanites don't support your argument.

And if you are familiar at all with the Book of Mormon you would know much effort went into bringing them back to the Lord. And those efforts were highly successful. So much so that they reached a point where they became more righteous

"And it came to pass that when the sixty and second year of the reign of the judges had ended, all these things had happened and the Lamanites had become, the more part of them, a righteous people, insomuch that their righteousness did exceed that of the Nephites, because of their firmness and their steadiness in the faith.

For behold, there were many of the Nephites who had become hardened and impenitent and grossly wicked, insomuch that they did reject the word of God and all the preaching and prophesying which did come among them.

Nevertheless, the people of the church did have great joy because of the conversion of the Lamanites, yea, because of the church of God, which had been established among them. And they did fellowship one with another, and did rejoice one with another, and did have great joy." ( Helaman 6:1-3)

You keep proving that you aren't familiar with the text.

Read helaman chapter 5. It is one of the most powerful missionary accounts in all of scriptures. In it Nephi and Lehi act with the power of God to bring an entire people to christ.

Helaman 5

Read it for yourself. These people weren't cursed. They were blessed above most people to walk the world.

And even if you don't believe it, believe in Christ. He can heal you of the pain you feel. He can make you whole. I know that because He has healed me. He does so regularly.and He loves you.

 

[Avatar4321]

The account in Helaman 5 is a great place to go next in our look at Christ in the Book of Mormon:

"And it came to pass that they were taken by an army of the Lamanites and cast into prison; yea, even in that same prison in which Ammon and his brethren were cast by the servants of Limhi.

22 And after they had been cast into prison many days without food, behold, they went forth into the prison to take them that they might slay them.

23 And it came to pass that Nephi and Lehi were encircled about as if by fire, even insomuch that they durst not lay their hands upon them for fear lest they should be burned. Nevertheless, Nephi and Lehi were not burned; and they were as standing in the midst of fire and were not burned.

24 And when they saw that they were encircled about with a pillar of fire, and that it burned them not, their hearts did take courage.

25 For they saw that the Lamanites durst not lay their hands upon them; neither durst they come near unto them, but stood as if they were struck dumb with amazement.

26 And it came to pass that Nephi and Lehi did stand forth and began to speak unto them, saying: Fear not, for behold, it is God that has shown unto you this marvelous thing, in the which is shown unto you that ye cannot lay your hands on us to slay us.

27 And behold, when they had said these words, the earth shook exceedingly, and the walls of the prison did shake as if they were about to tumble to the earth; but behold, they did not fall. And behold, they that were in the prison were Lamanites and Nephites who were dissenters.

28 And it came to pass that they were overshadowed with a cloud of darkness, and an awful solemn fear came upon them.

29 And it came to pass that there came a voice as if it were above the cloud of darkness, saying: Repent ye, repent ye, and seek no more to destroy my servantswhom I have sent unto you to declare good tidings.

30 And it came to pass when they heard this voice, and beheld that it was not a voice of thunder, neither was it a voice of a great tumultuous noise, but behold, it was astill voice of perfect mildness, as if it had been a whisper, and it did pierce even to the very soul—

31 And notwithstanding the mildness of the voice, behold the earth shook exceedingly, and the walls of the prison trembled again, as if it were about to tumble to the earth; and behold the cloud of darkness, which had overshadowed them, did not disperse—

32 And behold the voice came again, saying: Repent ye, repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand; and seek no more to destroy my servants. And it came to pass that the earth shook again, and the walls trembled.

33 And also again the third time the voice came, and did speak unto them marvelous words which cannot be uttered by man; and the walls did tremble again, and the earth shook as if it were about to divide asunder.

34 And it came to pass that the Lamanites could not flee because of the cloud of darkness which did overshadow them; yea, and also they were immovable because of the fear which did come upon them.

35 Now there was one among them who was a Nephite by birth, who had once belonged to the church of God but had dissented from them.

36 And it came to pass that he turned him about, and behold, he saw through the cloud of darkness the faces of Nephi and Lehi; and behold, they did shineexceedingly, even as the faces of angels. And he beheld that they did lift their eyes to heaven; and they were in the attitude as if talking or lifting their voices to some being whom they beheld.

37 And it came to pass that this man did cry unto the multitude, that they might turn and look. And behold, there was power given unto them that they did turn and look; and they did behold the faces of Nephi and Lehi.

38 And they said unto the man: Behold, what do all these things mean, and who is it with whom these men do converse?

39 Now the man’s name was Aminadab. And Aminadab said unto them: They do converse with the angels of God.

40 And it came to pass that the Lamanites said unto him: What shall we do, that this cloud of darkness may be removed from overshadowing us?

