Cherry Picking Jesus Apart

[CurveLight]

curve light has a filthy mouth that could use a soap washing!!!

I once tried Dove. But a fucking skunk crawled out.

 

[tsalkonocii]

I've accepted that jesus was probably gay.

whatever you need to tell yourself to accept your desires

 

[JoLouis]

I've accepted that jesus was probably gay.

whatever you need to tell yourself to accept your desires

I'm not gay myself, never have even experimented with homosexuality, but have accepted that Jesus probably was a fudge packer.

 

[CurveLight]

I've accepted that jesus was probably gay.

whatever you need to tell yourself to accept your desires

I'm not gay myself, never have even experimented with homosexuality, but have accepted that Jesus probably was a fudge packer.

You should try debating issues because you are an absolutely shitty troll.

 

[JoLouis]

whatever you need to tell yourself to accept your desires

I'm not gay myself, never have even experimented with homosexuality, but have accepted that Jesus probably was a fudge packer.

You should try debating issues because you are an absolutely shitty troll.

Why, you have some actual proof that Jesus wasn't gay?

 

[CurveLight]

I've accepted that jesus was probably gay.

whatever you need to tell yourself to accept your desires

I'm not gay myself, never have even experimented with homosexuality, but have accepted that Jesus probably was a fudge packer.

I'm not gay myself, never have even experimented with homosexuality, but have accepted that Jesus probably was a fudge packer.

You should try debating issues because you are an absolutely shitty troll.

Why, you have some actual proof that Jesus wasn't gay?

What was mysterious about "you are an absolutely shitty troll?"

 

[JoLouis]

whatever you need to tell yourself to accept your desires

I'm not gay myself, never have even experimented with homosexuality, but have accepted that Jesus probably was a fudge packer.

You should try debating issues because you are an absolutely shitty troll.

Why, you have some actual proof that Jesus wasn't gay?

What was mysterious about "you are an absolutely shitty troll?"

Here's some advice, when you have nothing intelligent to say to my proposition, or have no proof to offer, maybe you should just shut up. Waddaya think?

 

[Newby]

I'm not gay myself, never have even experimented with homosexuality, but have accepted that Jesus probably was a fudge packer.

Why, you have some actual proof that Jesus wasn't gay?

What was mysterious about "you are an absolutely shitty troll?"

Here's some advice, when you have nothing intelligent to say to my proposition, or have no proof to offer, maybe you should just shut up. Waddaya think?

The irony in that comment is totally priceless.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Jesus never said to accept him as your "personal Saviour." How do you explain what he actually did say in Luke 11:4?

Forgive us our trespasses? You really need an explanation of why he says to ask forgiveness?

never said to accept him as your personal saviour?

John 14:6

I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.​

That one verse causes so many problems. Why? Simple.........Yeshua (His real name) didn't come for the Jews, because they were ALREADY saved! Remember Abraham hanging around HaShem all the time and because of what Abraham did, God told Abraham that Abraham's line forever would be His Chosen.

Why else do you think that Yeshua was Jewish?

But when Yeshua stated that "no one comes to the Father except through Me", he was telling the NATIONS of the worlds (everyone NOT Jewish), that if they wanted to come to God, they would have to do it via His teachings, not pagan beliefs.

However.........after Rome sacked Jerusalem, they took the Jewish teachings and mixed it in with paganism anyway. Why else do you think the sunrise service on Easter exists? Rome was mixing in pagan beliefs as a way to sell Christianity to the people.

That's why He said that.

 

[JoLouis]

But when Yeshua stated that "no one comes to the Father except through Me", he was telling the NATIONS of the worlds (everyone NOT Jewish), that if they wanted to come to God, they would have to do it via His teachings, not pagan beliefs.

So Jews are pagans? And they have no relationship already with god?

 

[ABikerSailor]

But when Yeshua stated that "no one comes to the Father except through Me", he was telling the NATIONS of the worlds (everyone NOT Jewish), that if they wanted to come to God, they would have to do it via His teachings, not pagan beliefs.

So Jews are pagans? And they have no relationship already with god?

No, Jews are not pagans, they are God's Chosen People because of their ancestor Abraham.

Yeshua was Jewish, why else do you think He was in Jerusalem? Easter? Not a chance, He was there to celebrate Passover. I found it interesting by the way that a couple years ago, Easter came BEFORE Passover (Yeshua was crucified after Passover), which means that there is something screwy in the Christian beliefs.

Yes, Jews already have a relationship with God. By the way, Yeshua taught as a rabbi would teach, in parables and stories.

Yeshua basically came to save everyone that wasn't Jewish.

 

[CurveLight]

But when Yeshua stated that "no one comes to the Father except through Me", he was telling the NATIONS of the worlds (everyone NOT Jewish), that if they wanted to come to God, they would have to do it via His teachings, not pagan beliefs.

So Jews are pagans? And they have no relationship already with god?

