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Franchisees aren't employees. They're business owners who purchase the name, reputation, advertising, and business assistance of a large company, and in so doing, take on a contractual responsibility to represent that company's name and reputation according to its rules. "Freedom" has nothing to do with it, since it is a voluntary contract between two private individuals. No one is forcing those franchisees to choose to open a Chick-Fil-A, rather than a Subway or a McDonald's or any other fast-food franchise, and as long as Chick-Fil-A is not requiring anything illegal, they have every right to choose their franchisees however they see fit.
I don't have any problem with garden variety "codes of conduct" in order to set a standard of behavior related to business dealings. I also don't have any problem with work place rules. But imposing one's religious beliefs on another in the work place when the work place is anything other than a house of worship is just plain wrong and it runs contrary to the centuries old tenets of religious freedom on which this country was and is founded.
Aside from that common sense and logic, one can't sign away his or her constitutional freedoms under the provisions of a business contract.
One can, however, be informed in advance of the requirements of the job, which can actually include provisions that are religious. and either agree to them or get another job. Your problem is you assume people have a right to work for a company and that said company actually has to hire people that actively disagree with its religion. You are, as usual, wrong.
On Wednesday night, July 5, Rabbi Berel Levertov, Head Kashrus Supervisor for the Vaad Hakashrus-CHK, was about to leave on a long trip. It was one of his frequent trips for surprise inspections of dairy facilities of the Ahava company, which carries the Crown Heights Kosher certification. Then his phone rang.
On the line was Rabbi Avrohom Osdoba, Rabbinic authority of Crown Heights. His request was to please take with him Rabbi Yitzchok Zirkind and Rabbi Shlomo Segal, two of the newly elected members of the Beth Din, to introduce them to the Beth Din’s kashrus procedures at the milk farms and dairy plants under its supervision.
It's not off base in the least. It's religious discrimination which, by the way, is something that conservatives are always crying about. Chick-fil-A is imposing their religious values on people who essentially work FOR them, whether they're called employees, or franchisees, or contract workers. The end result is still the same.
No, idiot. You miss the point. A franchisee simply has a cotnract with the company. He is not an employee. He cannot be fired. It is a completely different relationship.
But even so, why couldn't an employer impose this on an employee? What's wrong with it? If you dont like it, go work somewhere else.
A franchisee cannot be fired? Cathy has stated that "he would probably terminate the contract of an operator who had done something sinful..."
We're talking about a distinction without a difference. "Oh, I'm not firing you! I'm terminating your contract." See, it's COMPLETELY different."
Federal law says marriage is between a man and woman.
Sorry.
that heap of shit will be in the dumper as soon as it gets to scotus.
sorry
Until and if. Sorry. Law.
You dont have to like it. Just obey it.
Federal law says marriage is between a man and woman.
Sorry.
that heap of shit will be in the dumper as soon as it gets to scotus.
sorry
I don't have any problem with garden variety "codes of conduct" in order to set a standard of behavior related to business dealings. I also don't have any problem with work place rules. But imposing one's religious beliefs on another in the work place when the work place is anything other than a house of worship is just plain wrong and it runs contrary to the centuries old tenets of religious freedom on which this country was and is founded.
Aside from that common sense and logic, one can't sign away his or her constitutional freedoms under the provisions of a business contract.
One can, however, be informed in advance of the requirements of the job, which can actually include provisions that are religious. and either agree to them or get another job. Your problem is you assume people have a right to work for a company and that said company actually has to hire people that actively disagree with its religion. You are, as usual, wrong.
Umm No, if we were talking about Employees then they COULD NOT discriminate based on Religion. But CFA does not Discriminate when Hiring Employees, They do not Require Employees to Pray, or Espouse Christian Ideals, Because they Legally Can not.
What they do, Is not sell Franchises to People that do not share their Beliefs, and they have every right to do so.
I worked for them in the latter '70's, they never pulled that shit on us, we had more freedoms from forced religion back then.
I doubt seriously they do it now. It's just anti Chrisitian hysteria on the left's part. They've been demonizing Christians for years now. And they're getting the blowback. Stand firm. This too Shall Pass. Maybe.
Christian Blowback....what an interesting concept. I wonder what Jesus' take on that would be......
Federal law says marriage is between a man and woman.
Sorry.
that heap of shit will be in the dumper as soon as it gets to scotus.
sorry
If, it is tossed out by the SCOTUS at all, it will be on the Grounds that Defining Marriage is not a Power the Federal Government has, so don't get all excited because it will mean the Fed can not do the Opposite Either and Legalize Gay Marriage and Force all states to Recognize it.
.
I'd sure as hell never want to own a franchise, it that's a rule.
Fortunately, no one is forcing me or anyone else to do so.
.
One can, however, be informed in advance of the requirements of the job, which can actually include provisions that are religious. and either agree to them or get another job. Your problem is you assume people have a right to work for a company and that said company actually has to hire people that actively disagree with its religion. You are, as usual, wrong.
Umm No, if we were talking about Employees then they COULD NOT discriminate based on Religion. But CFA does not Discriminate when Hiring Employees, They do not Require Employees to Pray, or Espouse Christian Ideals, Because they Legally Can not.
What they do, Is not sell Franchises to People that do not share their Beliefs, and they have every right to do so.
You're wrong. According to what I read, the franchisees are not required to BE Christian. They're just required (among other things) to participate in group prayer. Personally, I find that very strange. They're essentially saying that they would willingly pray with non believers.