41 And Aminadab said unto them: You must repent, and cry unto the voice, even until ye shall have faith in Christ, who was taught unto you by Alma, and Amulek, and Zeezrom; and when ye shall do this, the cloud of darkness shall be removed from overshadowing you.

42 And it came to pass that they all did begin to cry unto the voice of him who had shaken the earth; yea, they did cry even until the cloud of darkness was dispersed.

43 And it came to pass that when they cast their eyes about, and saw that the cloud of darkness was dispersed from overshadowing them, behold, they saw that they were encircled about, yea every soul, by a pillar of fire.

44 And Nephi and Lehi were in the midst of them; yea, they were encircled about; yea, they were as if in the midst of a flaming fire, yet it did harm them not, neither did it take hold upon the walls of the prison; and they were filled with that joy which is unspeakable and full of glory.

45 And behold, the Holy Spirit of God did come down from heaven, and did enter into their hearts, and they were filled as if with fire, and they could speak forth marvelous words.

46 And it came to pass that there came a voice unto them, yea, a pleasant voice, as if it were a whisper, saying:

47 Peace, peace be unto you, because of your faith in my Well Beloved, who was from the foundation of the world.

48 And now, when they heard this they cast up their eyes as if to behold from whence the voice came; and behold, they saw the heavens open; and angels came down out of heaven and ministered unto them.

49 And there were about three hundred souls who saw and heard these things; and they were bidden to go forth and marvel not, neither should they doubt." (Helaman 5:21-49)

 

[BreezeWood]

Christ can heal us physically and spiritually. Seek Him and you will be made whole.

.
why would the body confuse itself, creating aberrant cells ... then, oddly believing Christ "would" solve, not should solve what is irresponsible by the being.

the Spirit is immutable and can only be destroyed necessarily by the Almighty.

.

 

[Avatar4321]

Because of how Avatar himself likes to disrespect other religions, particularly Islam, I could allow myself to be a hater too and just say that Moroni Bologna Macaroni was Joseph Smith's imaginary friend... if he actually believed what he was preaching. Otherwise it was just part of a tactic to get a bunch of people to follow him religiously.

BUT bein' the epic Pagan that I am...

Here is the Ashtara theory

Moroni could have been a Thoughtform, or Tulpa, that Joseph Smith created in his Mind which successfully acted as a vessel for the Forces above to help guide him into the formation of a new religion.

The Mormons believe Moroni was once human, then died, then was reincarnated as an Angel, and visited Earth to help Joseph Smith create Mormonism. If Moroni was "real", did Moroni physically manifest before Joseph Smith, or did he instead use a Tulpa as a vessel in Joseph Smith's mind to achieve the same purpose?

Let us also consider a similar theory...

Moroni (whether or not he once was human in a past Life) could have been an advanced extraterrestrial being (perhaps an "Angel" hailing from the Kolob system or some other place) who sought to guide a fraction of humanity along a certain path, and thus somehow manifested before Joseph Smith and began a chain of events that ultimately led to the creation of the Mormon religion.

​

First, Moroni wasn't reincarnated as an angel. He was resurre

Because of how Avatar himself likes to disrespect other religions, particularly Islam, I could allow myself to be a hater too and just say that Moroni Bologna Macaroni was Joseph Smith's imaginary friend... if he actually believed what he was preaching. Otherwise it was just part of a tactic to get a bunch of people to follow him religiously.

BUT bein' the epic Pagan that I am...

Here is the Ashtara theory

Moroni could have been a Thoughtform, or Tulpa, that Joseph Smith created in his Mind which successfully acted as a vessel for the Forces above to help guide him into the formation of a new religion.

The Mormons believe Moroni was once human, then died, then was reincarnated as an Angel, and visited Earth to help Joseph Smith create Mormonism. If Moroni was "real", did Moroni physically manifest before Joseph Smith, or did he instead use a Tulpa as a vessel in Joseph Smith's mind to achieve the same purpose?

Let us also consider a similar theory...

Moroni (whether or not he once was human in a past Life) could have been an advanced extraterrestrial being (perhaps an "Angel" hailing from the Kolob system or some other place) who sought to guide a fraction of humanity along a certain path, and thus somehow manifested before Joseph Smith and began a chain of events that ultimately led to the creation of the Mormon religion.

​

Moroni wasn't reincarnated into an angel. He was resurrected. As we all will be because of Christ's victory over death.

what I like about your theories is you don't just discount josephs experiences. But there are two things that are problematic with the theories.

First, Joseph wasn't the only person who Moroni appeared to. Oliver Cowdery, Martin Harris, and David Whitmer have their witness in the beginning of the Book of Mormon along with Joseph's testimony:

"Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.


Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris"

I found more details on this event in a history of the church institute manual:

"Thereafter the four men retired to the woods and sought for the promised fulfillment of the revelation. After two unsuccessful attempts, however, Martin Harris felt that his presence was the reason for their failure to receive an answer. He withdrew a distance and offered his private prayers. The other three had no sooner resumed their prayers when Moroni appeared in glory holding the plates in his hands. Joseph recorded, “He turned over the leaves one by one, so that we could see them, and discern the engravings thereon distinctly. … We heard a voice from out of the bright light above us, saying, ‘These plates have been revealed by the power of God, and they have been translated by the power of God. The translation of them which you have seen is correct, and I command you to bear record of what you now see and hear.’

“I now left David and Oliver, and went in pursuit of Martin Harris, whom I found at a considerable distance, fervently engaged in prayer. He soon told me, however, that he had not yet prevailed with the Lord, and earnestly requested me to join him in prayer, that he might also realize the same blessings which we had just received. We accordingly joined in prayer, and ultimately obtained our desires, for before we had yet finished, the same vision was opened to our view, at least it was again opened to me, and I once more beheld and heard the same things; whilst at the same moment, Martin Harris cried out, apparently in an ecstasy of joy, ‘’Tis enough; ’tis enough; mine eyes have beheld; mine eyes have beheld.’”

There is another account of David, Joseph, and Oliver meeting Moroni:

This was the first meeting between Joseph Smith and David Whitmer. As had happened with Oliver Cowdery, David and Joseph quickly became friends. Soon they were on their way to Fayette, some one hundred miles away. On this occasion Moroni took the plates to avoid danger while transporting them. Another unusual event occurred en route. It happened while they were riding along in the wagon. David Whitmer described the event:

“A very pleasant, nice-looking old man suddenly appeared by the side of our wagon and saluted us with, ‘good morning, it is very warm,’ at the same time wiping his face or forehead with his hand. We returned the salutation, and, by a sign from Joseph, I invited him to ride if he was going our way. But he said very pleasantly, ‘No, I am going to Cumorah.’ This name was something new to me, I did not know what Cumorah meant. We all gazed at him and at each other, and as I looked around enquiringly of Joseph, the old man instantly disappeared. …
“… It was the messenger who had the plates, who had taken them from Joseph just prior to our starting from Harmony.”

Sister Whitmer also testified to have seeing Moroni and the plates. So the three witnesses, sister Whitmer and Joseph's account provide at least 5 witnesses of Moroni.

Joseph's testimony can be found here

Testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith

Second, Moroni wasn't the only angelic messenger there was.

John the Baptist appeared to Joseph and Oliver on the banks I'd the Susquehanna to restore the Priesthood of Aaron which has the keys to the ministering of angels and the gospel of repentance and baptism by immersion.

Peter, James, and John appeared to Joseph and Oliver.and restored the melchizedek priesthood and the office of the apostleship. This may also be the time Michael appeared.

Moses, a prophet called Elias, and Elijah the prophet appeared to Oliver and Joseph to restore priesthood keys including the keys to the gathering of Israel, the keys to organising eternal families and the power to seal on earth and in heaven.

God the Father and the Son appeared to Joseph I'm the first vision.

They were seen by Joseph and Sidney during the vision of the degrees of glory. 27 people were present at the time. Some saw the vision, others heard it,, and others experienced the glory of God come upon them.

The Father and Son also appeared to the School of the Prophets

Joseph didn't just say "I have a Vision" and expect everyone to believe Him because he said it. He invited his friends and neighbors to participate in the Visions. He stated the Lord would reveal what He showed Him to even the least of the saints.

And that's just a few of the many events of the restoration.

 

[Avatar4321]

And it came to pass that he commanded that theirlittle children should be brought.

12 So they brought their little children and set them down upon the ground round about him, and Jesus stood in the midst; and the multitude gave way till they had all been brought unto him.

13 And it came to pass that when they had all been brought, and Jesus stood in the midst, he commanded the multitude that they should kneel down upon the ground.

14 And it came to pass that when they had knelt upon the ground, Jesus groaned within himself, and said: Father, I am troubled because of the wickedness of the people of the house of Israel.

15 And when he had said these words, he himself alsoknelt upon the earth; and behold he prayed unto the Father, and the things which he prayed cannot be written, and the multitude did bear record who heard him.

16 And after this manner do they bear record: The eyehath never seen, neither hath the ear heard, before, so great and marvelous things as we saw and heard Jesus speak unto the Father;

17 And no tongue can speak, neither can there be written by any man, neither can the hearts of men conceive so great and marvelous things as we both saw and heard Jesus speak; and no one can conceive of the joy which filled our souls at the time we heard him pray for us unto the Father.

