Chomsky: The Arab World is on Fire

[georgephillip]

"'The Arab world is on fire,' al-Jazeera reported on Jan. 27, while throughout the region, Western allies 'are quickly losing their influence.'

"The shock wave was set in motion by the dramatic uprising in Tunisia that drove out a Western-backed dictator, with reverberations especially in Egypt, where demonstrators overwhelmed a dictator’s brutal police...

"The vibrant democracy movement in Tunisia was directed against 'a police state, with little freedom of expression or association, and serious human rights problems,' ruled by a dictator whose family was hated for their venality.

"This was the assessment by U.S. Ambassador Robert Godec in a July 2009 cable released by WikiLeaks.

Chomsky's op-ed then reveals how Washington provided $12 million in military aid to Tunisia and how there has long been a gap in the Arab world between what the masses believe and what Arab elites profess in public:

"Unmentioned is what the population thinks – easily discovered.

"According to polls released by the Brookings Institution in August, some Arabs agree with Washington and Western commentators that Iran is a threat: 10 percent.

"In contrast, they regard the U.S. and Israel as the major threats (77 percent; 88 percent).

"Arab opinion is so hostile to Washington’s policies that a majority (57 percent) think regional security would be enhanced if Iran had nuclear weapons...

"The dictators support us. Their subjects can be ignored – unless they break their chains, and then policy must be adjusted."

Arab chains have broken in Tunesia.
Are breaking in Egypt...
If Saudi chains are next?

 

[Avatar4321]

Well his powers of deduction are exceptional. I thought they were suffering major flooding.

 

[georgephillip]

"Eyewitnesses told Arab News that floodwater was turning streets into rivers once again, and that the water from a broken dam was flooding nearby neighborhoods.

"Cars were seen floating in some places."

Torrential rain hits...

For the record, Noam said nothing about Saudi Arabia in his op-ed.

It occurred to me that a popular uprising that toppled the Saudi Monarchy would change things is some of the ways 911 did.

Chomsky did offer his thoughts on Tunisia and Egypt in this 13 minute video on Democracy Now!

 

[Publius1787]

"'The Arab world is on fire,' al-Jazeera reported on Jan. 27, while throughout the region, Western allies 'are quickly losing their influence.'

"The shock wave was set in motion by the dramatic uprising in Tunisia that drove out a Western-backed dictator, with reverberations especially in Egypt, where demonstrators overwhelmed a dictator’s brutal police...

"The vibrant democracy movement in Tunisia was directed against 'a police state, with little freedom of expression or association, and serious human rights problems,' ruled by a dictator whose family was hated for their venality.

"This was the assessment by U.S. Ambassador Robert Godec in a July 2009 cable released by WikiLeaks.

Chomsky's op-ed then reveals how Washington provided $12 million in military aid to Tunisia and how there has long been a gap in the Arab world between what the masses believe and what Arab elites profess in public:

"Unmentioned is what the population thinks – easily discovered.

"According to polls released by the Brookings Institution in August, some Arabs agree with Washington and Western commentators that Iran is a threat: 10 percent.

"In contrast, they regard the U.S. and Israel as the major threats (77 percent; 88 percent).

"Arab opinion is so hostile to Washington’s policies that a majority (57 percent) think regional security would be enhanced if Iran had nuclear weapons...

"The dictators support us. Their subjects can be ignored – unless they break their chains, and then policy must be adjusted."

Arab chains have broken in Tunesia.
Are breaking in Egypt...
If Saudi chains are next?

Good ol Chomsky. Who beleives that war in all cases is bad. Unless of course your fighting against the united states or trying to premote religious extreamism or socialism. Then he is fine with it.

 

[WillowTree]

Well his powers of deduction are exceptional. I thought they were suffering major flooding.

 

[georgephillip]

"'The Arab world is on fire,' al-Jazeera reported on Jan. 27, while throughout the region, Western allies 'are quickly losing their influence.'

"The shock wave was set in motion by the dramatic uprising in Tunisia that drove out a Western-backed dictator, with reverberations especially in Egypt, where demonstrators overwhelmed a dictator’s brutal police...

"The vibrant democracy movement in Tunisia was directed against 'a police state, with little freedom of expression or association, and serious human rights problems,' ruled by a dictator whose family was hated for their venality.

"This was the assessment by U.S. Ambassador Robert Godec in a July 2009 cable released by WikiLeaks.

Chomsky's op-ed then reveals how Washington provided $12 million in military aid to Tunisia and how there has long been a gap in the Arab world between what the masses believe and what Arab elites profess in public:

"Unmentioned is what the population thinks – easily discovered.

