Cheney ordered concealment of counter-terrorism from Congress

[Centrism'sVoice]

Yeah, I guess its fair to compare Obama economic policies with a terrorist attack.

For the sake of your dignity, I hope that was "humor fail."

 

[Meister]

I've done plenty of research, thank you very much, and in terms of job losses, the 2001 downturn was equally bad. Want the numbers? Start another thread and I'll post them.

Two things: (1) none of the above has anything to do with "subprime" lending, which was at the root of the bubble, and (2) both Democrats AND Republicans in Congress were bought off by lobbyists to create lax enough regulations to allow a subprime market. Much like what happened with the stock market in the 20s, by the way.

Just because you say so doesn't make it so.

Aug 1981 – Dec 1982 17 -2,838,000 -3.10%
Nov 1974 – Apr 1975 6 -2,164,000 -2.75%
Jan 2008 – Jan 2009 13 -3,498,000 -2.53%
May 1960 – Feb 1961 10 -1,256,000 -2.29%
Mar 2001 – May 2002 15 -2,202,000 -1.66%
Jul 1990 – May 1991 11 -1,621,000 -1.48%
Apr 1980 – Jul 1980 4 -1,159,000 -1.27%
Historical Perspective on the Jan 2009 US Job Losses | Live Granades

Now what were you sayin?

A blogger who doesn't cite his sources and can't even spell "grenade?" I'm not the one here.

I do agree with you on it is both parties at fault for the housing bubble. You were implying that Bush was talking about the "culture of ownership'. I am just stating he was trying to get congress on the problem of the bubble, which they did nothing. Now you mention subprime lending...you didn't mention it before so, I guess the game is changing for you.....but the lending IS directly connected to to the whole package of what went down. The only way unqualified people could get homes was through this manner. The government just turned a blind eye to it. Hey have a good day.

At least we agree that Obama inherited this mess. Enjoy your day, too, huh? [/QUOTE]

That's it? Well, then just ignore the facts.....You're losing my respect.

Of course, Obama inherited a mess, but he's compounding it with with his agenda. The deficit running up, and really the only ones to benefit from the stimulus is the unions. So, it's Obama's mess also.

 

[Dr Grump]

It was never this bad in the past 8 years!

Bull. It was just this bad after 2001. The housing bubble in the last half of Bush-II was (as we now know) not a recovery at all, but a scam to cover the ongoing economic troubles. Remember how he so loved to preach about the "culture of ownership?"

Possibly it was a thing called "Nine Eleven" that had something to do with that? But, having said that...it wasn't this bad after 2001, do some research on the stats.
You have to really go back to the roots of the "Housing Bubble", which started under the Carter Administration.

In 1977, the Carter Administration passed the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) that required banks to offer an even disbursement of credit throughout the financial market in an attempt to curb past lending practices that targeted more desirable markets. At the time, Republican critics charged that such an act would impose unnecessary regulatory burdens on lending institutions and distort credit markets by forcing banks to offer loans to under-qualified applicants.

In 1995, the Clinton Administration pushed even harder to increase the supply of affordable housing to low-income families by offering performance-based incentives (Lowered Standards) . According to economist Stan Liebowitz, these developments led to a loosening of lending standards that required no verification of income or assets, little consideration of the applicant's ability to make payments, and no down payment payments. The net effect was an inevitable collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac at the cost of its investors.

In April of 2001, the Bush Administration first red flagged Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac stating that "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity."

On September 10th of 2003, Treasury Secretary John Snow recommended to the House Financial Services Committee that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements
In November of 2003, the Bush Administration upgraded their warning to a "systemic risk" that could very well extend beyond the confines of the housing market. In a July report, written by external investigators, it concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors. And other critics pointed out that Fannie Mae did not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.

In November of 2003, Council of the Economic Advisers, Chairman Greg Mankiw, argued that "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk." And in order to do such, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (Remarks of Dr. N. Gregory Mankiw Chairman Council of Economic Advisers at the Annual Meeting of the National Association of Business Economists)

In February of 2005, President Bush's Budget plan emphasized the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their sub-par levels of capital. The Bush's plan called for the creation of a new, world-class regulator saying, "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore…should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator.

On February 17th of 2005, Alan Greenspan, at the behest of President Bush, suggested that Congress limit the growth of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac saying, "Enabling these institutions to increase in size - and they will once the crisis in their judgment passes - we are placing the total financial system of the future at substantial risk."

On April 6th of 2005, Chairman Alan Greenspan told the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, U.S. Senate (Greenspan's Testimony).
The Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac Debacle

You might want to read the whole article, it has some good quotes from some leading democrats.....just sayin.....

You seem to have conveniently forgotten Raygun deregulating the building societies in 1982....

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

[That's it? Well, then just ignore the facts.....Your losing my respect.