18 And it came to pass that when Jesus had made an end of praying unto the Father, he arose; but so great was the joy of the multitude that they were overcome.

19 And it came to pass that Jesus spake unto them, and bade them arise.

20 And they arose from the earth, and he said unto them: Blessed are ye because of your faith. And nowbehold, my joy is full.

21 And when he had said these words, he wept, and the multitude bare record of it, and he took their little children, one by one, and blessed them, and prayed unto the Father for them.

22 And when he had done this he wept again;

23 And he spake unto the multitude, and said unto them: Behold your little ones.

24 And as they looked to behold they cast their eyes towards heaven, and they saw the heavens open, and they saw angels descending out of heaven as it were in the midst of fire; and they came down and encircledthose little ones about, and they were encircled about with fire; and the angels did minister unto them.

25 And the multitude did see and hear and bear record; and they know that their record is true for they all of them did see and hear, every man for himself; and they were in number about two thousand and five hundred souls; and they did consist of men, women, and children. (3 Nephi 17:11-25)

Here we have Christ blessing the little children. One of the most touching scenes in the scriptures.

 

[Avatar4321]

5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, theblind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

6 And he shall cast out devils, or the evil spirits which dwell in the hearts of the children of men.

7 And lo, he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body,hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man cansuffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people.

8 And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.

9 And lo, he cometh unto his own, that salvation might come unto the children of men even through faith on his name; and even after all this they shall consider him a man, and say that he hath a devil, and shall scourge him, and shall crucify him.

10 And he shall rise the third day from the dead; and behold, he standeth to judge the world; and behold, all these things are done that a righteous judgment might come upon the children of men.

11 For behold, and also his blood atoneth for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam, who have died not knowing the will of God concerning them, or who have ignorantly sinned.

12 But wo, wo unto him who knoweth that he rebellethagainst God! For salvation cometh to none such except it be through repentance and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ.

13 And the Lord God hath sent his holy prophets among all the children of men, to declare these things to every kindred, nation, and tongue, that thereby whosoever should believe that Christ should come, the same might receive remission of their sins, and rejoice with exceedingly great joy, even as though he had already come among them (Mosiah 3:5-13)

This is part of a sermon by King Benjamin who taught his people to look forward to the coming of Christ. This part touched me because of the teaching that the remission of sins brings joy. I've found this to be true from my own experience. When you experience the Spirit of the Lord change you, you fill with joy.i this is the reason to share it with all you meet.

 

[Avatar4321]

Been sick so I haven't kept up on my thread here.

Today I thought I'd talk about Enos. His father taught him about Christ and he found a desire to know for himself. It's something everyone who comes to Christ experiences at some point.

This is his wrestle with God:

Spoiler: Testimony of Enos

Behold, it came to pass that I, Enos, knowing my father that he was a just man—for he taught me in his language, and also in the nurture and admonition of the Lord—and blessed be the name of my God for it—

2 And I will tell you of the wrestle which I had before God, before I received a remission of my sins.

3 Behold, I went to hunt beasts in the forests; and the words which I had often heard my father speak concerning eternal life, and the joy of the saints, sunkdeep into my heart.

4 And my soul hungered; and I kneeled down before my Maker, and I cried unto him in mighty prayer and supplication for mine own soul; and all the day long did I cry unto him; yea, and when the night came I did still raise my voice high that it reached the heavens.

5 And there came a voice unto me, saying: Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed.

6 And I, Enos, knew that God could not lie; wherefore, my guilt was swept away.

7 And I said: Lord, how is it done?

8 And he said unto me: Because of thy faith in Christ, whom thou hast never before heard nor seen. And many years pass away before he shall manifest himself in the flesh; wherefore, go to, thy faith hath made thee whole. (Enos 1:1-8)

 

[Avatar4321]

Spoiler: Nephi's Farwell testimony

And now, my beloved brethren, and also Jew, and all ye ends of the earth, hearken unto these words andbelieve in Christ; and if ye believe not in these words believe in Christ. And if ye shall believe in Christ ye will believe in these words, for they are the words of Christ, and he hath given them unto me; and they teach all men that they should do good.

11 And if they are not the words of Christ, judge ye—for Christ will show unto you, with power and great glory, that they are his words, at the last day; and you and I shall stand face to face before his bar; and ye shall know that I have been commanded of him to write these things, notwithstanding my weakness.

12 And I pray the Father in the name of Christ that many of us, if not all, may be saved in his kingdom at that great and last day. (2 Nephi 33:10-12)

Believe in Christ. Even if you don't believe everything those who claim Christ say. Get to know Christ for yourself. Don't let others keep you from Him.