Cheney an accomplice in 9/11 attacks

[dilloduck]

Iraq didn't "resolve" the terror problem. We were attacked by Saudis. Terror is a tactic....albeit used by fundies to advance their agenda.

I don't think Bush had anything to do with the fact that there have been no attacks since 9/11. There were seven years between the two trade center attacks. The nutters are patient... they plan and wait and hit you where there are holes.

You fight terror by rooting out cells and punishing the terrorists quickly and decisively. Then (as I've said elsewhere) you address the root causes of terror and do things like get the Saudis to educate their own freaking kids and shut down the madrassas. Then you do something about their 30% unemployment rate so they have better things to do with their lives than blow themselves up for Allah....

I hate being redundant. Sorry. I've said similar stuff on another thread.

Np--repetition is the mother of learning.

We were attacked by terrorists recuited specifically by Bin laden. Some claim that their nationality was intentional to drive a wedge between the Sauds and the US. The Suads had booted him out already.

Why would we have to secure our borders if we could root out all the terrorist cells ?
While I would like to think stopping terrorism would be as simple as thumping Afghanistan and shutting down madrassas, I'm glad we aren't fighting it with that narrow of a perspective.

 

[jillian]

I love it when you talk dirty.

oh my! :halo:

 

[jillian]

Np--repetition is the mother of learning.

We were attacked by terrorists recuited specifically by Bin laden. Some claim that their nationality was intentional to drive a wedge between the Sauds and the US. The Suads had booted him out already.

Why would we have to secure our borders if we could root out all the terrorist cells ?
While I would like to think stopping terrorism would be as simple as thumping Afghanistan and shutting down madrassas,

No question that Bin Laden recruited them. And no question that the Saudis booted him...but that was because he was a threat to the royal family. He hates them, too..... thinks they're too secular and too much in bed with the west.

But the fact is that poverty and ignorance breeds exactly the type of behavior we're seeing. Terrorism needs to be attacked from there as well. We're totally ignoring that aspect. People who are fed and working don't blow themselves to bits for 72 virgins.

I'm glad we aren't fighting it with that narrow of a perspective.

I understand that. I simply believe that thinking we're fighting "terrorists" in Iraq is wrong-minded and has only stirred the hornets' nest.

 

[MtnBiker]

But the fact is that poverty and ignorance breeds exactly the type of behavior we're seeing.

There are several other poor and undereducated nations. Why aren't they involved in terrorism?

 

[dilloduck]

No question that Bin Laden recruited them. And no question that the Saudis booted him...but that was because he was a threat to the royal family. He hates them, too..... thinks they're too secular and too much in bed with the west.

But the fact is that poverty and ignorance breeds exactly the type of behavior we're seeing. Terrorism needs to be attacked from there as well. We're totally ignoring that aspect. People who are fed and working don't blow themselves to bits for 72 virgins.



I understand that. I simply believe that thinking we're fighting "terrorists" in Iraq is wrong-minded and has only stirred the hornets' nest.

It's more than terrorism that we are fighting. Our leaders are just afraid to say that the real enemy is Islam. but you, of course, knew that already. Do you think cutting our relationship with the Saudis would be wise?
( I'm with Biker on your poverty excuse )

 

[Gunny]

Iraq didn't "resolve" the terror problem. We were attacked by Saudis. Terror is a tactic....albeit used by fundies to advance their agenda.

We were attacked by al Qaeda, and Islamic extremist organization. The birthplace of each extremist is irrelevant.

I don't think Bush had anything to do with the fact that there have been no attacks since 9/11. There were seven years between the two trade center attacks. The nutters are patient... they plan and wait and hit you where there are holes.

Of course you don't. The fact is, you can't prove otherwise. The fact is, since 9/11, there has been no terrorist attack in the US.

You fight terror by rooting out cells and punishing the terrorists quickly and decisively. Then (as I've said elsewhere) you address the root causes of terror and do things like get the Saudis to educate their own freaking kids and shut down the madrassas. Then you do something about their 30% unemployment rate so they have better things to do with their lives than blow themselves up for Allah....

I hate being redundant. Sorry. I've said similar stuff on another thread.

You started off good. Root them out and DESTROY them. I'm all for shutting down their brainwashing schools too. But their unemployment rate is THEIR problem, not mine.

 

[jillian]

There are several other poor and undereducated nations. Why aren't they involved in terrorism?

That's actually a really good question. My answer is that it happens when one puts ignorance and poverty together with religious fanatacism. Fundamentalism is horribly dangerous.

 

[jillian]

It's more than terrorism that we are fighting. Our leaders are just afraid to say that the real enemy is Islam. but you, of course, knew that already. Do you think cutting our relationship with the Saudis would be wise?
( I'm with Biker on your poverty excuse )

I'm not convinced the real enemy is Islam, in general. I've read the koran and know more than a few Arab people. They aren't angry and blowing up stuff. That type of holy fervor comes from the imams who mislead their people in order to benefit themselves politically.