No, Jews are not pagans, they are God's Chosen People because of their ancestor Abraham.

Yeshua was Jewish, why else do you think He was in Jerusalem? Easter? Not a chance, He was there to celebrate Passover. I found it interesting by the way that a couple years ago, Easter came BEFORE Passover (Yeshua was crucified after Passover), which means that there is something screwy in the Christian beliefs.

Yes, Jews already have a relationship with God. By the way, Yeshua taught as a rabbi would teach, in parables and stories.

Yeshua basically came to save everyone that wasn't Jewish.

What about Jesus pointing to a Roman soldier who had more faith than he had seen in "all of Israel?"

If Jews were already saved, where did Doubting Thomas come from?

 

[JoLouis]

Yeshua was delusional, thinking he was coming to save everyone. Good luck to the next fool who tries that.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yeshua didn't come for the Jews. Why? HE IS JEWISH!!!!!! The Jews already had a covenant with God because of their ancestor Abraham who recognized the One True God, and because of that, God blessed Abraham's descendents.

Incidentally, in the story where Yeshua goes over and casts demons out of a man into a bunch of swine, well......on his way out of Jerusalem, He saw a fellow Jew who recognized who He was, and Yeshua told the man to be quiet and not tell anyone.

After He cast the demons out of the guy who WASN'T JEWISH? Well, He then tells the man He's cast the demons out of to tell everyone what God had done for him, via Yeshua.

No, He didn't come to save the Jews, they already had their connection to God. He came for the nations of the world, or to put it another way........everyone who WASN'T Jewish.

 

[CurveLight]

Yeshua didn't come for the Jews. Why? HE IS JEWISH!!!!!! The Jews already had a covenant with God because of their ancestor Abraham who recognized the One True God, and because of that, God blessed Abraham's descendents.

Incidentally, in the story where Yeshua goes over and casts demons out of a man into a bunch of swine, well......on his way out of Jerusalem, He saw a fellow Jew who recognized who He was, and Yeshua told the man to be quiet and not tell anyone.

After He cast the demons out of the guy who WASN'T JEWISH? Well, He then tells the man He's cast the demons out of to tell everyone what God had done for him, via Yeshua.

No, He didn't come to save the Jews, they already had their connection to God. He came for the nations of the world, or to put it another way........everyone who WASN'T Jewish.

There are a few problems with this theory. The first is Jews converted to Christianity. The second is Hebrews 8 spells it out pretty clearly the covenant brought by Jesus replaced the old covenant which means Jews were not in a saddle of immunity if they had to pony up to this new covenant.

There were some Jews who believed what you are claiming which is why Paul spent a good deal of time with reconciliations between Jewish and Gentile Christians. Romans deals a lot on this particular issue.

Jesus didn't come to say Jews are "God's chosen people." He came to say everyone was loved by God and had direct access to God's love and forgiveness without the need for silly ceremonies and jaw dropping extortion schemes run by pretty thieves in a formal hierachical structure.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The first Jews converted to Christianity?

Bullshit. Produce links for that claim. Apparently you've not spent much time studying Judaic theology, nor have you spent much time learning the history.

At first, the apostles wanted to make everyone convert to Judaism.

Additionally, Yeshua said that He didn't come to replace the law, but rather to add to it. The addition was the nations of the world.

 

[CurveLight]

The first Jews converted to Christianity?

Bullshit. Produce links for that claim. Apparently you've not spent much time studying Judaic theology, nor have you spent much time learning the history.

At first, the apostles wanted to make everyone convert to Judaism.

Additionally, Yeshua said that He didn't come to replace the law, but rather to add to it. The addition was the nations of the world.

Actually, Jesus said he came to "fulfill the law." In context he was speaking about the prophecies so he was saying he came to "fulfill" them and when you "fulfill" an obligation, it is done. Meaning, the old covenant no longer applied as spelled out in Hebrews 8. That chapter focuses specifically on Jewish law replaced by the Covenant brought forth by Jesus.

As for the apostles trying to convert people to judaism......hmmmmm......you need to give a more specific time frame with examples. There were 3 different Torahs in operation during the 1st Century in Judea so are you speaking of one of those or some type of amalgamation with the Jesus Movement?

You want a link about Jews converting to Christianity? Ever heard of the Great Jewish Revolt and what lead to the destruction of what was technically the Third Temple? What do you think was the undercurrent of that revolt? It was a rejection of the Temple system under Roman Imperial rule. Or you could read Heb. 8 for a much more concise explanation.

 

[Smartt33]

Accepting Jesus as one's Savior is about eternal salvation. It is about forgiveness of sin, and much more. However, that forgiveness results in the eternal consequences for sin, eternal separation from God.