"According to polls released by the Brookings Institution in August, some Arabs agree with Washington and Western commentators that Iran is a threat: 10 percent.

"In contrast, they regard the U.S. and Israel as the major threats (77 percent; 88 percent).

"Arab opinion is so hostile to Washington’s policies that a majority (57 percent) think regional security would be enhanced if Iran had nuclear weapons...

"The dictators support us. Their subjects can be ignored – unless they break their chains, and then policy must be adjusted."

Arab chains have broken in Tunesia.
Are breaking in Egypt...
If Saudi chains are next?

Good ol Chomsky. Who beleives that war in all cases is bad. Unless of course your fighting against the united states or trying to premote religious extreamism or socialism. Then he is fine with it.

"Chomsky was voted the leading living public intellectual in The 2005 Global Intellectuals Poll conducted by the British magazine Prospect. He reacted, saying 'I don't pay a lot of attention to polls'.[116]

"In a list compiled by the magazine New Statesman in 2006, he was voted seventh in the list of 'Heroes of our time'".

Chomsky - Wiki

It is widely believed he's the eighth most widely quoted author of all time. The only living writer on a top ten list that starts with the Bible.

Shakespeare, Freud, Marx, Chaucer, Cicero...Chomsky...

Can you tell me when he has supported wars of religious extremism?

 

[georgephillip]

Well his powers of deduction are exceptional. I thought they were suffering major flooding.

Agree or disagree?

"One 1989 comparison (to Tunisia and Egypt) has some validity: Romania, where Washington maintained its support for Nicolae Ceausescu, the most vicious of the East European dictators, until the allegiance became untenable.

"Then Washington hailed his overthrow while the past was erased."

The Arab World...

 

[gautama]

"'The Arab world is on fire,' al-Jazeera reported on Jan. 27, while throughout the region, Western allies 'are quickly losing their influence.'

"The shock wave was set in motion by the dramatic uprising in Tunisia that drove out a Western-backed dictator, with reverberations especially in Egypt, where demonstrators overwhelmed a dictator’s brutal police...

"The vibrant democracy movement in Tunisia was directed against 'a police state, with little freedom of expression or association, and serious human rights problems,' ruled by a dictator whose family was hated for their venality.

"This was the assessment by U.S. Ambassador Robert Godec in a July 2009 cable released by WikiLeaks.

Chomsky's op-ed then reveals how Washington provided $12 million in military aid to Tunisia and how there has long been a gap in the Arab world between what the masses believe and what Arab elites profess in public:

"Unmentioned is what the population thinks – easily discovered.

"According to polls released by the Brookings Institution in August, some Arabs agree with Washington and Western commentators that Iran is a threat: 10 percent.

"In contrast, they regard the U.S. and Israel as the major threats (77 percent; 88 percent).

"Arab opinion is so hostile to Washington’s policies that a majority (57 percent) think regional security would be enhanced if Iran had nuclear weapons...

"The dictators support us. Their subjects can be ignored – unless they break their chains, and then policy must be adjusted."

Arab chains have broken in Tunesia.
Are breaking in Egypt...
If Saudi chains are next?

Good ol Chomsky. Who beleives that war in all cases is bad. Unless of course your fighting against the united states or trying to premote religious extreamism or socialism. Then he is fine with it.

Whatever the Anti-American Chomsky states is shit, or it will result in shit for America.

Chomsky is a certified Commie Arsehole.

IOW, a total Piece of Shit.

 

[georgephillip]

Agree or disagree?

"One 1989 comparison has some validity: Romania, where Washington maintained its support for Nicolae Ceausescu, the most vicious of the East European dictators, until the allegiance became untenable. Then Washington hailed his overthrow while the past was erased.

"That is a standard pattern: Ferdinand Marcos, Jean-Claude Duvalier, Chun Doo Hwan, Suharto and many other useful gangsters.

"It may be under way in the case of Hosni Mubarak, along with routine efforts to try to ensure that a successor regime will not veer far from the approved path.

"The current hope appears to be Mubarak loyalist Gen. Omar Suleiman, just named Egypt’s vice president. Suleiman, the longtime head of the intelligence services, is despised by the rebelling public almost as much as the dictator himself."

The Arab World

 

[waltky]

Tunisian revolution hittin' a rough patch...

Tunisian police chief fires on crowd, kills 2
Feb 5, 11 -- Police fired at an angry crowd of 1,000 attacking the police station in the northwestern town of Kef on Saturday, killing two people and injuring 17 others, the Interior Ministry said.