Well, if you had said, "You're losing my respect," you would have had me worried.

Not that you've presented any facts to show a cause-and-effect relationship between any part of Obama's agenda and any "compounding" mess...

 

[Meister]

[That's it? Well, then just ignore the facts.....You're losing my respect.

Well, if you had said, "You're losing my respect," you would have had me worried.

Not that you've presented any facts to show a cause-and-effect relationship between any part of Obama's agenda and any "compounding" mess...

Corrected the typo for you...I want it to be clear.
Your morphing the post you started. Go back, look what you posted, then look what I posted to refresh your short term memory loss. I stand on my words and facts presented, you just brought some empty words to your post.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

Your morphing the post you started. Go back, look what you posted, then look what I posted to refresh your short term memory loss. I stand on my words and facts presented, you just brought some empty words to your post.

I'm morphing the post because you're bringing up new arguments - neither of which I have a problem with. Why do you?

But going back to the first point for a moment. You began by saying that the economy went sour in 2001 because of 9/11. And up to a point I agree: 9/11 was a huge factor. But don't forget that even before the hijackings, energy prices had gone artificially high (again), the dot-com bubble had burst, economists all agreed a recession was going on, and companies were handing out pink slips on a mass scale, just like now. And I'll say again - because you never really responded to it - that the perceived housing boom did not actually correct the problems that resulted from this earlier recession.

Standing on your words and facts is useless if all you're doing is evading the opposing argument.

 

[Harry Dresden]

You are an idiot...a fuckin' idiot if I must say so. You fail to recognize the difference between "defenders of freedom" and despots. I am no worshiper of dictators. It is left to dictators to dispose of political enemies in the cloak of night.

Again, I say...fuck all of you that think we should play fairly with terrorists. Fuck y'all...big time.

You're impaired in more than just your sense of humor, I see. Okay, welcome to my ignore list, now run along and play with your toy soldiers.

do you put everyone who disagrees with you on your "ignore list" asswipe?....so far thats 3 people in 2 days...Center voice my aching ass....

 

[PoliticalChic]

And who just bought the WSJ...oh yeah, he also owns FOX. Hhhhmmm

I notice that you were honest enough not to question my statement that the WSJ has an editorial policy that does not influence its news coverage.

This is not, of course, the same with the (liberal) NYTimes, and may account for the drop in readership of the Times, but not so with the Journal.

And of course FOX news is totally unbiased also, correct? I will agree the Times is biased but I wager you won't agree that FOX is right wing.

Fox is the closest to fair and balance we have.

The mainstream media, broadcast and print, is populated by left wingers only. Proof? Consider this listing of past and present media types. Please circle the right wingers:

Dan Rather, Katie Couric, Tom Brokaw, Peter Jennings, Edward R. Murrow, Ted Koppel, Andy Rooney, Leslie Stahl, George Stephanopoulos, Mike Wallace, Barbara Walters, Ed Bradley, Campbell Brown, Jack Cafferty, Walter Cronkite, Jim Lehrer, Roger Grimsby, Soledad O’Brien, Keith Olbermann, Cokie Roberts, Diane Sawyer, Bob Schieffer, Paula Zahn, Sam Donaldson, Brian Williams, Judy Woodruff, David Shuster, Bernard Shaw, Jessica Savitch, Harry Reasoner, Sally Quinn, Gwen Ifill, Douglas Kiker, Charles Kuralt, Roger Mudd, Robert MacNeil, Charles Osgood, Douglas Edwards, John Chancellor, Charles Gibson, Christiane Amanpour, Anderson Cooper, Ann Curry, Marvin Kalb, Bryant Gimbel, Andrea Mitchell, Jeanne Moos, Bill Schneider, Daniel Schoor, Richard Threlkeld, Jake Tapper, Ann Compton, Lester Holt, Michael Beschloss

 

[PoliticalChic]

And who just bought the WSJ...oh yeah, he also owns FOX. Hhhhmmm

I notice that you were honest enough not to question my statement that the WSJ has an editorial policy that does not influence its news coverage.

This is not, of course, the same with the (liberal) NYTimes, and may account for the drop in readership of the Times, but not so with the Journal.

And of course FOX news is totally unbiased also, correct? I will agree the Times is biased but I wager you won't agree that FOX is right wing.

I see by your signature that you are one of those miltant moderates.

Remember, sit on the fence, you get splinters.

 

[Harry Dresden]

A blogger who doesn't cite his sources and can't even spell "grenade?" I'm not the one here.

I do agree with you on it is both parties at fault for the housing bubble. You were implying that Bush was talking about the "culture of ownership'. I am just stating he was trying to get congress on the problem of the bubble, which they did nothing. Now you mention subprime lending...you didn't mention it before so, I guess the game is changing for you.....but the lending IS directly connected to to the whole package of what went down. The only way unqualified people could get homes was through this manner. The government just turned a blind eye to it. Hey have a good day.

