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Child Support is unfair
- Thread starter Aristotle
- Start date
Aristotle
Senior Member
- Sep 9, 2012
- 1,599
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- Thread starter
- #423
No, you haven't. You've shown that there are people who think their particular cases are unfair. And they might be.
Yes...Just particular cases out how many in the U.S?
Anyway I asked what you do professionally that makes you an expert in family law. You avoided that question. Anyway I will leave my thread with this quote:
Koshergrl,
Why is it that your posts all have the common theme that the dads are always the bad guys?
We are just people too. Most of us pay the support to our children regardless of whether mom is or is not providing a decent home. Some don't - some women are lousy mothers or abusive or whatever. People are people. There are good and bad in every aspect of life. No group, No catagory is free from bad.
You sound a bit vindictive....
PaulS1950
Senior Member
Koshergrl,
If you are talking about your first post after mine, you did not address it, you dismissed it. There is no way you could address it because you have none of the information in the file or the court records. I did fight for custody - in spite of what my lawyer said. I got two of the counselors to testify about my ex - and it was all ignored by the judge. He granted custody to the addict.
I can accept that working with the worst of dead-beat dads can taint you - lets face it, you have little contact with the fathers that dutifully pay their support. My bet is that you rarely check out the living conditions of most of the kids involved because you are too busy dealing with the dead-beat dads.
I get that - cops have issues with trusting people who are not cops because they instantly assume they are being lied to. They deal with slime every day too. You should at least admit that most dads (the ones you have no contact with ) are good about paying the court ordered amount. You should also at least entertain the idea that some of the fathers do more than the court ordered support. It happens a lot more often than you are willing to admit.
I know that there are good moms out there but I also know there are lousey mothers, abusive mothers just as often as there are lousey dads and abusive dads. People are people and there are good and bad in all groups. You seem to forget that there are good dads.
If you are talking about your first post after mine, you did not address it, you dismissed it. There is no way you could address it because you have none of the information in the file or the court records. I did fight for custody - in spite of what my lawyer said. I got two of the counselors to testify about my ex - and it was all ignored by the judge. He granted custody to the addict.
I can accept that working with the worst of dead-beat dads can taint you - lets face it, you have little contact with the fathers that dutifully pay their support. My bet is that you rarely check out the living conditions of most of the kids involved because you are too busy dealing with the dead-beat dads.
I get that - cops have issues with trusting people who are not cops because they instantly assume they are being lied to. They deal with slime every day too. You should at least admit that most dads (the ones you have no contact with ) are good about paying the court ordered amount. You should also at least entertain the idea that some of the fathers do more than the court ordered support. It happens a lot more often than you are willing to admit.
I know that there are good moms out there but I also know there are lousey mothers, abusive mothers just as often as there are lousey dads and abusive dads. People are people and there are good and bad in all groups. You seem to forget that there are good dads.
- Aug 4, 2011
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I'm not a cop.
In THIS thread, the contention is that the system is woefully unfair to wonderful fathers who always pay more than their fair share of support and who have no idea why they don't have custody of their children....the mothers are all flaky, abusive, addicted, slutty, and neglectful. The non custodial dads are all sterling examples of everything a father ought to be and yet their income is unfairly depleted and they are hideously abused by everyone around them.
I don't buy it. When did you initially petition the court for custody? Were you the primary caregiver when you split? Why did you split? What was the situation of the children when you were together? Do you have a criminal record? Did your family have CSD involvement before you split? How much child support do you pay, and has it always been current? What do you earn? Was your wife working when you split up, and is she working now? Has CSD been involved with the children since you split?
And again, I've never said that all non-custodial dads are scum. I don't believe that, I've worked with dads attempting to get custody who were great dads, and still had difficulty getting custody...
But despite the fact that they hadn't necessarily done anything WRONG, they just weren't awarded custody. The courts decided (and it was reasonable) that although mom might have been a bitch, she was the one who had always been most involved with the kids and who was most likely to be able to continue with the least amount of upheaval in their lives. Dad wasn't happy, but that's the way it goes when you essentially hand over all care and control of the kids during your marriage..and then the marriage doesn't work out. Care and control is going to most likely stay right where it was.
