Change? Can we afford it?

[Care4all]

nm

hahahahahahahahahahaha!

lollollol

you jumped the gun and got drilling on your mind huh?

well, drilling on our own soil is being done already....

with several million acres leased but untouched....by the leasees....keeping the oil on this soil OFF of the market...and preventing others that may really want to drill on it, from doing such....

but even if the entire continental shelf were available to drill on and the oil companies actually decided to drill for it, the oil goes on the global market about 10 years from now and will make a 2 cent's a gallon reduction in the price of it, is the economists and speculator;s estimates....

we only have 3% of the world's oil supply to drill, tapped and untapped....it won't make much of a difference and it certainly will not make a difference now or even 5 years from now.....

And foreigners can get the leases to drill our oil, the way it is set up....if anwr is opened... it will not even be a usa company that gets the lease but a british company, BP, who is the one drilling on the northern slope right now, in Alaska....and BP is an atrocious company with no regard to usa law or the American people, which they have proven with their deplorable record....

If there truely were a reasonably priced method to get the shale oil, without spoiling our drinking waters underground....this might help since there is a ton of it...but this is yet to be seen...

Alternatives, is where we should spend our money and focus, along with the continuation of drilling oil on our own land.

 

[dilloduck]

hahahahahahahahahahaha!

lollollol

you jumped the gun and got drilling on your mind huh?

well, drilling on our own soil is being done already....

with several million acres leased but untouched....by the leasees....keeping the oil on this soil OFF of the market...and preventing others that may really want to drill on it, from doing such....

but even if the entire continental shelf were available to drill on and the oil companies actually decided to drill for it, the oil goes on the global market about 10 years from now and will make a 2 cent's a gallon reduction in the price of it, is the economists and speculator;s estimates....

we only have 3% of the world's oil supply to drill, tapped and untapped....it won't make much of a difference and it certainly will not make a difference now or even 5 years from now.....

And foreigners can get the leases to drill our oil, the way it is set up....if anwr is opened... it will not even be a usa company that gets the lease but a british company, BP, who is the one drilling on the northern slope right now, in Alaska....and BP is an atrocious company with no regard to usa law or the American people, which they have proven with their deplorable record....

If there truely were a reasonably priced method to get the shale oil, without spoiling our drinking waters underground....this might help since there is a ton of it...but this is yet to be seen...

Alternatives, is where we should spend our money and focus, along with the continuation of drilling oil on our own land.

Ok---let's just keep giving our money to the Saudis. ( where are we getting this money to develop alternatives again? )

 

[Caligirl]

Ok---let's just keep giving our money to the Saudis. ( where are we getting this money to develop alternatives again? )

Well gee we could try some other energy source, I dunno, like solar wind hydrogen geothermal or even nucular.

The money to develop alternatives is http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/factsheet_energy_speech_080308.pdf

 

[dilloduck]

Well gee we could try some other energy source, I dunno, like solar wind hydrogen geothermal or even nucular.

The money to develop alternatives is http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/factsheet_energy_speech_080308.pdf

taxes--raise taxes.

 

[Caligirl]

Obama states that taxes drop under his plan for the grate majority of americans

Not having a job is kinda like really bad taxes.

Obama specifically plans to create jobs.

 

[dilloduck]

Obama states that taxes drop under his plan for the grate majority of americans

Not having a job is kinda like really bad taxes.

Obama specifically plans to create jobs.

Create jobs HOW ?

 

[Caligirl]

By changing our economy to a green energy one - Manufacturing, in other words, (solar etc) - jobs that cannot be outsourced.

Read the previous link. There's more to it than that but that is the part that I personally think is necessary for a healthy future.

 

[dilloduck]

By changing our economy to a green energy one - Manufacturing, in other words, (solar etc) - jobs that cannot be outsourced.

Read the previous link. There's more to it than that but that is the part that I personally think is necessary for a healthy future.

Subsidizing green industry ?

 

[dilloduck]

Subsidizing green industry ?

and drilling

• Promote the Responsible Domestic Production of Oil and Natural Gas. An Obama
administration will set up a process for early identification of any infrastructure
obstacles/shortages or possible federal permitting process delays to drilling in:
o Bakken Shale in Montana and North Dakota which could have as much as 4 billion
recoverable barrels of oil according to the U.S. Geological Survey.
o Unconventional natural gas supplies in the Barnett Shale formation in Texas and the
Fayetteville Shale in Arkansas.
o National Petroleum Reserve‐Alaska (NPR‐A) which comprises 23.5 million acres of federal
land set aside by President

 

[elvis]

Obama states that taxes drop under his plan for the grate majority of americans

Not having a job is kinda like really bad taxes.

