China, Russia in largest-ever joint naval drills

[Montrovant]

As I understand it, it's the highest tax in the history of the world. In the future it will take food off the American family's table, and farmers will not work for nothing, although some of them say they already do, as they lose their farms often in droughts, drug/alcohol abuse, and floods.

Sorry what I think disturbs you so.

So no, no actual evidence. Gotcha.

Sorry my asking for evidence is such a difficult thing for you to wrap your head around.

So sorry, Montrovant. I guess I thought you had read the opinions and knew why I said that. My bad. Here you go:

High Court Upholds Health Care Law


Quote:
The Supreme Court upheld the health care reform law on Thursday in a ruling in which conservative Chief Justice John Roberts sided with the liberal wing and spelled out ways to keep the highly controversial law within the bounds of the Constitution. The ruling vindicates President Obama’s signature domestic policy initiative, even if it doesn’t stop the political debate over the sweeping Affordable Care Act.
The 5-4 ruling lets stand the mandate – the requirement that just about everyone carry health insurance or pay a fine. But the ruling calls the fine a tax, allowing the law to escape arguments that it violates the Commerce Clause of the Constitution.


Josh Mandel says Obamacare will ultimately be 'the biggest tax in history'


Quote:
Ohio Treasurer Josh Mandel joined other Republicans in calling for its repeal, saying the decision "sets the stage for the November election." He identified the law as a pivotal issue in his campaign to unseat incumbent U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown.

Mandel issued a statement on the day of the decision asserting that Brown had voted "for what will likely go down as the biggest tax increase in history."


__________________

Wait. You just provided a link that claims the ACA won't even be close to the biggest tax hike in US history, let alone the history of the world.

You also provided absolutely no evidence that it IS going to be the largest tax hike in history.

The only thing that at all supported your claim, in fact, was a single quote from the treasurer of Ohio who says the ACA, "will likely go down as the biggest tax increase in history.". I can't tell from the article the context of the quote, so it's entirely possible he was only speaking of US history, not world history. And he even says it is likely, not assured.

So, again, I will ask : do you have any evidence that the ACA will be the biggest tax hike in the history of the world, as you have claimed multiple times?

I'm not defending the ACA or asking you to explain why you oppose it. I don't care in the context of this conversation. The only thing I'm asking is for you to back up your claim of this being the largest tax hike in world history.

 

[freedombecki]

So no, no actual evidence. Gotcha.

Sorry my asking for evidence is such a difficult thing for you to wrap your head around.

So sorry, Montrovant. I guess I thought you had read the opinions and knew why I said that. My bad. Here you go:

High Court Upholds Health Care Law


Quote:
The Supreme Court upheld the health care reform law on Thursday in a ruling in which conservative Chief Justice John Roberts sided with the liberal wing and spelled out ways to keep the highly controversial law within the bounds of the Constitution. The ruling vindicates President Obama’s signature domestic policy initiative, even if it doesn’t stop the political debate over the sweeping Affordable Care Act.
The 5-4 ruling lets stand the mandate – the requirement that just about everyone carry health insurance or pay a fine. But the ruling calls the fine a tax, allowing the law to escape arguments that it violates the Commerce Clause of the Constitution.


Josh Mandel says Obamacare will ultimately be 'the biggest tax in history'


Quote:
Ohio Treasurer Josh Mandel joined other Republicans in calling for its repeal, saying the decision "sets the stage for the November election." He identified the law as a pivotal issue in his campaign to unseat incumbent U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown.

Mandel issued a statement on the day of the decision asserting that Brown had voted "for what will likely go down as the biggest tax increase in history."


__________________

Wait. You just provided a link that claims the ACA won't even be close to the biggest tax hike in US history, let alone the history of the world.

You also provided absolutely no evidence that it IS going to be the largest tax hike in history.

The only thing that at all supported your claim, in fact, was a single quote from the treasurer of Ohio who says the ACA, "will likely go down as the biggest tax increase in history.". I can't tell from the article the context of the quote, so it's entirely possible he was only speaking of US history, not world history. And he even says it is likely, not assured.

So, again, I will ask : do you have any evidence that the ACA will be the biggest tax hike in the history of the world, as you have claimed multiple times?

I'm not defending the ACA or asking you to explain why you oppose it. I don't care in the context of this conversation. The only thing I'm asking is for you to back up your claim of this being the largest tax hike in world history.

You got MY opinion of credible proof.

Now who's moving the goalposts.

 

[Montrovant]

So sorry, Montrovant. I guess I thought you had read the opinions and knew why I said that. My bad. Here you go:

Wait. You just provided a link that claims the ACA won't even be close to the biggest tax hike in US history, let alone the history of the world.

You also provided absolutely no evidence that it IS going to be the largest tax hike in history.

