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That's theologically contradictory because if the Old law did not get abolished until the Resurrection then Jesus taught a violation of the Old law. Why would he give a false teaching? He also didn't give a time reference or limitation
Jesus never said to "accept him as Savior." That is no where in the New Testament. We also know he was not omniscient by his own proclamation so he said to pray to God because there is only one God.
John 14:6
''Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.''
The only way to the Father is through relationship with the Son. Only in relationship with Jesus can we begin to understand unconditional forgiveness. Ever time we forgive others we gain a deeper understanding of the sacrifice Jesus made as payment for our sins.
Jesus was teaching the disciples how to pray in relationship with God as the Father. When we accept Jesus and pray to the Father He no longer sees our sins and brokenness, but sees us in the same light as Jesus.
What false teaching are you claiming He taught?Since the sermon was (obviously) given before His crucifixion, wouldn't it be logical that Jesus would tell them to pray to the Father and not Himself?
His sacrifice hadn't been fulfilled yet.
The price hadn't been paid yet, by Him.
I am still asking my Father to forgive me.
I just do it in the name of Jesus, the One that paid the price for me.
Since He paid that debt, the forgiveness is already paid for. All we have to do is approach our Father, with a humble heart, and accept it in the Spirit it was given!
That's theologically contradictory because if the Old law did not get abolished until the Resurrection then Jesus taught a violation of the Old law. Why would he give a false teaching? He also didn't give a time reference or limitation
Jesus never said to "accept him as Savior." That is no where in the New Testament. We also know he was not omniscient by his own proclamation so he said to pray to God because there is only one God.
And, no, He wouldn't be considered a savior until he was sacrificed, resurrected, and shown to be divine.
Yeshua didn't come for the Jews. Why? HE IS JEWISH!!!!!! The Jews already had a covenant with God because of their ancestor Abraham who recognized the One True God, and because of that, God blessed Abraham's descendents.
Incidentally, in the story where Yeshua goes over and casts demons out of a man into a bunch of swine, well......on his way out of Jerusalem, He saw a fellow Jew who recognized who He was, and Yeshua told the man to be quiet and not tell anyone.
After He cast the demons out of the guy who WASN'T JEWISH? Well, He then tells the man He's cast the demons out of to tell everyone what God had done for him, via Yeshua.
No, He didn't come to save the Jews, they already had their connection to God. He came for the nations of the world, or to put it another way........everyone who WASN'T Jewish.
There are a few problems with this theory. The first is Jews converted to Christianity. The second is Hebrews 8 spells it out pretty clearly the covenant brought by Jesus replaced the old covenant which means Jews were not in a saddle of immunity if they had to pony up to this new covenant.
There were some Jews who believed what you are claiming which is why Paul spent a good deal of time with reconciliations between Jewish and Gentile Christians. Romans deals a lot on this particular issue.
Jesus didn't come to say Jews are "God's chosen people." He came to say everyone was loved by God and had direct access to God's love and forgiveness without the need for silly ceremonies and jaw dropping extortion schemes run by pretty thieves in a formal hierachical structure.
Jews did not convert to christianity
Some jews rebelled against G-D and converted to christianity.
It's important to understand and explain in what sense Jesus fulfilled the Law; if we claim it. If people who accept Jesus as Christ truly understood it, many of their claims would cease.
God's plan of salvation is given in Lev. 16. The Day of atonement. Jesus fulfilled his role as the sin sacrifice. Without the willing sacrifice Jesus, God's plan could not be completed.
However, there is more to the Day of Atonement than the sacrifice of the Lamb of God. The claim by some who are followers of Jesus that he fulfilled all the Law is wrong. Claims that we are no longer under the Law is not only bad doctrine, it is dangerous both physically and spiritually.
Most of the truly bad doctrine I see being posted seems to be coming from Christians who base their understanding strictly on the New Testament.
God told the prophet Hosea to marry into whoredome. He did. She strayed. Hosea loved her and accepted her completely when she came home. I believe the story to be a metaphor for Christ's love for his bride the church. No matter how far she strays, Christ loves her.
It's important to understand and explain in what sense Jesus fulfilled the Law; if we claim it. If people who accept Jesus as Christ truly understood it, many of their claims would cease.
God's plan of salvation is given in Lev. 16. The Day of atonement. Jesus fulfilled his role as the sin sacrifice. Without the willing sacrifice Jesus, God's plan could not be completed.
