Cherry Picking Jesus Apart

[CurveLight]

We are all familiar with verses like Jn 3:16 + 14:6 which are often used to claim "Salvation" is found only through "accepting Jesus as your personal Savior." For now, let's set aside the fact Jesus never actually said that and go only with the common Christian myth that accepting Jesus is Salvation. For those who adhere to that dogma how do you explain Jesus' words saying we are to pray to God to "forgive our sins as we forgive those who sin against us?" (Lk. 11:4) If forgiveness from God is on the condition we forgive those who sin against us then the Get out of Hell Free card is a token of cherry picking. It's lazy theology.

I accepted Christ on March 28, 1999 and was Baptized on July 30, 2000 so I am not some agnostic or curious atheist. The idea of blanket forgiveness from God for all we have done wrong is a sweet, but dangerous fantasy. Jesus did not specifically address the issue of forgiveness in the Lord's Prayer because he needed a filler line. He did it to highlight the fact forgiveness from God is found in our forgiveness of others. This is what he preached, practiced, and gave his life defending.

The main message in that one line is forgiveness from God is not found in a cure all ceremony. It is a lifestyle. By teaching people to just "accept Christ as their personal Saviour" a false teaching of Christ is being presented and the fallout is in obvious abundance. Instead of more Christians focusing on Jesus' teachings they follow bigotry in many forms. Islam gets blamed for terrorism. Gays get blamed for hurricanes. Women are blamed for abortion.

All of that bigotry, hatred, and ridiculous ignorance is born out of a failed theology. People are taught if they "accept Christ" they are forgiven but what they are not taught is what Jesus actually stated. When they do not have the Peace that was promised they look around for someone to blame and they tend to blame anyone who has not "accepted Christ" as they have.

Instead of cherry picking Jesus apart all of us Christians have a heavy burden of examining everything he said and not just what makes us comfortable.

 

[tsalkonocii]

let's set aside the fact Jesus never actually said

THE way, not A way

Why Jesus is the only Way to salvation

Women are blamed for abortion.

The women who have them, yeah. 'Blaming' people for their own actions isn't blame- it's responsibility.

 

[CurveLight]

let's set aside the fact Jesus never actually said

THE way, not A way

Why Jesus is the only Way to salvation

Women are blamed for abortion.

The women who have them, yeah. 'Blaming' people for their own actions isn't blame- it's responsibility.

I didn't know putting "Cherry Picking" in the thread title would be seen as encouraging cherry picking the op.

Jesus never said to accept him as your "personal Saviour." How do you explain what he actually did say in Luke 11:4?

 

[tsalkonocii]

Jesus never said to accept him as your "personal Saviour." How do you explain what he actually did say in Luke 11:4?

Forgive us our trespasses? You really need an explanation of why he says to ask forgiveness?

never said to accept him as your personal saviour?

John 14:6

I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.​

 

[CurveLight]

let's set aside the fact Jesus never actually said

THE way, not A way

Why Jesus is the only Way to salvation

Women are blamed for abortion.

The women who have them, yeah. 'Blaming' people for their own actions isn't blame- it's responsibility.

Jesus never said to accept him as your "personal Saviour." How do you explain what he actually did say in Luke 11:4?

Forgive us our trespasses? You really need an explanation of why he says to ask forgiveness?

never said to accept him as your personal saviour?

John 14:6

I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.​

One last attempt with you. Jesus taught in the Lord's Prayer that we are to pray to God and ask God "to forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us."

Clearly he is saying God will forgive us as we forgive those who sin against us so how can it be claimed forgiveness from God is found only in "accepting Jesus?"

 

[tsalkonocii]

You have to ask forgiveness and accept Jesus as your saviour. It's not just about forgiveness. The debt had to be paid. You must accept Jesus' gift, which is that he has paid the price for you.


See my first link, read your bible, and return when you know what you're talking about.

 

[tsalkonocii]

Curvedlight seeks to deceive and to mislead. Knowingly or otherwise, curvedlight is an agent of Lucifer, who seeks to corrupt the Word and mislead men so they will not accept jesus and the Word of God.

Jesus warned of people like you.

 

[CurveLight]

Curvedlight seeks to deceive and to mislead. Knowingly or otherwise, curvedlight is an agent of Lucifer, who seeks to corrupt the Word and mislead men so they will not accept jesus and the Word of God.

Jesus warned of people like you.

You completely ignored the question then accuse me of being an agent of Lucifer. Priceless.