In THIS thread, the contention is that the system is woefully unfair to wonderful fathers who always pay more than their fair share of support and who have no idea why they don't have custody of their children....the mothers are all flaky, abusive, addicted, slutty, and neglectful. The non custodial dads are all sterling examples of everything a father ought to be and yet their income is unfairly depleted and they are hideously abused by everyone around them.
I don't buy it. When did you initially petition the court for custody? Were you the primary caregiver when you split? Why did you split? What was the situation of the children when you were together? Do you have a criminal record? Did your family have CSD involvement before you split? How much child support do you pay, and has it always been current? What do you earn? Was your wife working when you split up, and is she working now? Has CSD been involved with the children since you split?
And again, I've never said that all non-custodial dads are scum. I don't believe that, I've worked with dads attempting to get custody who were great dads, and still had difficulty getting custody...
But despite the fact that they hadn't necessarily done anything WRONG, they just weren't awarded custody. The courts decided (and it was reasonable) that although mom might have been a bitch, she was the one who had always been most involved with the kids and who was most likely to be able to continue with the least amount of upheaval in their lives. Dad wasn't happy, but that's the way it goes when you essentially hand over all care and control of the kids during your marriage..and then the marriage doesn't work out. Care and control is going to most likely stay right where it was.
PaulS1950
Senior Member
I don't buy it. When did you initially petition the court for custody? Were you the primary caregiver when you split? Why did you split? What was the situation of the children when you were together? Do you have a criminal record? Did your family have CSD involvement before you split? How much child support do you pay, and has it always been current? What do you earn? Was your wife working when you split up, and is she working now? Has CSD been involved with the children since you split?
I don't expect yo to "buy it".
I petitioned the court for custody when I filed for divorce. I was the primary caregiver up to that point. My wife was gone a lot the last three years of our marriage and her addiction nearly cost me the home that we lived in. I filed for divorce when her addiction became a danger to my family and our lives. She left with the kids to "visit her mom" and "get her head on straight" but she dropped the kids off at her sister's (unknown to me) and had an affair with a guy who kept her well supplied (not the first time) with opiates. She was admitted to a hospital where they tricked into signing an admitting form to a rehab center. When that happened I found out where the children were and brought them home. The next day I filed for divorce and custody. The children were in school, had friends and did a lot of things with me. Mom was too high to do much of anything when she was home. I paid $400 in support, my wife never worked - it cut into her drug use. In the 11 years that I paid support I was late twice, when my daughter was almost 17 she moved in with some friends (a pastor and his family). I told OSE that my daughter was not living with her mother and said that I would be sending support directly to the child. They said I could send whatever I wanted to to the child but I still had to pay support to the ex. I did. I have no criminal record and at the time I was making around $40000 a year.
I don't know what CSD is but if it is the same a child protective services, to the best of my knowledge they never chose to get involved even after repeated calls and letters. By repeated I mean that I contacted them many times a year over a seven year span. That is when I found out that my ex had threatened to kill herself (to the kids) if they ever left to live with me. Before we split there was no government involvement at all. I have a large and supportive family that gave me the support I needed to keep going.
The only time my ex worked was in conjunction with a nurse training program which fell through when she was caught taking the patients pain pills. The self admitted into a detox center to avoid prosecution. This was a couple years after our divorce.
I don't expect you to change your judgement because although you are not a cop you do deal with the dead-beat dads and don't get to see the rest of the world. Some of us are better parents than the courts give us credit for.
as I said earlier my kids are both grown and have families of their own so this is in the distant past. We all turned out OK except for the ex as she is still abusing pain pills and has multiple health problems as a result. Kidney, liver and bowel problems - some life threatening at times. She has been known to undergo surgery just to get the pain meds and then she keeps taking them as prescribed from many different doctors and over the internet. It would be a lie to call her a functioning addict because she rarely leaves her home, has no friends and little family support.
- Aug 4, 2011
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I honestly don't know why you think I don't see the rest of the world.
It's comments like that that make me doubt the veracity of the rest of your testimony. It's based on nothing and it's disparaging. I have been in court with fathers seeking custody as well. And in fact, have helped win custody for fathers who had kids placed with unfit/addicted mothers.
And again, I know it happens that the wrong person gets custody sometimes. But the fact that your wife eloped with the kids and established herself as primary care provider has nothing to do with the system being geared towards mothers.
