Chicago Teachers: Apparently a 16 percent raise not good enough

[Politico]

This has nothing to do with the percentage. It has to do with rules requiring them to meet a performance standard. 76k don't do you much good if you ain't there to collect it.

Yeah they only get paid for 9 months.

What does that have to do with anything? I once worked a position where I was paid annually.

 

[asterism]

Tell them about the 9 month school year.

Yeah they only get paid for 9 months.
And many have to take courses over the summer on their own dime to keep their job.

Prove that.

I've got family that are teachers and none of them have to take courses on their own time and certainly not over the summer.

 

[ScienceRocks]

What's so wrong about expecting a teacher to educate their students?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Chicago teachers were offered a 16 percent raise (during a bad economy).

Chicago teachers strike for first time in 25 years; contingency sites ready, charters remain open - Chicago Sun-Times

And Chicago teachers are already the highest paid in the nation at $76,000 before benefits! I'm assuming they have lofty medical/pensions that pushes that number into six figures!

How Much Do Chicago Public School Teachers Make? « CBS Chicago

This is why people just don't give an f about public unions any more. They think they can get grossly over compensated and hold us hostage at any moment.

Umm your link made no mention of what the issues were that caused the strike.
Linky please.

They were offered a pay raise, and went on strike. What other issues could there be?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So it is not over a 16% pay raise as the not so great Gatsby said?

He did not say it was about the raise. He stated that they were offered a raise of 16%, and that they went on strike. Both of those statements are true.

 

[American_Jihad]

Chicago Teacher's Strike Defines Election Issues

By Matthew Holzmann
9/11/12

---

In education, the Wisconsin reforms allowed schools to hire and fire based on merit. School districts can pay teachers for superior performance. The law allows districts to hire and retain the best and brightest and to shop for insurance, which turns out to have saved hundreds of millions of dollars. Basic stuff, but when a system is corrupted, bloat and graft and gaming the system become the norm. The Wisconsin reforms are already bearing fruit. The lack of reform in Chicago is also apparent.

Chicago's teacher union is symbolic of much of what has gone wrong in our country. Self-interest, cronyism, corruption and sloth when our children need the best we have to offer, are completely and utterly unacceptable. The Chicago strike defines what is wrong while the Wisconsin reforms point to a possible solution.

It is the statism and crony interests of one side versus the freedom to innovate and improve of the other. As a key stakeholder our president also must take ownership. His Secretary of Education is a part of the problem, not the solution. The timing and issues cannot be more clear. The Chicago strike is a defining moment.


Read more: Articles: Chicago Teacher's Strike Defines Election Issues

 

[Noomi]

Many people don't believe teachers deserve extra pay. I am on the fence.

Why is it that teachers always strike during school hours? Why not during their holidays? Obviously, this would defeat the purpose, but it would mean parents don't have to take the day off work to look after their kids.

Yes, teachers get around 8 weeks holiday each year - more than most people. They get sick days, too. But remember, during those holidays they spend that time marking reports and assignments, and working out what to do for the next term. Their holidays are mainly working holidays.

That said, it is unfair that a crappy teacher get paid the same amount as a good teacher. A teacher who has many students in their class who fail their tests shouldn't expect the same money as a teacher who actually takes the time to assist their students.

Here in Victoria, our teachers went on strike a few weeks ago, demanding more pay. They got it, and they are demanding yet more money! They are never happen no matter what you give them.

 

[uscitizen]

All Teachers have college educations.
Conclusion college educations make them act the way they do.

 

[blimpo]

Tell them about the 9 month school year.

Yeah they only get paid for 9 months.
And many have to take courses over the summer on their own dime to keep their job.

Prove that.

I've got family that are teachers and none of them have to take courses on their own time and certainly not over the summer.

Indiana law- Must have finished 6 hours of graduate level credit in Education every 5 years for license renewal... I know, I spent many summers on the local university campus.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Many people don't believe teachers deserve extra pay. I am on the fence.

Why is it that teachers always strike during school hours? Why not during their holidays? Obviously, this would defeat the purpose, but it would mean parents don't have to take the day off work to look after their kids.

Yes, teachers get around 8 weeks holiday each year - more than most people. They get sick days, too. But remember, during those holidays they spend that time marking reports and assignments, and working out what to do for the next term. Their holidays are mainly working holidays.