The official Tunisian news agency said the crowd had turned on police after the police chief "abused" a member of the community. A local journalist said the police chief slapped a woman during a demonstration, triggering the violence between police and citizens. The journalist said that two other people died on the way to the hospital, but that information could not be officially confirmed. The journalist, reached by telephone, asked not to be identified for professional reasons.

Regional prefect Mohamed Najib Tlijali, calling for calm on a local radio station, said that the police official was himself hospitalized but under arrest. The clash pitting police against citizens appeared to be among the most serious since this small North African country began a process of moving out of a 23-year-long dictatorship with the flight into exile of President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali on Jan. 14 following a month of demonstrations.

A statement by the Interior Ministry, which is in charge of police, said that some 1,000 citizens threw stones and small firebombs at the police station in a surge of anger after the "abuse" by the police chief. The crowd burned two cars, one a police vehicle, a ministry statement said. Police fired tear gas, then fired into the air in a vain effort to disperse the crowd, then began firing on demonstrators, the Interior Ministry said.

The statement did not specify the nature of the abuse by the police chief that triggered the incident, but the eyewitness said a woman was slapped. The ministry confirmed the police chief was under arrest and said investigators had been sent to Kef. Tunisia remains tense since demonstrations pushed Ben Ali into exile in Saudi Arabia. Police, in particular, were long distrusted by the population because they carried out the repressive policies of Ben Ali's regime.

The demonstrations that set of Tunisia's "people's revolution" began in the nation's heartland when an unemployed man in the central western town of Sidi Bouzid set himself afire Dec. 17 after police confiscated his fruit and vegetable cart because he had no legal authorization to sell. A woman police officer reportedly slapped the man in a major affront to his dignity. The Tunisian uprising has since spread to Egypt where tens of thousands have demonstrated for nearly two weeks calling for the ouster of President Hosni Mubarak.

Source

See also:

Tunisia Police Station Burned Down...

Tunisian minister suspends ex-ruling party
February 05, 2011 | Tunisia's interior minister on Sunday suspended all activities of the country's former ruling party amid the most serious protests since the country's autocratic ruler fled into exile.

Fahrat Rajhi suspended all meetings of the Democratic Constitutional Rally, known as the RCD, and ordered all party offices or meeting places it owns closed and intends to seek its dissolution, a ministry statement said. The official TAP news agency, which carried the statement, said the measure was taken because of the "extreme urgency" of the situation, a reference to deadly protests, and to "preserve the higher interests of the nation."

The announcement came hours after crowds pillaged, then burned a police station in the northwestern city of Kef a day after police shot and killed at least two demonstrators. It was the worst violence in Tunisia since its autocratic president, Zine El Abidine Ben Ali, was forced into exile Jan. 14 after a month of nationwide anti-government protests. Deadly protests have also erupted in other corners of this North African country, currently run by a caretaker government.

Authorities have been cleaning out traces of the Ben Ali regime, notably eliminating figures connected with the former ruling party — but not fast enough for many citizens. The RCD's activities were not just limited to the political scene. Under Ben Ali's 23 years in power, the party had tentacles in all aspects of Tunisian life. Among other distrusted entities is the police force, which instilled fear as it carried out the repressive policies of Ben Ali. The move by the interior minister, ultimately in charge of police, could amount to a double gesture to shore up the "people's revolution" in the eyes of many Tunisians.

Tunisian minister suspends ex-ruling party - FoxNews.com

 

[georgephillip]

Ben Ali was the latest in an unbroken line of dictators stretching back to 1956 when Tunisia won its "independence" from France. Currently, the official unemployment rate hovers around 13%, however it could be much higher.

No jobs leaves plenty of people with plenty of time to protest against dictators. When 26 year old produce vendor, Mohamed Bouazizi, rebelled by setting himself ablaze after authorities seized his cart, Tunisians had their martyr.

Apparently, WikiLeaks also helped fan the flames:

"What's the WikiLeaks connection?

"Foreign Policy's Christopher Alexander explains:

"Shortly before the December protests began, WikiLeaks released internal US State Department communications in which the American ambassador described Ben Ali as aging, out of touch, and surrounded by corruption.

"Given Ben Ali's reputation as a stalwart US ally, it mattered greatly to many Tunisians—particularly to politically engaged Tunisians who are plugged into social media—that American officials are saying the same things about Ben Ali that they themselves say about him.

"These revelations contributed to an environment that was ripe for a wave of protest that gathered broad support."

No doubt Arab and US elites are hoping to replace the old boss with a new boss and get on with the plunder and looting.

Maybe the internet will make that pattern of socializing cost while privatizing profit much more expensive for the rich?

 

[waltky]

He could very well be right - even if they could get all the reforms they want today, it would take 10-20 years for their societies to 'adjust' to democracy and recover...