But your story is still confusing me..you say you filed for divorce and custody...after mom took off with the kids? While she was out of the house with the kids? And you glean over the part about her being home with them while you were together, so it sounds like she WAS the primary care provider, if you were working and she was home with them, and taking them around with her and such. It sounds like you filed for divorce/custody when she was out of the home with the children...no CSD involvement so it doesn't sound like the kids were neglected at all...then you skip forward 11 years..so I presume you weren't awarded custody at the time of the divorce; no csd involvement so no documented abuse/neglect....
It just sounds like a typical contested case. I don't see anything there to indicate bias on behalf of mothers in general.
In all the time she was addicted and taking care of the kids in your home, did you guys have any dom violence incidents?
It's comments like that that make me doubt the veracity of the rest of your testimony. It's based on nothing and it's disparaging. I have been in court with fathers seeking custody as well. And in fact, have helped win custody for fathers who had kids placed with unfit/addicted mothers.
And again, I know it happens that the wrong person gets custody sometimes. But the fact that your wife eloped with the kids and established herself as primary care provider has nothing to do with the system being geared towards mothers.
But your story is still confusing me..you say you filed for divorce and custody...after mom took off with the kids? While she was out of the house with the kids? And you glean over the part about her being home with them while you were together, so it sounds like she WAS the primary care provider, if you were working and she was home with them, and taking them around with her and such. It sounds like you filed for divorce/custody when she was out of the home with the children...no CSD involvement so it doesn't sound like the kids were neglected at all...then you skip forward 11 years..so I presume you weren't awarded custody at the time of the divorce; no csd involvement so no documented abuse/neglect....
It just sounds like a typical contested case. I don't see anything there to indicate bias on behalf of mothers in general.
In all the time she was addicted and taking care of the kids in your home, did you guys have any dom violence incidents?
PaulS1950
Senior Member
She took the kids with her to visit mom - which didn't happen. The kids were dropped off at her sister's house and she didn't elope - she partied with a guy who kept her drugs available - while our kids were at her sisters. I was sending living money to the tune of $150 a week so the kids were not a burden on her mother.... but she was using that money for herself. It wasn't until I found out where the kids were and brought them home that I filed for divorce. At that time she was in detox. I paid her sister back for supporting my kids (what a joke that was) They looked like little orphans in dirty clothes and no shoes. They were used to being treated like real people by me.
Is a mother who lies in bed all day a primary care giver?
Or is the dad that fixes meals, works with the kids on their homework, takes them to the zoo, park and fishing the primary caregiver. Is it the dad who does the laundry, dishes and puts them to bed each night or the mother who leaves and comes back too high to even be a person?
Maybe my jumping around in the time line confused you.
1. I took care of my kids , they went to school in the morning after breakfast with lunches I made for them, they came home at 3:00 after school to a house that I left clean for them. They did their homework and when I got home we spend a few moments together just talking about how the day went. I checked the final homework results. I fixed dinner, fed them made sure the were bathed and ready for bed. On the weekend we did all kinds of stuff together. Mom was welcome to join but rarely did. I have a lot of wonderful memories of those years with my kids.
After I got them home from my ex's sister is when I filed for divorce. They were with me and the ex was in detox sobering up and refusing to give up her prescription meds. I filed for custody and a divorce at the same time that she was in a detox center half a state away. The problem is that after 30 days she got out and got a lawyer to draw up papers allowing her to take the kids - there was no court order yet so the court in Yakima gave her temp custody. She came and got the kids and a quick call to my lawyer and he said I had to let her have them. So my hell began.
I never reported her violent side. I thought I was protecting the kids. I was the only one she ever hit and I got help from a therapist so I could deal with it without returning the blows.
Anyway, I had filed for divorce and custody but the court in Yakima granted her temporary custody until the final judgement was made. When the final judgement was handed down she was rewarded half the value of the house, the better of the two cars (which I had to complete the payments on) and those belongings in the house that were hers and the kids - she had been granted custody! She cleaned the house out - leaving me one plate, one pot and one set of flatware. She even took the washer and dryer.
