Cheney's speech ignored some inconvenient truths

[WillowTree]

Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing the victim on his or her back with the head inclined downwards, and then pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages. By forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences drowning and is caused to believe they are about to die.[1] It is considered a form of torture by legal experts,[2][3] politicians, war veterans,[4][5] medical experts in the treatment of torture victims,[6][7] intelligence officials,[8] military judges,[9] and human rights organizations.[10][11] As early as the Spanish Inquisition it was used for interrogation purposes, to punish and intimidate, and to force confessions.[12]

In contrast to submerging the head face-forward in water, waterboarding precipitates an almost immediate gag reflex.[13] The technique does not inevitably cause lasting physical damage. It can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints, lasting psychological damage or, if uninterrupted, death.[2] Adverse physical consequences can start manifesting months after the event; psychological effects can last for years.[6]

In 2007 it was reported that the CIA was using waterboarding on extrajudicial prisoners and that the United States Department of Justice had authorized the procedure,[14][15] a revelation that sparked a worldwide political scandal. Al-Qaeda suspects upon whom the CIA is known to have used waterboarding are Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah, and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri.[16][17]

In January 2009 U.S. President Barack Obama banned the use of waterboarding. In April 2009 the Department of Defense refused to say whether it was still used for training purposes.[18]

Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now......all you assholes out there that say waterboarding is not torture, I would urge you to look it up and read about it for yourselves. It DOES cause long lasting effects, causes pain, and damages the body.

Personally? Since it was used by Pol Pot as a way to elicit FALSE CONFESSIONS from his own people (those whom he didn't like and wished to have executed or put in jail), I'm wondering how long you dumb fuckers can sit there and keep justifying it.

Shit.......even conservative talk show radio host Man Cow (who is a Limbidiot disciple) said (after only lasting 6 seconds) that it was torture.

We also know (because Greenspan said so on the news) that the Iraq war was nothing more than a power grab for the oil fields there, as well as revenge for Saddam Hussein's threat on Bush Sr.'s life.

Speaking of which, you know WHY Cheney is fighting so hard to justify it? It's simple really........Halliburton and KBR (of which he still has a major interest), were making mucho dinero off of this war. Cheney is all over the screen because he knows that he's gonna go broke from all the shoddy work that those companies have done (anyone remember the soldiers dying in the showers of Iraq as well as Walter Reed?).

Personally, I hope they release the (non existent) memos, as well as prosecute the entire Bush Jr. admin for war crimes in the Hague, and their new address is Spandau.

This country has been fucked over long enough by the incest of the GOP as they currently stand.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uniIbRw1bzY&feature=related]YouTube - Funny Donkey Sound[/ame]

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing the victim on his or her back with the head inclined downwards, and then pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages. By forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences drowning and is caused to believe they are about to die.[1] It is considered a form of torture by legal experts,[2][3] politicians, war veterans,[4][5] medical experts in the treatment of torture victims,[6][7] intelligence officials,[8] military judges,[9] and human rights organizations.[10][11] As early as the Spanish Inquisition it was used for interrogation purposes, to punish and intimidate, and to force confessions.[12]

In contrast to submerging the head face-forward in water, waterboarding precipitates an almost immediate gag reflex.[13] The technique does not inevitably cause lasting physical damage. It can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints, lasting psychological damage or, if uninterrupted, death.[2] Adverse physical consequences can start manifesting months after the event; psychological effects can last for years.[6]

In 2007 it was reported that the CIA was using waterboarding on extrajudicial prisoners and that the United States Department of Justice had authorized the procedure,[14][15] a revelation that sparked a worldwide political scandal. Al-Qaeda suspects upon whom the CIA is known to have used waterboarding are Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah, and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri.[16][17]

In January 2009 U.S. President Barack Obama banned the use of waterboarding. In April 2009 the Department of Defense refused to say whether it was still used for training purposes.[18]

Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now......all you assholes out there that say waterboarding is not torture, I would urge you to look it up and read about it for yourselves. It DOES cause long lasting effects, causes pain, and damages the body.