Medvedev Sees ‘Fires for Decades’ in Arab World
Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Tuesday predicted decades of instability in the Arab world if protesters, whom he called fanatics, come to power, adding no such scenario will be permitted at home.

Medvedev's words fall in sharp contrast with the European Union, which said in a statement on Monday that it "deplores the violence" and "repression" against the pro-democracy protesters by authorities in one of the troublespots, Libya. Speaking at a security meeting in the Caucasus city of Vladikavkaz, Medvedev didn't name countries, but he was referring to the crisis in the Middle East and North Africa -- which has brought down governments in Tunisia and Egypt and sparked protests in Libya, Yemen, Bahrain, Iran, Morocco and Jordan.

"These states are difficult, and it is quite probable that hard times are ahead, including the arrival at power of fanatics. This will mean fires for decades and the spread of extremism," Medvedev said in televised comments. Any attempts to repeat the unrest in Russia would be quashed, he said. "They have prepared such a scenario for us before, and now more than ever they will try and realize it. In any case, this scenario won't succeed," he said, without identifying the people he considers could threaten the Kremlin.

Russia has crushed Islamist separatists in two wars in Chechnya in the last 15 years, and continues to battle a lingering insurgency in the wider Caucasus region. The region is the epicenter of terrorism in Russia, with most of the high-profile attacks in recent years claimed by or attributed to Caucasus rebels.

In the past Medvedev also has warned domestic political opponents that they won't be permitted to "rock the boat," and he has continued the policy of his tough predecessor, Vladimir Putin, in sanctioning the violent dispersal of anti-government protests. Opposition activists have been beaten and imprisoned under their rule. Putin, who wields greater power despite holding lower rank, warned demonstrators in a September newspaper interview that "you will be beaten upside the head with a truncheon. And that's it."

Source

 

[georgephillip]

It seems like any new Democracies in the Middle East will be top-down in structure, at least for the first generation. I'm not sure how that will play out with the large numbers of young, secular and educated Arabs who see taking control of their own natural resources as a primary objective.

Economic class seems to be a driving force in recent uprisings in Tunisia, Egypt and Madison. If class war goes viral across the US and the globe, those of us still alive in 10-20 years might look back on today's US political leaders and see fanatics.

If the class war ever makes it to Russia, I don't expect to live long enough to see it. It's always seemed to me that a North American Economic Union consisting of Mexico, the US and Canada allied with Russia would be an effective counterbalance to India and China, but I doubt very much the gangsters running the former four countries are willing to share.

 

[Trajan]

"'The Arab world is on fire,' al-Jazeera reported on Jan. 27, while throughout the region, Western allies 'are quickly losing their influence.'

hello...we lost that years ago.....glad hes catching up.

 

[Trajan]

"'The Arab world is on fire,' al-Jazeera reported on Jan. 27, while throughout the region, Western allies 'are quickly losing their influence.'

"The shock wave was set in motion by the dramatic uprising in Tunisia that drove out a Western-backed dictator, with reverberations especially in Egypt, where demonstrators overwhelmed a dictator’s brutal police...

"The vibrant democracy movement in Tunisia was directed against 'a police state, with little freedom of expression or association, and serious human rights problems,' ruled by a dictator whose family was hated for their venality.

"This was the assessment by U.S. Ambassador Robert Godec in a July 2009 cable released by WikiLeaks.

Chomsky's op-ed then reveals how Washington provided $12 million in military aid to Tunisia and how there has long been a gap in the Arab world between what the masses believe and what Arab elites profess in public:

"Unmentioned is what the population thinks – easily discovered.

"According to polls released by the Brookings Institution in August, some Arabs agree with Washington and Western commentators that Iran is a threat: 10 percent.

"In contrast, they regard the U.S. and Israel as the major threats (77 percent; 88 percent).

"Arab opinion is so hostile to Washington’s policies that a majority (57 percent) think regional security would be enhanced if Iran had nuclear weapons...

"The dictators support us. Their subjects can be ignored – unless they break their chains, and then policy must be adjusted."

Arab chains have broken in Tunesia.
Are breaking in Egypt...
If Saudi chains are next?

Good ol Chomsky. Who beleives that war in all cases is bad. Unless of course your fighting against the united states or trying to premote religious extreamism or socialism. Then he is fine with it.

"Chomsky was voted the leading living public intellectual in The 2005 Global Intellectuals Poll conducted by the British magazine Prospect. He reacted, saying 'I don't pay a lot of attention to polls'.[116]

"In a list compiled by the magazine New Statesman in 2006, he was voted seventh in the list of 'Heroes of our time'".

