Changes in opinions on Mark McGwire / Tony LaRussa?

[Toronado3800]

With the new admission of steroid use by McGwire my opinion of him has changed very little. The confession could be one of practicality to help him get into the hall. It could be one to allow him to earn money as a hitting coach. Or it could be one of guilt. Who knows. For sure the few who defended him as "honest" and a role model are disappointed.

Now Tony LaRussa, my opinion of my home town manager has changed also. I'll let the "young" manager's dealing with Jose Canseco slide. But my goodness, Tony brought the roid boy into St. Louis with him. Practical, yes. Tony is now a cut throat win at any cost, keep my kids off his team type manager in my opinion. One of the best, but still a pretty cut throat fellow, wish he was in your city not mine.

 

[rightwinger]

It will be interesting to see the official reaction to McGwire. If they beat the shit out of him, everyone will keep quiet. If confessing opens doors it will open the floodgates

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

With the new admission of steroid use by McGwire my opinion of him has changed very little. The confession could be one of practicality to help him get into the hall. It could be one to allow him to earn money as a hitting coach. Or it could be one of guilt. Who knows. For sure the few who defended him as "honest" and a role model are disappointed.

Hero worship? The guy is an asshole. He lied his whole career and now he cries...actually cries and blames the system? ''If we had drug testing back then we wouldn't be here'' WTF?

Whatever happened to accountability. Sure has accepted responsibility...very late...but now hero worshippers like you want to grant hin pardon from being held to account?

The man's whole career is based on liesam deciet, deception, conciet...maybe he ought to run for dog catcher as a GOP leader?

Now Tony LaRussa, my opinion of my home town manager has changed also. I'll let the "young" manager's dealing with Jose Canseco slide. But my goodness, Tony brought the roid boy into St. Louis with him. Practical, yes. Tony is now a cut throat win at any cost, keep my kids off his team type manager in my opinion. One of the best, but still a pretty cut throat fellow, wish he was in your city not mine.

cuckoo!

 

[Xenophon]

Mark only confirmed what I thought all along.

I'm sure teh card hitters welcome a roided up 250 hitter's input into their swings.

 

[Immanuel]

You don't want them, as an A's fan, I'd welcome both of them back with open arms. Hell, it might even make baseball somewhat interesting again... might... I said.

Immie

 

[Big Fitz]

Nope. It's baseblah. It still all sucks.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Baseball Should Keep Talking About the Past

Come out, come out, wherever you are.

That effectively was the message from Bud Selig, the commissioner of Major League Baseball, on Monday in the wake of Mark McGwire’s orchestrated barnstorming confessional. McGwire admitted that he used steroids and human growth hormone throughout the 1990s.

What a show. What a well-manicured show.

Presumably, baseball wants to encourage any player who ever juiced to come forward, confess and be forgiven.

Don’t count on it. The primary reason McGwire came forward — after perhaps 10 years of juicing as an active player, by his admission — was to ensure that his return to baseball as a hitting coach with the St. Louis Cardinals and, who knows, a viable Baseball Hall of Fame candidate would be as seamless as possible.

-couldn't agree more...

what a crock-o-shit

 

[TheSuaveOne]

This admission should keep him out of the HoF. The fact that he pleaded the fifth in front of Congress should have been the sign that he had used them, so I am a bit surprised at the people who are claiming shock and surprise at his recent admission. At least he didn't perjure himself by denying steroid use.

-TSO

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

This admission should keep him out of the HoF. The fact that he pleaded the fifth in front of Congress should have been the sign that he had used them, so I am a bit surprised at the people who are claiming shock and surprise at his recent admission. At least he didn't perjure himself by denying steroid use.

-TSO

another big fat white stupid fuck claiming Victim Status.

When did white America become so pussified?

 

[Immanuel]

This admission should keep him out of the HoF. The fact that he pleaded the fifth in front of Congress should have been the sign that he had used them, so I am a bit surprised at the people who are claiming shock and surprise at his recent admission. At least he didn't perjure himself by denying steroid use.

-TSO

Invoking the fifth is not supposed to be seen as an admission of guilt. It is too bad that so many Americans believe that anyone who invokes the fifth amendment is absolutely guilty. Now that is not so say that I did not think that he probably had used them, but still, the fifth amendment is supposed to protect us from an over zealous government.

As for keeping him out of the Hall of Fame, that is bullshit. Just as it is bullshit that they have kept Pete Rose out of the Hall of Fame.