As for the Saudis. I didn't say cut off relations. I said pressure them to educate their own people. We can't cut them off as long as we're oil dependent. And the irony is that this administration has been horrible environmentally and hasn't even raised the CAFE standards or set a timeline by which cars should use alternative fuels. As long as we're oil dependent, our money is being used to enrich countries that allow the madrassas to preach our destruction.

See my answer to Mtnbiker above.

 

[jillian]

You started off good. Root them out and DESTROY them. I'm all for shutting down their brainwashing schools too. But their unemployment rate is THEIR problem, not mine.

Well... it becomes our problem when the anger is being intentionally focused at us instead of at their own leaders.

 

[Dr Grump]

Well... it becomes our problem when the anger is being intentionally focused at us instead of at their own leaders.

Yep. The Saudi royal family needs to be held accountable to its people and for its people too........

 

[jillian]

Yep. The Saudi royal family needs to be held accountable to its people and for its people too........

True. And I'm not quite sure why that issue isn't being addressed.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I'm not convinced the real enemy is Islam, in general. I've read the koran and know more than a few Arab people. They aren't angry and blowing up stuff. That type of holy fervor comes from the imams who mislead their people in order to benefit themselves politically.

As for the Saudis. I didn't say cut off relations. I said pressure them to educate their own people. We can't cut them off as long as we're oil dependent. And the irony is that this administration has been horrible environmentally and hasn't even raised the CAFE standards or set a timeline by which cars should use alternative fuels. As long as we're oil dependent, our money is being used to enrich countries that allow the madrassas to preach our destruction.

See my answer to Mtnbiker above.

So you must know Islam explicitly condones violent physical jihad to convert or destroy non believers? So why isn't islam the problem?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I simply believe that thinking we're fighting "terrorists" in Iraq is wrong-minded and has only stirred the hornets' nest.

But Saddam was aiding and abetting terrorist activities around the globe. And ALquaeda cells are unquestionably operating there now. WHy is it wrong minded?

 

[dilloduck]

True. And I'm not quite sure why that issue isn't being addressed.

If there was a big pile of shit that had been ignored for 50 years, I think would you complain when someone started cleaning it up. I can hear it now--"use a bigger shovel--get a wheelbarrow--dont clean when its windy--look, you're missing some shit on the other side of the pile".

 

[theHawk]

But the fact is that poverty and ignorance breeds exactly the type of behavior we're seeing. Terrorism needs to be attacked from there as well. We're totally ignoring that aspect. People who are fed and working don't blow themselves to bits for 72 virgins.

you mean like the men who hijacked planes on 9/11? Most of them were college educated and had money and families.


The Qur'an breeds terrorism, not poverty - otherwise why aren't poor blacks in our inner cities blowing themselves up. Although I'd definately have to say that poverty and Islam are deeply connected, since the Qur'an doesn't hold well with capitalism/freedom, muslim populations are somewhat doomed to be dismal economies. If they weren't sitting on oceans of oil they would be at the very bottom of the economic totem pole of the world.

 

[jillian]

So you must know Islam explicitly condones violent physical jihad to convert or destroy non believers? So why isn't islam the problem?

Islam is not the problem or ALL muslims would be blowing themselves up. Therefore it's the particular "brand" of Islam that is the problem.

They might be a few hundred years behind, but how are there actions so very different from the actions of Christians during the times of the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition? Seems it's all about the mingling of zealotry and hate, as I said.

 

[archangel]

Islam is not the problem or ALL muslims would be blowing themselves up. Therefore it's the particular "brand" of Islam that is the problem.

They might be a few hundred years behind, but how are there actions so very different from the actions of Christians during the times of the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition? Seems it's all about the mingling of zealotry and hate, as I said.

This is not a new 'brand' of Islam it is a morphed version from the Ottoman Empire...which did not cease to exist in 1921...it just went underground and has returned with a vendetta!
We are in a new Crusade...like it or not!

 

[Dr Grump]

This is not a new 'brand' of Islam it is a morphed version from the Ottoman Empire...which did not cease to exist in 1921...it just went underground and has returned with a vendetta!
We are in a new Crusade...like it or not!

So why not go after the House of Saud...

 

[dilloduck]

So why not go after the House of Saud...

And let bin ladens' bunch take over ??? doesn't seem prudent.

 

[Dr Grump]

And let bin ladens' bunch take over ??? doesn't seem prudent.

I'm not talking about replacing the House of Saud, just pressuring them to lighten up on civil liberties so eventually they will be like the Queens/Kings of England, Denmark, Belgium, Sweden, Holland etc - just figureheads..