However, there is more to the Day of Atonement than the sacrifice of the Lamb of God. The claim by some who are followers of Jesus that he fulfilled all the Law is wrong. Claims that we are no longer under the Law is not only bad doctrine, it is dangerous both physically and spiritually.
Most of the truly bad doctrine I see being posted seems to be coming from Christians who base their understanding strictly on the New Testament.
God told the prophet Hosea to marry into whoredome. He did. She strayed. Hosea loved her and accepted her completely when she came home. I believe the story to be a metaphor for Christ's love for his bride the church. No matter how far she strays, Christ loves her.
The "Law" is not endemic to "rules" or Commandments. It is also a euphemism for the Old Testament itself which contains many prophecies so instead of looking at it as Jesus fulfilled the "Law" it makes most sense to see it as Jesus fulfilled the prophecies. What Jesus fulfilled is spelled out pretty clearly:
Heb 8:13
"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."
It's important to understand and explain in what sense Jesus fulfilled the Law; if we claim it. If people who accept Jesus as Christ truly understood it, many of their claims would cease.
God's plan of salvation is given in Lev. 16. The Day of atonement. Jesus fulfilled his role as the sin sacrifice. Without the willing sacrifice Jesus, God's plan could not be completed.
However, there is more to the Day of Atonement than the sacrifice of the Lamb of God. The claim by some who are followers of Jesus that he fulfilled all the Law is wrong. Claims that we are no longer under the Law is not only bad doctrine, it is dangerous both physically and spiritually.
Most of the truly bad doctrine I see being posted seems to be coming from Christians who base their understanding strictly on the New Testament.
God told the prophet Hosea to marry into whoredome. He did. She strayed. Hosea loved her and accepted her completely when she came home. I believe the story to be a metaphor for Christ's love for his bride the church. No matter how far she strays, Christ loves her.
"Without the willing sacrifice Jesus, God's plan could not be completed"
G-D doesn't need anyone or anything to complete his plan. G-D can do whatever he wants.
And neither G-D nor the jews needed or need jesus for anything.
The "sacrifice of lamb" is a christian creation. It has nothing to do with jews or G-D.
The link below explains how jews get forgiveness from sin:
Spiraling Towards Repentance - My Jewish Learning
What is interesting too is that before jews can ask G-D for forgiveness regarding sin against their fellow man, they must first ask forgiveness from the person that they sinned against.
It's interesting that it seems that christians concentrate on giving forgiveness rather attoning for sin.
The story of Hosea has nothing to do with jesus. It is a metaphor regarding the jews and G-D. That G-D will always accept the jews back.
The only person/being that jews are allowed to have a relationship with is the one and only G-D, as shown from the passages that I quoted.
It's important to understand and explain in what sense Jesus fulfilled the Law; if we claim it. If people who accept Jesus as Christ truly understood it, many of their claims would cease.
God's plan of salvation is given in Lev. 16. The Day of atonement. Jesus fulfilled his role as the sin sacrifice. Without the willing sacrifice Jesus, God's plan could not be completed.
However, there is more to the Day of Atonement than the sacrifice of the Lamb of God. The claim by some who are followers of Jesus that he fulfilled all the Law is wrong. Claims that we are no longer under the Law is not only bad doctrine, it is dangerous both physically and spiritually.
Most of the truly bad doctrine I see being posted seems to be coming from Christians who base their understanding strictly on the New Testament.
God told the prophet Hosea to marry into whoredome. He did. She strayed. Hosea loved her and accepted her completely when she came home. I believe the story to be a metaphor for Christ's love for his bride the church. No matter how far she strays, Christ loves her.
"Without the willing sacrifice Jesus, God's plan could not be completed"
G-D doesn't need anyone or anything to complete his plan. G-D can do whatever he wants.
And neither G-D nor the jews needed or need jesus for anything.
The "sacrifice of lamb" is a christian creation. It has nothing to do with jews or G-D.
The link below explains how jews get forgiveness from sin:
Spiraling Towards Repentance - My Jewish Learning
What is interesting too is that before jews can ask G-D for forgiveness regarding sin against their fellow man, they must first ask forgiveness from the person that they sinned against.
It's interesting that it seems that christians concentrate on giving forgiveness rather attoning for sin.
The story of Hosea has nothing to do with jesus. It is a metaphor regarding the jews and G-D. That G-D will always accept the jews back.
