Child Support is unfair

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Aristotle, Oct 6, 2012.

  1. Aristotle
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    Aristotle Senior Member

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    Ah yes I've shown how child support is unfair. To responsible men both in marriages and to a non-custodial parent

    Koshergrl what exactly do you do?
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  2. koshergrl
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    koshergrl Diamond Member

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    No, you haven't. You've shown that there are people who think their particular cases are unfair. And they might be.
     
  3. Aristotle
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    Aristotle Senior Member

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    Yes...Just particular cases out how many in the U.S?

    Anyway I asked what you do professionally that makes you an expert in family law. You avoided that question. Anyway I will leave my thread with this quote:

     
  4. koshergrl
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    koshergrl Diamond Member

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    I already addressed that, and I listed my creds earlier in the thread.
     
  5. PaulS1950
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    PaulS1950 Senior Member

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    Koshergrl,
    If you are talking about your first post after mine, you did not address it, you dismissed it. There is no way you could address it because you have none of the information in the file or the court records. I did fight for custody - in spite of what my lawyer said. I got two of the counselors to testify about my ex - and it was all ignored by the judge. He granted custody to the addict.
    I can accept that working with the worst of dead-beat dads can taint you - lets face it, you have little contact with the fathers that dutifully pay their support. My bet is that you rarely check out the living conditions of most of the kids involved because you are too busy dealing with the dead-beat dads.
    I get that - cops have issues with trusting people who are not cops because they instantly assume they are being lied to. They deal with slime every day too. You should at least admit that most dads (the ones you have no contact with ) are good about paying the court ordered amount. You should also at least entertain the idea that some of the fathers do more than the court ordered support. It happens a lot more often than you are willing to admit.
    I know that there are good moms out there but I also know there are lousey mothers, abusive mothers just as often as there are lousey dads and abusive dads. People are people and there are good and bad in all groups. You seem to forget that there are good dads.
     
  6. koshergrl
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    koshergrl Diamond Member

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    I'm not a cop.

    In THIS thread, the contention is that the system is woefully unfair to wonderful fathers who always pay more than their fair share of support and who have no idea why they don't have custody of their children....the mothers are all flaky, abusive, addicted, slutty, and neglectful. The non custodial dads are all sterling examples of everything a father ought to be and yet their income is unfairly depleted and they are hideously abused by everyone around them.

    I don't buy it. When did you initially petition the court for custody? Were you the primary caregiver when you split? Why did you split? What was the situation of the children when you were together? Do you have a criminal record? Did your family have CSD involvement before you split? How much child support do you pay, and has it always been current? What do you earn? Was your wife working when you split up, and is she working now? Has CSD been involved with the children since you split?

    And again, I've never said that all non-custodial dads are scum. I don't believe that, I've worked with dads attempting to get custody who were great dads, and still had difficulty getting custody...

    But despite the fact that they hadn't necessarily done anything WRONG, they just weren't awarded custody. The courts decided (and it was reasonable) that although mom might have been a bitch, she was the one who had always been most involved with the kids and who was most likely to be able to continue with the least amount of upheaval in their lives. Dad wasn't happy, but that's the way it goes when you essentially hand over all care and control of the kids during your marriage..and then the marriage doesn't work out. Care and control is going to most likely stay right where it was.
     
  7. PaulS1950
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    PaulS1950 Senior Member

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    I don't expect yo to "buy it".
    I petitioned the court for custody when I filed for divorce. I was the primary caregiver up to that point. My wife was gone a lot the last three years of our marriage and her addiction nearly cost me the home that we lived in. I filed for divorce when her addiction became a danger to my family and our lives. She left with the kids to "visit her mom" and "get her head on straight" but she dropped the kids off at her sister's (unknown to me) and had an affair with a guy who kept her well supplied (not the first time) with opiates. She was admitted to a hospital where they tricked into signing an admitting form to a rehab center. When that happened I found out where the children were and brought them home. The next day I filed for divorce and custody. The children were in school, had friends and did a lot of things with me. Mom was too high to do much of anything when she was home. I paid $400 in support, my wife never worked - it cut into her drug use. In the 11 years that I paid support I was late twice, when my daughter was almost 17 she moved in with some friends (a pastor and his family). I told OSE that my daughter was not living with her mother and said that I would be sending support directly to the child. They said I could send whatever I wanted to to the child but I still had to pay support to the ex. I did. I have no criminal record and at the time I was making around $40000 a year.
    I don't know what CSD is but if it is the same a child protective services, to the best of my knowledge they never chose to get involved even after repeated calls and letters. By repeated I mean that I contacted them many times a year over a seven year span. That is when I found out that my ex had threatened to kill herself (to the kids) if they ever left to live with me. Before we split there was no government involvement at all. I have a large and supportive family that gave me the support I needed to keep going.
    The only time my ex worked was in conjunction with a nurse training program which fell through when she was caught taking the patients pain pills. The self admitted into a detox center to avoid prosecution. This was a couple years after our divorce.