Personally? Since it was used by Pol Pot as a way to elicit FALSE CONFESSIONS from his own people (those whom he didn't like and wished to have executed or put in jail), I'm wondering how long you dumb fuckers can sit there and keep justifying it.

Shit.......even conservative talk show radio host Man Cow (who is a Limbidiot disciple) said (after only lasting 6 seconds) that it was torture.

We also know (because Greenspan said so on the news) that the Iraq war was nothing more than a power grab for the oil fields there, as well as revenge for Saddam Hussein's threat on Bush Sr.'s life.

Speaking of which, you know WHY Cheney is fighting so hard to justify it? It's simple really........Halliburton and KBR (of which he still has a major interest), were making mucho dinero off of this war. Cheney is all over the screen because he knows that he's gonna go broke from all the shoddy work that those companies have done (anyone remember the soldiers dying in the showers of Iraq as well as Walter Reed?).

Personally, I hope they release the (non existent) memos, as well as prosecute the entire Bush Jr. admin for war crimes in the Hague, and their new address is Spandau.

This country has been fucked over long enough by the incest of the GOP as they currently stand.

WIKI-pedia... that oracle of all leftist knowledge... incontestable, RIGHT UP TO THE POINT where it skewers their sacred cow...

But seriously folks...

Torture is a term of relevance... and what is appropriately labeled 'torture' for one individual in a given circumstance is not worthy of that label in another...

Most people would claim that a root canal is 'torture'... but few would be able to agree that where we provided a root canal for one of these few individuals which were waterboarded, that such was tantamount to actual torture... Despite that we provided that root canal as a means to coerce them into cooperating with us and provide the time sensitive information we reasonably believed that they possessed, that was necessary to prevent further slaughter of innocent men, woman and children...

I've been water-boarded and I've implemented such on others... let there be no doubt that it is a very scary process and it is by no means pleasant... but it's not torture... when it's being used a people who took it upon themselves to MURDER thousands of innocent people...

The Rust-picker is an idiot... she's NEVER going to understand... But for those who do possess the means to reason, understand that torture can mean anything to anyone given their circumstances...

When these idiots have been shown video of ACTUAL torture... what is there response?

"Just because the US isn't doing stuff that is THAT BAD..."

See how that works... torture is the word that is used to describe... REALLY BAD STUFF... and that which they readily admit is 'not that bad'...

But ya have to realize, they don't use the word to IMPART the 'its not that bad' stuff... they want you to believe that what the US is doing is the REALLY BAD STUFF! Thus there use of the word 'torture' is to impart a MYTH, which is based upon lies... which is sustained through empty platitudes...

But that's the nature of evil... Now isn't it?

 

[rayboyusmc]

Only Pogo would argue that torture is in the eye of the beholder.

Why is it that all the folks who have been waterboarded say it is torture, Pogo, and none of those saying it isn't were ever waterboarded?

This arguement will continue until all those who say it isn't torture are waterboarded.

Here is how effective it is:

KSM was captured in 2003, and liquid dousing him (the new rightie term) was credited by the Rush for foiling a plot against Los Angeles in 2002 using Nukes:

LIMBAUGH VERSION
Rush Limbaugh reported on his radio show yesterday, May 21 2009, that L.A. avoided a nuclear attack because of information gleaned by the C.I.A from waterboarding a key terrorist:

"Now, the waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and two others -- just so you remember, folks -- led to the successful obstruction of an attack of the city of Los Angeles. Every one of you in Los Angeles should know that had Barack Obama been president the last eight years, your city would have suffered a nuclear attack. Waterboarding saved an attack on Los Angeles."

LIBERAL REJOINDER
This morning, May 22, Stephanie Miller begged to differ, calling Limbaugh’s account an outright lie based on reports from an unnamed FBI official. Writer Timothy Noah asserted the same in an article last month in liberal ezine Slate.com:

“In a White House press briefing, Bush's counterterrorism chief, Frances Fragos Townsend, told reporters that the cell leader was arrested in February 2002, and "at that point, the other members of the cell" (later arrested) "believed that the West Coast plot has been canceled, was not going forward" [italics mine]. A subsequent fact sheet released by the Bush White House states, "In 2002, we broke up [italics mine] a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast." These two statements make clear that however far the plot to attack the Library Tower ever got -- an unnamed senior FBI official would later tell the Los Angeles Times that Bush's characterization of it as a "disrupted plot" was "ludicrous" -- that plot was foiled in 2002. But Sheikh Mohammed wasn't captured until March 2003.”