I walked into that empty house and realized that my kids were gone. I looked into the visitation section and saw that I could see them every other weekend and I was devistated. They were and still are my life. skipping forward 11 years my kids and I are reunited and it was tortuous for all of us I think, until I pulled out the photo album and the copies of the letters. we talked about all the cards I sent and they were clueless. I got out my journal and we laughed and cried together until it was very late.
I have to stop. sorry. I can't relive this
Is a mother who lies in bed all day a primary care giver?
Or is the dad that fixes meals, works with the kids on their homework, takes them to the zoo, park and fishing the primary caregiver. Is it the dad who does the laundry, dishes and puts them to bed each night or the mother who leaves and comes back too high to even be a person?
Maybe my jumping around in the time line confused you.
1. I took care of my kids , they went to school in the morning after breakfast with lunches I made for them, they came home at 3:00 after school to a house that I left clean for them. They did their homework and when I got home we spend a few moments together just talking about how the day went. I checked the final homework results. I fixed dinner, fed them made sure the were bathed and ready for bed. On the weekend we did all kinds of stuff together. Mom was welcome to join but rarely did. I have a lot of wonderful memories of those years with my kids.
After I got them home from my ex's sister is when I filed for divorce. They were with me and the ex was in detox sobering up and refusing to give up her prescription meds. I filed for custody and a divorce at the same time that she was in a detox center half a state away. The problem is that after 30 days she got out and got a lawyer to draw up papers allowing her to take the kids - there was no court order yet so the court in Yakima gave her temp custody. She came and got the kids and a quick call to my lawyer and he said I had to let her have them. So my hell began.
I never reported her violent side. I thought I was protecting the kids. I was the only one she ever hit and I got help from a therapist so I could deal with it without returning the blows.
Anyway, I had filed for divorce and custody but the court in Yakima granted her temporary custody until the final judgement was made. When the final judgement was handed down she was rewarded half the value of the house, the better of the two cars (which I had to complete the payments on) and those belongings in the house that were hers and the kids - she had been granted custody! She cleaned the house out - leaving me one plate, one pot and one set of flatware. She even took the washer and dryer.
I walked into that empty house and realized that my kids were gone. I looked into the visitation section and saw that I could see them every other weekend and I was devistated. They were and still are my life. skipping forward 11 years my kids and I are reunited and it was tortuous for all of us I think, until I pulled out the photo album and the copies of the letters. we talked about all the cards I sent and they were clueless. I got out my journal and we laughed and cried together until it was very late.
I have to stop. sorry. I can't relive this
- Aug 4, 2011
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Anyway, that still doesn't prove that the system is biased against fathers. The courts hear stories all the time about how horrible the other parent is, and they have to make a determination based on the evidence they have...and sometimes it happens that they find one party more believable than another, or they toss the proverbial coin.
You say she laid around in bed all day and she might have...but that is just you saying that. You say there were dv incidents that you didn't report..but that's you reporting it....she could say that you abused her, or that you wouldn't let her do anything...my point isn't that you're a bad dad who deserved to have his kids taken away. My point is that your story, which is sad, is not evidence of any bias against fathers.
You say she laid around in bed all day and she might have...but that is just you saying that. You say there were dv incidents that you didn't report..but that's you reporting it....she could say that you abused her, or that you wouldn't let her do anything...my point isn't that you're a bad dad who deserved to have his kids taken away. My point is that your story, which is sad, is not evidence of any bias against fathers.
Thread title,
I've avoided responding to this thread so far, but I'm going to take the leap now.
I'll start with some cliff notes of my background in regards to child support.
When I first got divorced, my wife and I managed to work out custody and support agreements without any attorneys. Both of us had the children's best interest in mind, so it wasn't difficult. We did an exact 50/50 custody, and since we both made about the same income, there was no need for a support agreement. I made slightly more than her and medical insurance was cheaper through my employer than through hers.
A few years went by and she decided to relocate to another city, leaving me as the custodial parent. Again, without attorneys, we agreed to an equitable and fair amount of child support for her to pay. The problem arose when she failed to pay what we had agreed upon.
I was forced to hire an attorney so that I could get court ordered child support.
And, you are damn straight, Aristotle, child support isn't fair. The amount of child support that my attorney and my state said that my ex-wife was obligated to pay was ridiculously high. The ex-wife and I were still making about the same income, and I knew that If I was responsible for making the child support payments they were telling me that she had to make, I'd lose my house and have to live like a pauper to pay them. My attorney thought I was crazy, the family court judge thought I was crazy, because I only asked for a reasonable amount of child support that was about 60% of what the court system deemed as reasonable.