The only thing that at all supported your claim, in fact, was a single quote from the treasurer of Ohio who says the ACA, "will likely go down as the biggest tax increase in history.". I can't tell from the article the context of the quote, so it's entirely possible he was only speaking of US history, not world history. And he even says it is likely, not assured.

So, again, I will ask : do you have any evidence that the ACA will be the biggest tax hike in the history of the world, as you have claimed multiple times?

I'm not defending the ACA or asking you to explain why you oppose it. I don't care in the context of this conversation. The only thing I'm asking is for you to back up your claim of this being the largest tax hike in world history.

You got MY opinion of credible proof.

Now who's moving the goalposts.

Let me be sure I'm clear.

Your opinion is that a quote from the Ohio treasurer that the ACA will likely be the biggest tax hike in history is credible evidence it will be? A quote which is not given with context, so that we cannot see if the speaker meant in US or world history? A quote from an article which gives figures and estimates to show that the ACA will not be the biggest tax hike in US history, let alone the world?

Your opinion is that unsubstantiated hearsay is credible evidence?

I want to be completely certain I'm understanding you.

I have not moved any goalposts. I just assumed, apparently wrongly, that you would provide more than someone else's totally unsubstantiated and not in context claim as some sort of evidence.

That you have provided no comparisons to other nations or other times and the tax hikes they may have experienced, nor even given any evidence of the tax hikes in just US history, baffles me. How can you have any evidence this is the largest tax hike in the history of the world without any, you know, evidence?

 

[freedombecki]

I presented my case.

If you care to present a certifiable rebuttal, go for it. The facts that support me are all over the net. It's not my job to provide a rebuttal for you, aka debate principles.

But don't tell me I moved my goal posts when I merely put the horse before the cart.

Since my case is all out there, where's yours? You want me to do that for you?

You're a little to eager to smear someone who has done nothing but support you since you got here.

The ball is in your court, and you can't play it, because frankly my dear, I don't think you give a damn.

That's not going to be my headache now or ever. Your rebuttal of beating up the messenger is no excuse for a debate rebuttal. Finding facts too hard?

Well, kiss my grits.

 

[Montrovant]

WTF are you even talking about?

Look, this all started because you claimed, more than once, that the ACA is the largest tax hike in the history of the world. That is a long history, with many nations, many taxes levied, etc.

I said that is a bold claim. It is. It's not really a claim of opinion, it's one of numbers. Admittedly, one might look at different numbers or percentages to come to the conclusion, but it's still one that's based on some kind of figures.

You didn't provide any figures. You didn't give a reason for the claim.

I tried to get you to give me some evidence that the claim is true (or, as seemed more likely to me, have you simply say it was a bit of an exaggeration). You didn't. You went on about why the ACA is bad, how people cannot understand that it is a tax, and other things that in no way provided evidence that it is the largest tax hike in the history of the world.

You then provided a link which led to a site showing how it is NOT the largest tax hike in the history of the world, or even the US, and somehow claim that is evidence that it IS.

You have not provided any numbers about just how large a tax hike you think it is, what you are basing that on (total dollars, percentage of gdp, or some other formula), nor provided any numbers or sources on the history of tax hikes the world over.

So, basically, you've provided one quote from someone saying it is likely the largest tax hike in the world, a bunch of information saying it is NOT the largest tax hike, and now you're saying that my insistence on evidence you are not providing is some kind of smear.

You're bringing up rules of debate, when you have made a claim without providing evidence to substantiate that claim. Yet you think it should be up to me to debunk your unsubstantiated claim. I don't even know what you are basing the claim on!

But since you are insistent, despite having given me a link which already tries to debunk the claim you made, here's another :
Biggest Tax Increase in History?

Again, that's not for the world, only the US.

If you were just exaggerating with the original claim, that's fine. I doubt any of us could accurately list all the tax hikes that have occurred in the history of the world. Perhaps you only meant in the US. And perhaps you meant the largest tax hike simply in total dollars. The things is, I don't know, because you refuse to say. That I'm unwilling to accept your claim at face value without evidence is not smearing you. It's trying to get some clarification. It's asking for a bit more than 'because I say so', or even 'because this person says so'. If you want to consider that some kind of attack against you, well, there's not much I can do about it.

 

[Vikrant]

I was reading a report few days ago which struck me as interesting due to the fact that China now ranks third among Russian opinion as a friendly country.

 

[DrainBamage]

Keep joking, Unkotare. They are training for the future invasion of the USA. You've got a Chinese base in Mexico - 60,000 troops - ( google maps confirmed the location as well as locals ) training with Russians and other S. American troops right now. Recently they have been seen by eye witnesses doing training exercises in the desert and along the border..

Add to this you've got more Russian, Chinese and German troops on Canadian soil than Canadian soldiers, Ditto for Alaska..

Very troubling situation. I don't believe America has much time left now. - Jeri

Hello! Curious = almost four years later, are you still maintaining there are 60,000 Chinese troops hiding in Mexico about to invade USA?