At least we agree that Obama inherited this mess. Enjoy your day, too, huh?

he did site his source asswipe...and thats how they spell the word on their site....your doing the same thing here you did to Dude....some people are wise to you now assmuncher....so watch yourself...

 

[Liability]

If the story recited in the OP has any truth to it (which is of course quite debatable), then I am even more proud of Vice President Cheney than I had been before. He is a truly great man.

 

[del]

If the story recited in the OP has any truth to it (which is of course quite debatable), then I am even more proud of Vice President Cheney than I had been before. He is a truly great man.

fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

 

[Liability]

If the story recited in the OP has any truth to it (which is of course quite debatable), then I am even more proud of Vice President Cheney than I had been before. He is a truly great man.

fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

Good insight, dil.

So, stop drinking and hit a treadmill, kid.

I'm afraid nothing is gonna prevent you from continuing to be an imbecile, however.

 

[del]

If the story recited in the OP has any truth to it (which is of course quite debatable), then I am even more proud of Vice President Cheney than I had been before. He is a truly great man.

fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

Good insight, dil.

So, stop drinking and hit a treadmill, kid.

I'm afraid nothing is gonna prevent you from continuing to be an imbecile, however.

ibid.

 

[Liability]

Cheney was such a great man as Vice President, the real shame of the Bush years is that it generated so much liberal Democrat opposition (i.e., LMSM propaganda attacks) that it prevented him from having any real shot at becoming President.

The national concensus, on balance, is so distorted because of that faux journalism, that the average citizen has no concept of what we have been deprived of.

More than just "a shame." Damn near a tragedy.

 

[Liability]

fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

Good insight, dil.

So, stop drinking and hit a treadmill, kid.

I'm afraid nothing is gonna prevent you from continuing to be an imbecile, however.

ibid.

And just as stupid of you both times.

 

[mattskramer]

I had my suspicions about Cheney ever since George W. Bush's first month in office.

Read about the Energy Task Force.

Energy Task Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Meister]

Your morphing the post you started. Go back, look what you posted, then look what I posted to refresh your short term memory loss. I stand on my words and facts presented, you just brought some empty words to your post.

I'm morphing the post because you're bringing up new arguments - neither of which I have a problem with. Why do you?

But going back to the first point for a moment. You began by saying that the economy went sour in 2001 because of 9/11. And up to a point I agree: 9/11 was a huge factor. But don't forget that even before the hijackings, energy prices had gone artificially high (again), the dot-com bubble had burst, economists all agreed a recession was going on, and companies were handing out pink slips on a mass scale, just like now. And I'll say again - because you never really responded to it - that the perceived housing boom did not actually correct the problems that resulted from this earlier recession.

Standing on your words and facts is useless if all you're doing is evading the opposing argument.

Your words mean nothing to me sonny...you haven't back up one thing you have said. Why don't you start with 2001 is every bit as bad as it is now with job losses?
I'm not denying a recession was going on in 2001, it started in the last year and a half with Clintons term. The dot.com bubble?....everyone who looked at the WSJ knew that was going to happen...no surprise there sonny. By the way...sonny, every time we have a recession they hand out pink slips...WTF? We have handed out a lot more now than in 2001-2002, I stated my fucking sources...where your just all talk.....you have no game for me? Can you be a little more specific in your housing boom rant for me. I don't have any idea what your talking about....housing boom was going to correct the problems of the earlier recession?????? I really don't think you have any idea what your talking about.
Better yet let me be another that you put on your "ignore list." I bet you get out of a lot of debates doing that.

 

[Soaring]

John Adams said at the time he was the first vice president under Washington that the vice president office was a waste of time and of a good mans's political sense. With the exception of LBJ, and maybe the one who followed Lincoln, which other VP's can you name who ran on their own terms for president and won? Being the VP of the United States seems to be a death sentence politically.

 

[Liability]

I had my suspicions about Cheney ever since George W. Bush's first month in office.

Read about the Energy Task Force.

Energy Task Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Points to be derived from the Energy Task Force and the Vice President's leadership of same:

(1) Forward looking! Excellent idea to see what could be done about the future energy needs of this Republic!

(2) Efforts to keep the advice of advisors free from the kind of hostile scrutiny of the uber-partisan was a terrific idea. Yes. Advisors SHOULD feel free to offer advice FREE from the concern that it will be publically disseminated later-on to cause injury to the advisors for purely political purposes. Otherwise, of course, the "advice" they feel "free" to give will almost SURELY be much more limited. This would be a tragic mistake.

The PROOF that keeping such matters secretive is a GOOD idea will be found by liberals once President Obama tries to utilize that tool of governance.

Oh wait, that's already starting to happen! Obama Adopts Cheney Policy and Opposes Release of White House Logs « JONATHAN TURLEY