Immie

 

[TheSuaveOne]

It may not be an admission of guilt in a legal courtroom, but in the court of public opinion...it's a clear case of "I don't want to admit I did what you are accusing me of". Like I said, the Congress has nothing on him, but the Hall of Fame is not run by the Congress or government. It's members are selected by individuals that can base admission on just about anything.

His steroid use allowed him to stay in baseball long enough to get his records, to me, that is a sure sign he has no place in the HoF.

Rose on the other hand, I do agree with you. What he did isn't even comparable, "to me", as to what Big Mac did. Should he have been kept out for some time? Sure, he bet on games...big no-no, but at the same time, he has paid the price for those actions and should be voted in, or at least let the voters get a say.

-TSO

 

[Big Fitz]

If I cared deeply enough, I'd suggest this:

Append the record book. Segregate out those who break the records while juiced up, and keep those who don't use enhancers as the "official" record.

So Rodger Maris would still have the REAL record, but Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds and whomever else would have that lovely little asterix next to their record, and list of enhancers.

And of course, you then remove all those who played on enhancements from the HoF.

Then again, that's my opinion for all pro sports with problems about steroids and the like.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

This admission should keep him out of the HoF. The fact that he pleaded the fifth in front of Congress should have been the sign that he had used them, so I am a bit surprised at the people who are claiming shock and surprise at his recent admission. At least he didn't perjure himself by denying steroid use.

-TSO

Invoking the fifth is not supposed to be seen as an admission of guilt. It is too bad that so many Americans believe that anyone who invokes the fifth amendment is absolutely guilty. Now that is not so say that I did not think that he probably had used them, but still, the fifth amendment is supposed to protect us from an over zealous government.

As for keeping him out of the Hall of Fame, that is bullshit. Just as it is bullshit that they have kept Pete Rose out of the Hall of Fame.

Immie

Bullshit is what Pro sports are all about, eh?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Didn't everyone know he was doing roids?

I'm not a baseball fan and I knew it.

duh

 

[Immanuel]

It may not be an admission of guilt in a legal courtroom, but in the court of public opinion...it's a clear case of "I don't want to admit I did what you are accusing me of". Like I said, the Congress has nothing on him, but the Hall of Fame is not run by the Congress or government. It's members are selected by individuals that can base admission on just about anything.

His steroid use allowed him to stay in baseball long enough to get his records, to me, that is a sure sign he has no place in the HoF.

Rose on the other hand, I do agree with you. What he did isn't even comparable, "to me", as to what Big Mac did. Should he have been kept out for some time? Sure, he bet on games...big no-no, but at the same time, he has paid the price for those actions and should be voted in, or at least let the voters get a say.

-TSO

You make a good point about the steroids allowing him to stay in baseball long enough to get his records.

However, I have always felt (at least since Rose was kept out of the HoF) that when you haphazardously begin erasing records and names from the books because you don't happen to like a guy, then you really have no stats worth keeping anyway.

Seeing as how he was obviously using performance enhancing drugs at the time, he should have been punished then not ten years later. IMHO

Immie

 

[TheSuaveOne]

The problem I have with the asterick is that it doesn't show how many of their opponant's records were changed based on the use of steroids. How many pitchers W-L record would have been different, how many other players may have been able to play if the steroid user was on the bench because of injuries that didn't heal as fast as they would have with the aid of PED? We'll really will never know, that's the part that really pisses me off about the players that cheated. Not only did they cheat the system, but they cheated the rest of the players in the league who didn't juice.

-TSO

 

[Toronado3800]

Invoking the fifth is not supposed to be seen as an admission of guilt. It is too bad that so many Americans believe that anyone who invokes the fifth amendment is absolutely guilty. Now that is not so say that I did not think that he probably had used them, but still, the fifth amendment is supposed to protect us from an over zealous government.

As for keeping him out of the Hall of Fame, that is bullshit. Just as it is bullshit that they have kept Pete Rose out of the Hall of Fame.

Immie

It's a public opinion issue not the court system's judgment that bothers McGwire, and I suppose the majority who believed he was roided up were proven correct.

If not for the trickle down effect I wouldn't even care if Mark shortened his life expectancy by abusing drugs.

 

[Xenophon]

As it turns out, his 'admission' is half assed.

He told Bob Costas that roids DID NOT in crease his HR totals, it was his great batting eye and mad skillz that made the HRs, roids only 'kept him healthy'.

In short, he's still in denile and totally full of shit.