Asking God for forgiveness, after one is saved, is done because of our real and personal relationship with God. People who have not truly been born again will not seek God when they sin, except for maybe when they are caught, or need something from God.

after we are saved there are still consequences for sin. These are not eternal consequences, but they effect the Christian life in a major way. When we sin our daily fellowship with God is messed up. We discover soon that the joy of our salvation (Joy is part of the fruit of the Spirit) is missing. This is what happened to David in the OT. He asked God to return to him the joy of his salvation. That was done because David repented.

So, there is a difference in the forgiveness given when one is born again, and the forgiveness we seek on a daily basis when we step out of God's will. One has eternal consequences, the other has earthly and daily consequences.

It is true that when we breath our last, the forgiveness we got at our rebirth will cover us as we enter our eternal home, even if we have not cleaned the slate here on earth. The two are different.

When I sin, I know it. I seek God for forgiveness, usually immediately, but sometimes it is days without having that joy of fellowship with God that I have when I am clean.

The relationship between our forgiveness of others and our requests for forgiveness from God is as clear. Jesus taught that if we cannot forgive others, we do not deserve forgiveness. He taught about the person who asked the king to forgive his large debt, and the king did. However then that person went out and demanded a person to give him his full payment of a small debt, and when the person could not he had him arrested. Then the king reversed his decision to forgive, and punished the man. When we fail to forgive others, God will not return us to a joyful fellowship with Him until we breathe our last breath and enter our eternal home.

 

[CMike]

Perhaps we should keep in mind, when reading the Bible, that the authors wrote (and plagiarized) the books over the course of one-hundred years, and had very human motivations for doing so.

For instance, Matthew is clearly written to convert the Jews, while John was written to condemn the Jews.

---

Hence, why Jesus appears to have multiple-personality-disorder when you read the Bible at face value.

The Bible was written for the purpose of informing the world that God loves His creation, and man has sinned and needs to be saved from the wages of that sin. No plagerizing, and no human motivations or agenda were part of this book. Jesus was perfect, and man has the disorders.

That's your bible, not my bible.

 

[CMike]

Oh, no, man. You've misunderstood ME, too!

I'm not trying to be self-righteous ~ just trying to help another Christian "figure it out." (I had sort of hoped/prayed that what i said would make sense to you, and that you'd understand.)

(And ^that's^ NOT me saying you're stoopid)

If YOU've accepted Christ, for who He is,

and if YOU know Him ~ and it sounds like you DO ~ you're Christian.

We ALL make mistakes, especially about what He's saying to us. I, personally, have found that if i'll listen to Him, and not let the "deeply religious" folks try to sway my thinking, i walk more in line with His path.

I was honestly trying to help, NOT put you down, in any way.

curve light has a filthy mouth that could use a soap washing!!!

How do you reconcile the Lord's Prayer with the claim we have to "accept Jesus" for forgiveness?

I think your actual question has to do with:

How do i reconcile the Lord's prayer to the fact that the apostles WERE saved by that time ~

beyond a shadow of a doubt, from the moment they cast their lot with Jesus, they were saved. They loved Him enough to throw off their lives and follow Him, and they believed Him and believed IN Him. When they were worried, they went to Him with their questions. When they doubted, they did it to His face, admitting that they couldn't see the way, to Him. Judas was the one exception, and betrayed Jesus by NOT doing that, by thinking he could see things more clearly, by putting himself above his Lord. He was Never saved, because he never stopped thinking that the world represented more truth than God and Jesus, and fell for the lies.

There really isn't an answer to your first question, because the one doesn't correlate to the other. An example of how we are to pray doesn't really have a direct connection to how we are to be saved. If anything, i don't remember any admonitions regarding the fact that we HAD to pray in order to be saved ~ it is assumed that the natural offshoot of being saved is the desire for a more intimate relationship with God, and that would necessitate a need for communication.

It doesn't look like you've studied the synoptics very much because the apostles were constantly fighting against Jesus, were deceptive, rarely if ever understood his teachings and all ran like hell when Jesus got crucified. The claim they were already "saved" is not only false but irrelevent. Jesus stated the lord's prayer in front of hundreds of people and not simply the original 12.

The lord's prayer points out God is to forgive us as we forgive those who sin against us. No matter how you slice it, that is contradictory to the created theology that we are to "accept Christ" to be forgiven. By Jesus' own words we know he was not God because God is omniscient and Jesus was not omniscient. Jesus never said to accept him as savior. The nicene creed is a politically motivated twisting of cherry picked verses that really disrespect what Jesus taught.

Looks to me like the point of Jesus' instructions on how to receive forgiveness from God is centered on the community and that as people the way we reach the love of God is through forgiving each other. That requires a lot of really hard work. The "accept Jesus as Savior" routine is a convenience card packaged in a dangerous theology because it sets people up to create their own soapboxes instead of focusing on working with each other in communities. Jesus taught a much brighter path but unfortunately Christianity has become the very institution he fought against.

You have things backwards.

To get forgiveness from sin, you don't forgive others, you make amends for the sins that you did against others.