Chomsky - Wiki

It is widely believed he's the eighth most widely quoted author of all time. The only living writer on a top ten list that starts with the Bible.

Shakespeare, Freud, Marx, Chaucer, Cicero...Chomsky...

Can you tell me when he has supported wars of religious extremism?

Goood...george thx! I am sooooo impressed!

does he crap gold cufflinks to?

 

[Avatar4321]

It seems like any new Democracies in the Middle East will be top-down in structure, at least for the first generation. I'm not sure how that will play out with the large numbers of young, secular and educated Arabs who see taking control of their own natural resources as a primary objective.

Economic class seems to be a driving force in recent uprisings in Tunisia, Egypt and Madison. If class war goes viral across the US and the globe, those of us still alive in 10-20 years might look back on today's US political leaders and see fanatics.

If the class war ever makes it to Russia, I don't expect to live long enough to see it. It's always seemed to me that a North American Economic Union consisting of Mexico, the US and Canada allied with Russia would be an effective counterbalance to India and China, but I doubt very much the gangsters running the former four countries are willing to share.

There wont be any new Democracies in the middle east.

Top down structures arent representative.

 

[hipeter924]

It seems like any new Democracies in the Middle East will be top-down in structure, at least for the first generation. I'm not sure how that will play out with the large numbers of young, secular and educated Arabs who see taking control of their own natural resources as a primary objective.

Economic class seems to be a driving force in recent uprisings in Tunisia, Egypt and Madison. If class war goes viral across the US and the globe, those of us still alive in 10-20 years might look back on today's US political leaders and see fanatics.

If the class war ever makes it to Russia, I don't expect to live long enough to see it. It's always seemed to me that a North American Economic Union consisting of Mexico, the US and Canada allied with Russia would be an effective counterbalance to India and China, but I doubt very much the gangsters running the former four countries are willing to share.

There wont be any new Democracies in the middle east.

Top down structures arent representative.

The composition of the new governments will depend on the religious and political groups that eventually take control, if you ask me I think that these new democracies will eventually be semi-democracies (like Iraqi with it's Sharia Law constitution). But some revolutions obviously will just collapse and be taken over by a military dictator in the end, just like in previous regime changes in the middle east.

 

[georgephillip]

"'The Arab world is on fire,' al-Jazeera reported on Jan. 27, while throughout the region, Western allies 'are quickly losing their influence.'

hello...we lost that years ago.....glad hes catching up.

He's way ahead, as usual:

"The shock wave was set in motion by the dramatic uprising in Tunisia that drove out a Western-backed dictator, with reverberations especially in Egypt, where demonstrators overwhelmed a dictator’s brutal police."

Do you think the rich are losing their global grip?

Noam Chomsky...

 

[georgephillip]

Good ol Chomsky. Who beleives that war in all cases is bad. Unless of course your fighting against the united states or trying to premote religious extreamism or socialism. Then he is fine with it.

"Chomsky was voted the leading living public intellectual in The 2005 Global Intellectuals Poll conducted by the British magazine Prospect. He reacted, saying 'I don't pay a lot of attention to polls'.[116]

"In a list compiled by the magazine New Statesman in 2006, he was voted seventh in the list of 'Heroes of our time'".

Chomsky - Wiki

It is widely believed he's the eighth most widely quoted author of all time. The only living writer on a top ten list that starts with the Bible.

Shakespeare, Freud, Marx, Chaucer, Cicero...Chomsky...

Can you tell me when he has supported wars of religious extremism?

Goood...george thx! I am sooooo impressed!

does he crap gold cufflinks to?

I thought that was Ron Paul's part???????

You must find the Bay Area a very lonely place.

Have you ever considered Arizona?

 

[georgephillip]

It seems like any new Democracies in the Middle East will be top-down in structure, at least for the first generation. I'm not sure how that will play out with the large numbers of young, secular and educated Arabs who see taking control of their own natural resources as a primary objective.

Economic class seems to be a driving force in recent uprisings in Tunisia, Egypt and Madison. If class war goes viral across the US and the globe, those of us still alive in 10-20 years might look back on today's US political leaders and see fanatics.

If the class war ever makes it to Russia, I don't expect to live long enough to see it. It's always seemed to me that a North American Economic Union consisting of Mexico, the US and Canada allied with Russia would be an effective counterbalance to India and China, but I doubt very much the gangsters running the former four countries are willing to share.

There wont be any new Democracies in the middle east.

Top down structures arent representative.

Would you say the Republican and Democratic Parties are top-down structures?

If so, do you think the teaparty will change the Republican establishment or be changed by it?