In other words, yes, Chick-fil-A does engage in religious discrimination, but in this case, loopholes in our laws against such discrimination allow Chick-fil-a to get away with it.
What loophole? A franchise is a agreement between two owning parties of a proposed business? Where is the law that says you cannot include morals clauses (which this is) in contracts?
Including sharia law in businesses that are in the USA?
Personally, I think that all this Chick-fil-A brouhaha is much ado about nonsense. People on both sides need to get a life and stop acting so damn childish.
HOWEVER, it has managed to shed a light on some CfA internal requirements for franchisees that, in my humble opinion, is anathema to the notion of freedom in this country and what is and IS NOT appropriate for an employer to expect and demand out of an employee.
I don't read Daily Kos, but this was the first site where I could find this information. That's why I included it here.
Chick-fil-A: Franchise Operators Must "Espouse Christian Values" and "Participate in Group Prayers"
Listening to Randi Rhodes yesterday, I heard something that struck me. So I did a little research and found this, which I thought worth sharing with you all.
An article in the small business section of the Houston Chronicle reports on how one can win approval to become a franchise operator for Chick-fil-A.
First you fill out an application, and the company does some checking into your financial background, etc. Step 2 in winning approval mentions that the company wants franchisees to be "active" in their communities, and notes specifically that they "prefer" people who participate in "community, religious and professional organizations." Now it's getting interesting, but even that's pretty mild stuff compared to what's coming, especially after step 3, which merely emphasizes that operating the franchise should be the applicant's full-time job.
Step 4 Play an active role in your church. Chick-fil-A's owners are devout Christians and expect all of their operators to share Christian values. Operators do not need to be Christian, but must be willing to close the restaurant on Sundays, espouse Christian values and be willing to participate in group prayers during training and management meetings.That's where I took a deep breath. Yes, it says that operators don't have to be Christian, but there's the part about values and prayers. We'll discuss that further in a bit. Step 5 asks applicants to be prepared for a long vetting process. Then Step 6 informs applicants that they will have to clearly declare their marital status, and notes that the chairman, S. Truett Cathy, "prefers" that all franchisees be married. The article goes on to explain that:
One-third of all Chick-fil-A operators have attended Christian relationship-building retreats at the urging of the company. Cathy notes that he would probably terminate the contract of an operator who had done something sinful or harmful to his family.Daily Kos: Chick-fil-A: Franchise Operators Must "Espouse Christian Values" and "Participate in Group Prayers"
In other words, yes, Chick-fil-A does engage in religious discrimination, but in this case, loopholes in our laws against such discrimination allow Chick-fil-a to get away with it.
What loophole? A franchise is a agreement between two owning parties of a proposed business? Where is the law that says you cannot include morals clauses (which this is) in contracts?
Including sharia law in businesses that are in the USA?
Actually, most business owners are smart enough not to alienate any segment of the population. And do you know why? Because it's NOT good business. You see, everyone's money is green and contributes to the bottom line, regardless of THEIR politics. That's why. Cathy has likely endeared himself to RW Christians with his announcement, but he's also alienated a LOT of people. Once the lines have shortened because the immediacy of the controversy is over, their franchises will probably experience a dip in sales as people take their business elsewhere.
Only this issue is not new, it's just new to the Liberal press. Chic Fil A has always held these beliefs, always pushed for Christians Values, Always been Closed on Sunday.
Anyone that would Boycott a Huge Company with Thousands of Employees and Individual Owners, In order to Punish 1 Man for what he said, is a Pathetic ass.
I worked for them in 1977-78, there was no big flashing signs of Chrsitan faith like now.
They can if they determine that the act violated civil rights.
A franchisee is not an employee. CFA is not the Federal government. If people dont like it, they dont have to do business with CFA.
So other than being completely off base your post is stupid.
Actually, most business owners are smart enough not to alienate any segment of the population. And do you know why? Because it's NOT good business. You see, everyone's money is green and contributes to the bottom line, regardless of THEIR politics. That's why. Cathy has likely endeared himself to RW Christians with his announcement, but he's also alienated a LOT of people. Once the lines have shortened because the immediacy of the controversy is over, their franchises will probably experience a dip in sales as people take their business elsewhere.
Only this issue is not new, it's just new to the Liberal press. Chic Fil A has always held these beliefs, always pushed for Christians Values, Always been Closed on Sunday.
Anyone that would Boycott a Huge Company with Thousands of Employees and Individual Owners, In order to Punish 1 Man for what he said, is a Pathetic ass.
I worked for them in 1977-78, there was no big flashing signs of Chrsitan faith like now.
I don't have any problem with garden variety "codes of conduct" in order to set a standard of behavior related to business dealings. I also don't have any problem with work place rules. But imposing one's religious beliefs on another in the work place when the work place is anything other than a house of worship is just plain wrong and it runs contrary to the centuries old tenets of religious freedom on which this country was and is founded.
Aside from that common sense and logic, one can't sign away his or her constitutional freedoms under the provisions of a business contract.
One can, however, be informed in advance of the requirements of the job, which can actually include provisions that are religious. and either agree to them or get another job. Your problem is you assume people have a right to work for a company and that said company actually has to hire people that actively disagree with its religion. You are, as usual, wrong.
Umm No, if we were talking about Employees then they COULD NOT discriminate based on Religion. But CFA does not Discriminate when Hiring Employees, They do not Require Employees to Pray, or Espouse Christian Ideals, Because they Legally Can not.
What they do, Is not sell Franchises to People that do not share their Beliefs, and they have every right to do so.