 

[HUGGY]

Curvedlight seeks to deceive and to mislead. Knowingly or otherwise, curvedlight is an agent of Lucifer, who seeks to corrupt the Word and mislead men so they will not accept jesus and the Word of God.

Jesus warned of people like you.

Christian fundimentalists are certifiably bat shit crazy and every bit as dangerous as the most radical elements of muslim terrorists.

 

[tsalkonocii]

curvedlight was the one who assumed jesus/the bible was an authority


and what's a 'fundimentalist'?

 

[HUGGY]

curvedlight was the one who assumed jesus/the bible was an authority


and what's a 'fundimentalist'?

Someone willfully ignorant of reality and truth in pushing their myth and fantasy on others.

 

[JoLouis]

You have to ask forgiveness and accept Jesus as your saviour. It's not just about forgiveness. The debt had to be paid. You must accept Jesus' gift, which is that he has paid the price for you.


See my first link, read your bible, and return when you know what you're talking about.

I think it's really big of you to accept a gay man (jesus) as your savior.

 

[tsalkonocii]

You have to ask forgiveness and accept Jesus as your saviour. It's not just about forgiveness. The debt had to be paid. You must accept Jesus' gift, which is that he has paid the price for you.


See my first link, read your bible, and return when you know what you're talking about.

I think it's really big of you to accept a gay man (jesus) as your savior.

Is that really the best you can do? You're never going to catch any fish like that. Try changing your bait, lengthening the lines, and slowing the boat a bit.

 

[Smartt33]

Curvelight: We are all familiar with verses like Jn 3:16 + 14:6 which are often used to claim "Salvation" is found only through "accepting Jesus as your personal Savior." For now, let's set aside the fact Jesus never actually said that and go only with the common Christian myth that accepting Jesus is Salvation. For those who adhere to that dogma how do you explain Jesus' words saying we are to pray to God to "forgive our sins as we forgive those who sin against us?" (Lk. 11:4) If forgiveness from God is on the condition we forgive those who sin against us then the Get out of Hell Free card is a token of cherry picking. It's lazy theology.

Smartt33: The model prayer is for people who are already Christians. It is about a relationship with God that already exists in Christ. We will still find ourselves falling into sin from time to time, and we do need to be forgiven. The forgiveness being discussed here is about that relationship, not about salvation. However, it is hypocritical to ask for forgiveness and not give it. God expects us to live the life of one who is filled with the Holy Spirit. As we forgive others we are living the life of the believer and in the same way we forgive others we can ask for forgiveness. If we do not forgive others, we can expect to be out of fellowship with God. So, summary, These verses are about an already existing relationship with God through a salvation that has already taken place. Our treatment of others and our repentant life are what allows us to have that ”abundant” relationship with God.

Curvelight: I accepted Christ on March 28, 1999 and was Baptized on July 30, 2000 so I am not some agnostic or curious atheist. The idea of blanket forgiveness from God for all we have done wrong is a sweet, but dangerous fantasy. Jesus did not specifically address the issue of forgiveness in the Lord's Prayer because he needed a filler line. He did it to highlight the fact forgiveness from God is found in our forgiveness of others. This is what he preached, practiced, and gave his life defending.

Smartt33: The forgiveness that leads to salvation, and the one that provides an open and awesome daily fellowship with God are not the same. God has indeed forgiven all past, present, and future sins of the believer. However, when we do sin, the forgiveness we are asking for is not for salvation, but for the cleaning up of the darkness between us and our active fellowship with God. We already have an eternal relationship with Him, but the daily one is about obedience.

Curvelight: The main message in that one line is forgiveness from God is not found in a cure all ceremony. It is a lifestyle. By teaching people to just "accept Christ as their personal Saviour" a false teaching of Christ is being presented and the fallout is in obvious abundance. Instead of more Christians focusing on Jesus' teachings they follow bigotry in many forms. Islam gets blamed for terrorism. Gays get blamed for hurricanes. Women are blamed for abortion.

Smartt33: It is clear in the reading of the NT that if the light is not in us, Jesus is not in us. If we don’t love then Jesus is not in us. If we live in sin as our lifestyle, Jesus is not in us. However, When Jesus is in us, we cannot live a lifestyle of sin. Giving Jesus Lordship and the place of Messiah in our lives produces salvation, forgiveness produces fellowship. Islam is not responsible for terrorism, Islamic terrorists are. Gays are not responsible for hurricanes, however, the moral deterioration of the country may be. Women are not the cause of abortions, greed and laziness, and in many cases immorality of the sexual partners who produced the baby in the first place are. You are just taking the words of a few, and applying it broad brushed to all Christians.