The unfairness in child support is the amount the courts seem to think is reasonable, not the child support itself.
My ex-wife paid her child support, I'm not sure she would have paid the (or could afford) the unreasonable amount the state determined with it's screwed up formula.
Child Support is unfair
I am in no way defending the irresponisbility of men who lack the fortitude to take care of their own responsibility as an adult, but I firmly believe any system that awards someone with money ought to be tracked. I'm not sure about you guys but I meet far too many men with no representation regarding child support and the issues they face regarding money. How is it that the state can track EBT payments but not child support? I personally believe the system is unfair towards responsible men and are soft on irresponsible women....What say ye?
I've avoided responding to this thread so far, but I'm going to take the leap now.
I'll start with some cliff notes of my background in regards to child support.
When I first got divorced, my wife and I managed to work out custody and support agreements without any attorneys. Both of us had the children's best interest in mind, so it wasn't difficult. We did an exact 50/50 custody, and since we both made about the same income, there was no need for a support agreement. I made slightly more than her and medical insurance was cheaper through my employer than through hers.
A few years went by and she decided to relocate to another city, leaving me as the custodial parent. Again, without attorneys, we agreed to an equitable and fair amount of child support for her to pay. The problem arose when she failed to pay what we had agreed upon.
I was forced to hire an attorney so that I could get court ordered child support.
And, you are damn straight, Aristotle, child support isn't fair. The amount of child support that my attorney and my state said that my ex-wife was obligated to pay was ridiculously high. The ex-wife and I were still making about the same income, and I knew that If I was responsible for making the child support payments they were telling me that she had to make, I'd lose my house and have to live like a pauper to pay them. My attorney thought I was crazy, the family court judge thought I was crazy, because I only asked for a reasonable amount of child support that was about 60% of what the court system deemed as reasonable.
The unfairness in child support is the amount the courts seem to think is reasonable, not the child support itself.
My ex-wife paid her child support, I'm not sure she would have paid the (or could afford) the unreasonable amount the state determined with it's screwed up formula.
brandinsmith
Rookie
- Nov 1, 2013
- 18
- 1
- 1
The system is completely messed up
. I am the wife of a man who was just incarcerated when money was coming out of his check. I can't get him out unless I have $10,300. I have a campaign explaining my story. If you have the heart to check it out, contribute, or even simply spread on your social medias or around the web I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you ADMIN EDIT...against forum policy to solicit
. I am the wife of a man who was just incarcerated when money was coming out of his check. I can't get him out unless I have $10,300. I have a campaign explaining my story. If you have the heart to check it out, contribute, or even simply spread on your social medias or around the web I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you ADMIN EDIT...against forum policy to solicit
Oh mother of Christ.
It was certainly unfair of your husband to have children with a woman and then refuse to support those children. It was certainly and absolutely unfair of your husband to marry you and have yet more babies that he knew he could not support. It was absolutely unfair of YOU to have children with a man known not to support the child he already has.
What IS fair? The mother of his child to just accept that he moved on, has another family to support and she is shit out of luck? Or, maybe that telling men to support their children at all is unfair.
Unfortunately for you, is that this is a bed that you made yourself. Your predicament comes entirely from bad decisions that you made. We all make bad decisions. It's not up to others to correct our mistakes.
What IS fair? The mother of his child to just accept that he moved on, has another family to support and she is shit out of luck? Or, maybe that telling men to support their children at all is unfair.
Unfortunately for you, is that this is a bed that you made yourself. Your predicament comes entirely from bad decisions that you made. We all make bad decisions. It's not up to others to correct our mistakes.
auditor0007
Gold Member
The only unfair thing about child support the one who is paying it can't use it as a tax deduction I pay a thousand a month for one child and can't use it as a deduction
I'm assuming you get to at least split the tax credit for the kid? The money itself should not be tax deductible. The kid is not a business expense.
ScienceRocks
Democrat all the way!
- Banned
- #437
If you fuck and a woman has your child = paying for your child.
Fucking dead beats.
Fucking dead beats.
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