That said, it is unfair that a crappy teacher get paid the same amount as a good teacher. A teacher who has many students in their class who fail their tests shouldn't expect the same money as a teacher who actually takes the time to assist their students.

Here in Victoria, our teachers went on strike a few weeks ago, demanding more pay. They got it, and they are demanding yet more money! They are never happen no matter what you give them.

You are on the fence because you don't know the issues. The teachers in Chicago are the highest paid in the entire country, yet 40% of students that manage to get to high school will drop out. They get paid more than most of the parents who are paying their salaries through taxes, yet they turned down a 16% pay raise because it was less than the 30% increase they want.

Oh, and they want air conditioning, and don't want to give good teachers merit pay despite the fact that there are only one or two bad teachers in the entire fucking district and the schools are working really hard to get rid of them. (Side issue, why do districts have to work to get rid of teachers everyone thinks are bad?)

Stop pretending to yourself you understand the issues.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yeah they only get paid for 9 months.
And many have to take courses over the summer on their own dime to keep their job.

Prove that.

I've got family that are teachers and none of them have to take courses on their own time and certainly not over the summer.

Indiana law- Must have finished 6 hours of graduate level credit in Education every 5 years for license renewal... I know, I spent many summers on the local university campus.

6 hours every five years? I could do that by going to a few seminars without taking a single test, am I smarter than teachers in Chicago.

 

[squeeze berry]

Prove that.

I've got family that are teachers and none of them have to take courses on their own time and certainly not over the summer.

Indiana law- Must have finished 6 hours of graduate level credit in Education every 5 years for license renewal... I know, I spent many summers on the local university campus.

6 hours every five years? I could do that by going to a few seminars without taking a single test, am I smarter than teachers in Chicago.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHpwzpaFI4g&safety_mode=true&persist_safety_mode=1&safe=active]The Association - Windy (1967 Ravinia Festival - Highland Park IL ) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[squeeze berry]

Yeah they only get paid for 9 months.
And many have to take courses over the summer on their own dime to keep their job.

Prove that.

I've got family that are teachers and none of them have to take courses on their own time and certainly not over the summer.

Indiana law- Must have finished 6 hours of graduate level credit in Education every 5 years for license renewal... I know, I spent many summers on the local university campus.

that's the way it is in Virginia too.

I'm thinking about getting another endorsement to get out of special ed.

I'm only neeeding two more re-licensures befor I retire. I need to figure out how to spcae out the courses. Four the first five years and 2 the next five My retirement job may be at a school closer to home. Maybe reading specialist.

 

[asterism]

Many people don't believe teachers deserve extra pay. I am on the fence.

Why is it that teachers always strike during school hours? Why not during their holidays? Obviously, this would defeat the purpose, but it would mean parents don't have to take the day off work to look after their kids.

Yes, teachers get around 8 weeks holiday each year - more than most people. They get sick days, too. But remember, during those holidays they spend that time marking reports and assignments, and working out what to do for the next term. Their holidays are mainly working holidays.

That said, it is unfair that a crappy teacher get paid the same amount as a good teacher. A teacher who has many students in their class who fail their tests shouldn't expect the same money as a teacher who actually takes the time to assist their students.

Here in Victoria, our teachers went on strike a few weeks ago, demanding more pay. They got it, and they are demanding yet more money! They are never happen no matter what you give them.

I've yet to meet a teacher that actually worked on holidays regularly. Many claim to do so, but in reality it's quite rare.

Teaching is a hard job for many reasons, but the hours compared to similarly qualified and paid professionals are very sweet.

 

[asterism]

Yeah they only get paid for 9 months.
And many have to take courses over the summer on their own dime to keep their job.

Prove that.

I've got family that are teachers and none of them have to take courses on their own time and certainly not over the summer.

Indiana law- Must have finished 6 hours of graduate level credit in Education every 5 years for license renewal... I know, I spent many summers on the local university campus.

Ah, I stand corrected. So exactly how taxing is that 6 hours of credit every 5 years? How many pennies per week does that work out to? How much time?

 

[squeeze berry]

Prove that.

I've got family that are teachers and none of them have to take courses on their own time and certainly not over the summer.

Indiana law- Must have finished 6 hours of graduate level credit in Education every 5 years for license renewal... I know, I spent many summers on the local university campus.