Noah then concludes: “If foiling the Library Tower plot was the reason to water-board Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, then that water-boarding was more than cruel and unjust. It was a waste of water.”

Chicago Nonpartisan Examiner: Limbaugh and liberals clash on L.A. terrorist attack

 

[rayboyusmc]

Most people would claim that a root canal is 'torture'... but few would be able to agree that where we provided a root canal for one of these few individuals which were waterboarded, that such was tantamount to actual torture...

Wow, now I believe you. This is almost Cheneyesque.

Let's say I did that root canal on you when you didn't need it and without novocaine, Pogo, would that be torture?

If there is an after life, God will sort this all out and no one will lie their way out of anything.

On the other hand, if there isn't................

 

[ABikerSailor]

Speaking of 'tards........check out the Puberty Idiot who is trying to pass his Salvation Army ass off as a Marine.

I'd be willing to bet he's never served, or, if he did.......he did so in the same vein that Bush Jr. did.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Speaking of 'tards........check out the Puberty Idiot who is trying to pass his Salvation Army ass off as a Marine.

I'd be willing to bet he's never served, or, if he did.......he did so in the same vein that Bush Jr. did.

No... you just CLAIM that you're willing to bet and then you feign acceptance, but never quiiite commit, but if the wager falls your way... you're QUICK to demand payment.

We've some experience on this issue and you proved yourself a loathesome douschebag... of no discernible character.

 

[garyd]

Anybody can right a story claiming intelligence experts say xyz get back to me when he names actual names. Who is Blair what does he know? Is there any support for his opinion other than him and the wet dreams of a thousand leftists?

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Only Pogo would argue that torture is in the eye of the beholder.

Why is it that all the folks who have been waterboarded say it is torture, Pogo, and none of those saying it isn't were ever waterboarded?

Well, that would be a well thought out position... which has taken all of the input provided by the board into consideration... except it lack two fundamental elements... it's poorly reasoned and it's indicative of having no consideration of any of the positions posted by the board...

For instance, I've been water-boarded... AND I've water-boarded others... thus of the TWO of us, I am the only one that has any fucking idea WHAT it is... Making ME the expert... Making MY perspective VASTLY more knowledgable about this issue in terms of what the process invloves and in terms of what it feels like to have it implemented on YOU and what it feels and looks like to do it to someone else... and I will tell you that it is NOT torture, when the subject is a mass murderer, who's holding information which is needed to save lives...

Screw THEM... and not so coincidentally... SCREW YOU!

These people aren't victims and they wouldn't BE victims if the 7th Marines held 'em down, lifted a phone pole and shoved it up their ass..

And I for one and sick and tired of the Advocates of Hope and Change trying to turn the ENEMY INTO THE VICTIMS...

What is amazing to me, is I've never had ANYONE try to push this position to my face...

A TON of this kind of pro-terrorist bravado on the web... but NO ONE seems willing to overtly defend THE ENEMIES OF AMERICA like this, in person.

I frankly don't think I'd have a problem at all taking an assault charge where I could report that the assault was a result of the individual inciting subversion through speech which sought to make the enemy THE FREAKIN' VICTIMS...

But again folks... this only goes to prove, once again that...

THERE ARE NO LEFTIST AMERICANS!

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Anybody can right a story claiming intelligence experts say xyz get back to me when he names actual names.

Who is Blair what does he know? Is there any support for his opinion other than him and the wet dreams of a thousand leftists?

No... there's no support of any kind... its pure supposition which is being implied to represent FACT. Which if one is bright enough to recognize that, it's no big deal... but when you put this kind of propaganda in front of the Pogue and the Rust Picker... they can barely READ, let alone REASON so all this does is feed the idiocy.