Curvelight: All of that bigotry, hatred, and ridiculous ignorance is born out of a failed theology. People are taught if they "accept Christ" they are forgiven but what they are not taught is what Jesus actually stated. When they do not have the Peace that was promised they look around for someone to blame and they tend to blame anyone who has not "accepted Christ" as they have.

Smartt33: First, when they do not have the peace they were promised, they did not trust Christ, they just made unjust claims to His promises. They are lost as a goose. Second, Bigotry and all hatred come from the Devil, and God doesn’t know those people in the salvation experience. Ridiculous ignorance comes from lack of doing what God has said in His word, “Be ye transformed by the renewing of your minds.” When one does not spend a lot of time in His Word, one is ignorant.

Curvelight: Instead of cherry picking Jesus apart all of us Christians have a heavy burden of examining everything he said and not just what makes us comfortable.

Smartt33: Agreed. We should not even consider being comfortable.

 

[Smartt33]

let's set aside the fact Jesus never actually said

THE way, not A way

Why Jesus is the only Way to salvation

Women are blamed for abortion.

The women who have them, yeah. 'Blaming' people for their own actions isn't blame- it's responsibility.

I didn't know putting "Cherry Picking" in the thread title would be seen as encouraging cherry picking the op.

Jesus never said to accept him as your "personal Saviour." How do you explain what he actually did say in Luke 11:4?

Smartt33: The Word says "There is no other name by which man mucs be saved." Jesus made it clear that He was the only way to salvation, So, believe in Him. Believing, in the very reals sense of the word, is not about intellectual belief, but about a genuine commitment to give Him a place of all authority in our lives. When that happens, the Holy Spirit takes residence within us, and holds that place.

 

[eagleseven]

Perhaps we should keep in mind, when reading the Bible, that the authors wrote (and plagiarized) the books over the course of one-hundred years, and had very human motivations for doing so.

For instance, Matthew is clearly written to convert the Jews, while John was written to condemn the Jews.

---

Hence, why Jesus appears to have multiple-personality-disorder when you read the Bible at face value.

 

[Big Black Dog]

I hope I get the opportunity to ask Him about this personally someday.

 

[foggedinn]

Think of scripture as a history of the Order of Melchizedek. Each a Priest and King. Jesus is King of Kings. He is the Lamb of God on the Day of Atonement. Still, He was treated no better than any other prophet.

 

[CurveLight]

Curvelight: We are all familiar with verses like Jn 3:16 + 14:6 which are often used to claim "Salvation" is found only through "accepting Jesus as your personal Savior." For now, let's set aside the fact Jesus never actually said that and go only with the common Christian myth that accepting Jesus is Salvation. For those who adhere to that dogma how do you explain Jesus' words saying we are to pray to God to "forgive our sins as we forgive those who sin against us?" (Lk. 11:4) If forgiveness from God is on the condition we forgive those who sin against us then the Get out of Hell Free card is a token of cherry picking. It's lazy theology.

Smartt33: The model prayer is for people who are already Christians. It is about a relationship with God that already exists in Christ. We will still find ourselves falling into sin from time to time, and we do need to be forgiven. The forgiveness being discussed here is about that relationship, not about salvation. However, it is hypocritical to ask for forgiveness and not give it. God expects us to live the life of one who is filled with the Holy Spirit. As we forgive others we are living the life of the believer and in the same way we forgive others we can ask for forgiveness. If we do not forgive others, we can expect to be out of fellowship with God. So, summary, These verses are about an already existing relationship with God through a salvation that has already taken place. Our treatment of others and our repentant life are what allows us to have that ”abundant” relationship with God..

•truncated•

Jesus taught the prayer prior to the Crucifixion so how could Salavation have already taken place?

You say the forgiveness Jesus speaks of in the prayer is not about salvation yet he is saying God is to forgive us as we forgive those who sin against us. If God forgives through "accepting Jesus" why would forgiveness from God be conditional on us forgiving each other?

 

[amrchaos]

Maybe it is because Jesus is God.

Yes--God is schizo. Sometimes he is Yahweh, other times Jesus Christ.

I am just glad I got past all of that nonsense--It seems like Curve, smart, and even Tsalk could actually be nice people. But their differences over Mystical Nuances is reason enough to insult and fight each other.

Makes you think, with a religion like christianity, who needs the devil?