The only person/being that jews are allowed to have a relationship with is the one and only G-D, as shown from the passages that I quoted.
And how do non-Jews get forgiveness?
You kinda left out a couple, didn't ya?Jesus didn't fulfill any of the messianic prophesies either, other than being born in bethlehem and writing a donkey.
You kinda left out a couple, didn't ya?Jesus didn't fulfill any of the messianic prophesies either, other than being born in bethlehem and writing a donkey.
The chart didn't copy well but below is a list of the prophecy followed, by the scripture where it can be found, followed by how He fulfilled it.
Messianic Prophecies
The Messiah will be the offspring (descendant) of the woman (Eve) Genesis 3:15 Galatians 4:4Most people come from women
The Messiah will be a descendant of Abraham, through whom everyone on earth will be blessed Genesis 12:3; 18:18 Acts 3:25,26all jews come from abraham
The Messiah will be a descendant of Judah Genesis 49:10 Matthew 1:2 and Luke 3:33True
The Messiah will be a prophet like Mosesyup Deuteronomy 18:15-19 Acts 3:22,23
The Messiah will be the Son of GodNope. There is no such thing as a son of G-D. G-D clearly stated that there is only him Psalm 2:7 Matthew 3:17; Mark 1:11; Luke 3:22
The Messiah will be raised from the dead (resurrected)nope Psalm 16:10,11 Matthew 28:5-9; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:4-7; John 20:11-16; Acts 1:3 and 2:32
The Messiah crucifixion experiencenope. Psalm 22 (contains 11 propheciesnot all listed here) Matthew 27:34-50 and John 19:17-30
The Messiah will be sneered at and mocked nopePsalm 22:7 Luke 23:11,35-39
The Messiah will be pierced through hands and feet nope. christian creation
Psalm 22:16 Luke 23:33 and 24:36-39;
John 19:18 and 20:19-20,24-27
The Messiahs bones will not be broken (a persons legs were usually broken after being crucified to speed up their death)no clue what you are talking bout Psalm 22:17 and 34:20 John 19:31-33,36
Men Will Gamble for the Messiahs clothing nopePsalm 22:18 Matthew 27:35; Mark 15:24; Luke 23:34; John 19:23,24
The Messiah will accused by false witnessesnope Psalm 35:11 Matthew 26:59,60 and Mark 14:56,57
The Messiah will be hated without a causenope Psalm 35:19 and 69:4 John 15:23-25
The Messiah will be betrayed by a friend Psalm nope. bad translations41:9 John 13:18,21
The Messiah is a stone the builders rejected who will become the head cornerstonePsalm 118:22,23 and Isaiah 28:16 Matthew 21:42,43; Acts 4:11; Ephesians 2:20; 1 Peter 2:6-8
The Messiah will be a descendant of Davidyup, which jesus wasn't Psalm 132:11 and Jeremiah 23:5,6; 33:15,16 Luke 1:32,33
The Messiah will be a born of a virginnope. Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:18-25 and Luke 1:26-35
"Without the willing sacrifice Jesus, God's plan could not be completed"
G-D doesn't need anyone or anything to complete his plan. G-D can do whatever he wants.
And neither G-D nor the jews needed or need jesus for anything.
The "sacrifice of lamb" is a christian creation. It has nothing to do with jews or G-D.
The link below explains how jews get forgiveness from sin:
Spiraling Towards Repentance - My Jewish Learning
What is interesting too is that before jews can ask G-D for forgiveness regarding sin against their fellow man, they must first ask forgiveness from the person that they sinned against.
It's interesting that it seems that christians concentrate on giving forgiveness rather attoning for sin.
The story of Hosea has nothing to do with jesus. It is a metaphor regarding the jews and G-D. That G-D will always accept the jews back.
The only person/being that jews are allowed to have a relationship with is the one and only G-D, as shown from the passages that I quoted.
And how do non-Jews get forgiveness?
I presume in the same way.
)
CMike, I can see that any further discussion between the two of us, on this matter will eat up a lot of bandwidth.
Besides, "nope" not being a valid rebuttal, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree because I honestly have had this discussion far too many times and it rarely accomplishes anything.
Translation = I'm at work and don't have the time, patience, or inclination to address each point
(I start vacation tomorrow, though
And how do non-Jews get forgiveness?
I presume in the same way.
How can non-Jews receive repentence when not following Judaism? Are you saying anyone can receive repentence via the steps in that article?