    I don't expect you to change your judgement because although you are not a cop you do deal with the dead-beat dads and don't get to see the rest of the world. Some of us are better parents than the courts give us credit for.

    as I said earlier my kids are both grown and have families of their own so this is in the distant past. We all turned out OK except for the ex as she is still abusing pain pills and has multiple health problems as a result. Kidney, liver and bowel problems - some life threatening at times. She has been known to undergo surgery just to get the pain meds and then she keeps taking them as prescribed from many different doctors and over the internet. It would be a lie to call her a functioning addict because she rarely leaves her home, has no friends and little family support.
     
  8. koshergrl
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    koshergrl Diamond Member

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    I honestly don't know why you think I don't see the rest of the world.

    It's comments like that that make me doubt the veracity of the rest of your testimony. It's based on nothing and it's disparaging. I have been in court with fathers seeking custody as well. And in fact, have helped win custody for fathers who had kids placed with unfit/addicted mothers.

    And again, I know it happens that the wrong person gets custody sometimes. But the fact that your wife eloped with the kids and established herself as primary care provider has nothing to do with the system being geared towards mothers.

    But your story is still confusing me..you say you filed for divorce and custody...after mom took off with the kids? While she was out of the house with the kids? And you glean over the part about her being home with them while you were together, so it sounds like she WAS the primary care provider, if you were working and she was home with them, and taking them around with her and such. It sounds like you filed for divorce/custody when she was out of the home with the children...no CSD involvement so it doesn't sound like the kids were neglected at all...then you skip forward 11 years..so I presume you weren't awarded custody at the time of the divorce; no csd involvement so no documented abuse/neglect....

    It just sounds like a typical contested case. I don't see anything there to indicate bias on behalf of mothers in general.

    In all the time she was addicted and taking care of the kids in your home, did you guys have any dom violence incidents?
     
  9. PaulS1950
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    PaulS1950 Senior Member

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    She took the kids with her to visit mom - which didn't happen. The kids were dropped off at her sister's house and she didn't elope - she partied with a guy who kept her drugs available - while our kids were at her sisters. I was sending living money to the tune of $150 a week so the kids were not a burden on her mother.... but she was using that money for herself. It wasn't until I found out where the kids were and brought them home that I filed for divorce. At that time she was in detox. I paid her sister back for supporting my kids (what a joke that was) They looked like little orphans in dirty clothes and no shoes. They were used to being treated like real people by me.

    Is a mother who lies in bed all day a primary care giver?

    Or is the dad that fixes meals, works with the kids on their homework, takes them to the zoo, park and fishing the primary caregiver. Is it the dad who does the laundry, dishes and puts them to bed each night or the mother who leaves and comes back too high to even be a person?

    Maybe my jumping around in the time line confused you.
    1. I took care of my kids , they went to school in the morning after breakfast with lunches I made for them, they came home at 3:00 after school to a house that I left clean for them. They did their homework and when I got home we spend a few moments together just talking about how the day went. I checked the final homework results. I fixed dinner, fed them made sure the were bathed and ready for bed. On the weekend we did all kinds of stuff together. Mom was welcome to join but rarely did. I have a lot of wonderful memories of those years with my kids.
    After I got them home from my ex's sister is when I filed for divorce. They were with me and the ex was in detox sobering up and refusing to give up her prescription meds. I filed for custody and a divorce at the same time that she was in a detox center half a state away. The problem is that after 30 days she got out and got a lawyer to draw up papers allowing her to take the kids - there was no court order yet so the court in Yakima gave her temp custody. She came and got the kids and a quick call to my lawyer and he said I had to let her have them. So my hell began.
    I never reported her violent side. I thought I was protecting the kids. I was the only one she ever hit and I got help from a therapist so I could deal with it without returning the blows.
    Anyway, I had filed for divorce and custody but the court in Yakima granted her temporary custody until the final judgement was made. When the final judgement was handed down she was rewarded half the value of the house, the better of the two cars (which I had to complete the payments on) and those belongings in the house that were hers and the kids - she had been granted custody! She cleaned the house out - leaving me one plate, one pot and one set of flatware. She even took the washer and dryer.
    I walked into that empty house and realized that my kids were gone. I looked into the visitation section and saw that I could see them every other weekend and I was devistated. They were and still are my life. skipping forward 11 years my kids and I are reunited and it was tortuous for all of us I think, until I pulled out the photo album and the copies of the letters. we talked about all the cards I sent and they were clueless. I got out my journal and we laughed and cried together until it was very late.
    I have to stop. sorry. I can't relive this
     
  10. koshergrl
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    koshergrl Diamond Member

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    Anyway, that still doesn't prove that the system is biased against fathers. The courts hear stories all the time about how horrible the other parent is, and they have to make a determination based on the evidence they have...and sometimes it happens that they find one party more believable than another, or they toss the proverbial coin.

    You say she laid around in bed all day and she might have...but that is just you saying that. You say there were dv incidents that you didn't report..but that's you reporting it....she could say that you abused her, or that you wouldn't let her do anything...my point isn't that you're a bad dad who deserved to have his kids taken away. My point is that your story, which is sad, is not evidence of any bias against fathers.
     

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