Ah, I stand corrected. So exactly how taxing is that 6 hours of credit every 5 years? How many pennies per week does that work out to? How much time?

so you have never taken masters level courses to keep your job?

 

[asterism]

Indiana law- Must have finished 6 hours of graduate level credit in Education every 5 years for license renewal... I know, I spent many summers on the local university campus.

Ah, I stand corrected. So exactly how taxing is that 6 hours of credit every 5 years? How many pennies per week does that work out to? How much time?

so you have never taken masters level courses to keep your job?

No. I'm self employed.

 

[wjmacguffin]

Okay, a few clarifications from a former teacher and principal:

1. The average salary for teachers is $76K, that's true. As someone else noted above, that's a mathematical average and not what most teachers make. Many teachers, especially elementary school teachers, buy their own supplies. Can you imagine a job where you actually had to buy your own copy paper and stapler? Would you stand for that? (No, not every school is like that--only the poor ones, and there are many poor schools in Chicago.)

2. Teachers only working 9-months is a myth. They regularly put in 50-60 hour weeks from August through mid-June, more during certain times of the year (such as near the end of the quarter). As someone stated above, Summer is a time when teachers are expected and sometimes demanded to take college courses to keep their certification--and hence, their job. Does that sound like a leisurely 9-month year?

3. Chicago teachers and the city had agreed to a 4% raise. Then the city reneged on that promise, citing a huge budget deficit. The next week, the city gave raises to the top five education executives, one receiving a $20K raise. How would you feel if your promised raise was taken away and given to your bosses?

4. Chicago teachers were never offered a 16% raise. An independent arbiter examined the issue about the city wanting to add 90 minutes of instruction to the school day. The arbiter said that, to properly compensate teachers for the extra 90 minutes of instruction plus whatever minutes of prep and grading, the city should offer a 14.5% raise. The city rejected the plan, as did the teachers. (I am not sure why, so if someone has a link explaining why rather than an opinion, please post it here.)

5. The city wants to add 90 minutes of instruction per day. That can be anywhere from 90 minutes to 180 minutes of work for the teachers. They asked to be paid for those 90 minutes and the city said no. Would you agree to work for 1.5 - 3 hours more each day without getting anything in return?

6. The teachers said no to the 90 minutes with no pay. Then the city offered a 2% raise to an entire school's teachers, plus additional money for the school, if they would break with the union and go to a longer school day. Would that make you feel like the city was trying to force its demands on the teachers? And besides, wasn't there a budget crisis?

7. The city used a test given to prospective teachers to weed out those who wouldn't support a longer school day, even if the candidates were ideal. Wouldn't that undermine your trust for the city's leaders?

If you believe teachers are lazy, ineffectual, and have all the time they want, then you obviously don't know a teacher. (Or, you know one really bad teacher.) This strike is regrettable but, from what I've seen, it appears the city cannot be trusted and is asking too much of the teachers. I hate seeing kids out of school but the union's been warning about this strike for over a year now.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Okay, a few clarifications from a former teacher and principal:

1. The average salary for teachers is $76K, that's true. As someone else noted above, that's a mathematical average and not what most teachers make. Many teachers, especially elementary school teachers, buy their own supplies. Can you imagine a job where you actually had to buy your own copy paper and stapler? Would you stand for that? (No, not every school is like that--only the poor ones, and there are many poor schools in Chicago.)

1. So fix the budget so that their supplies are paid for. That reality alone, reflects the greed of the unions/administrations. It doesn't justify the gross pay raises.

I'll be honest. I stopped at this point; b/c if you think this is a valid point then I'm not interested in the rest of the white wash.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Chicago teachers were offered a 16 percent raise (during a bad economy).

Chicago teachers strike for first time in 25 years; contingency sites ready, charters remain open - Chicago Sun-Times

And Chicago teachers are already the highest paid in the nation at $76,000 before benefits! I'm assuming they have lofty medical/pensions that pushes that number into six figures!

How Much Do Chicago Public School Teachers Make? « CBS Chicago

This is why people just don't give an f about public unions any more. They think they can get grossly over compensated and hold us hostage at any moment.

I didn't see where it said they offered them 16 percent more money but with doubling of their work hours and work load 16 % would be a pay cut.