Obama specifically plans to create jobs.

If he were going to raise taxes on everyone, which he probably will, he wouldnt say so. The last candidate to admit to that lost 49 states. How will Obama create jobs when he supports these "free-trade" agreements that send jobs overseas and to Mexico? Hmmmm.
If he really were going to cut taxes on everyone whose income is below
250k, and everyone over 250k would have theirs increased to only 39 percent, how in the world would he plan on balancing the budget? Has anyone seen a specific plan?

 

[jreeves]

if you look at it closely, it took several years to bring us back to the tax revenues we were collecting in 2000 reeves....UNTIL 2005 before we got to 2000's level of revenue intake.....

which IS NOT A very strong case for you to make...saying the tax revenues increased from the tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 reeves...4/5 years of a revenue shortfall.....thus the huge, huge amounts added to our national debt and we still have not made up that 4 years of shortfall in revenues with the increase in revenues they are finally getting now.

Also, JUST naturally, tax revenues increase every year with our economy growing, so who knows if the tax cuts hadn't been taken how much money they would have been collecting by 2005 on its own natural course.....?

Borrowing all of this money from foreigners is a TAX INCREASE on all of us with the devaluation of the dollar....and higher oil price increases for us Americans due to it....

Just ponder on that for a little bit....

Care

Care do a little research....

Tax revenues in 2006 were 18.4 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), which is actually above the 20-year, 40-year, and 60-year historical aver*ages.[1] The inflation-adjusted 20 percent tax revenue increase between 2004 and 2006 represents the largest two-year revenue surge since 1965–1967.[2]
Ten Myths About the Bush Tax Cuts
What's really impressive about this surge in tax revenue is this.....

The Early 2000s recession was felt in mostly Western countries, affecting the European Union mostly during 2000 and 2001 and the United States mostly in 2002 and 2003. Early 2000s recession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Chris]

Ok---let's just keep giving our money to the Saudis. ( where are we getting this money to develop alternatives again? )

From the $200 billion dollars a year we save by getting out of Iraq!

 

[Caligirl]

If he were going to raise taxes on everyone, which he probably will, he wouldnt say so. The last candidate to admit to that lost 49 states. How will Obama create jobs when he supports these "free-trade" agreements that send jobs overseas and to Mexico? Hmmmm.
If he really were going to cut taxes on everyone whose income is below
250k, and everyone over 250k would have theirs increased to only 39 percent, how in the world would he plan on balancing the budget? Has anyone seen a specific plan?

I believe the energy plan is what a linked a few posts up. It's titled something like Obama's energy plan and talks about job creation. I put another link at the end of this post.

Things have spiralled downwards under Bush. We are losing value on our homes, losing our homes, losing our jobs, this is worse than taxation. But for some people it doesn't matter, as long as Bush keeps those tax cuts for the wealthy they think they're better off financially even as the banks go under, or in the case of government bailouts taxes increase (under republican governance) as the taxpayer picks up the tab for the bailout.

Clinton created over 23 million jobs. Bush, the numbers are all over the place but all much lower than that, with some sites claiming a net loss of jobs under Bush. Our taxes were about the same under clinton. I say give the democrats another stint, the republicans get an F in my book.

The page describing job creation is here:

Barack Obama and Joe Biden: The Change We Need | Economy

halfway down.

 

[Chris]

Care do a little research....

Tax revenues in 2006 were 18.4 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), which is actually above the 20-year, 40-year, and 60-year historical aver*ages.[1] The inflation-adjusted 20 percent tax revenue increase between 2004 and 2006 represents the largest two-year revenue surge since 1965–1967.[2]
Ten Myths About the Bush Tax Cuts
What's really impressive about this surge in tax revenue is this.....

The Early 2000s recession was felt in mostly Western countries, affecting the European Union mostly during 2000 and 2001 and the United States mostly in 2002 and 2003. Early 2000s recession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The $400 billion dollar deficit this year is expected to increase to $500 billion dollars next year. This is fiscal irresponsiblity on a scale never before seen in human
history. Or at least not since Ronald Reagan....

ReaganBushDebt.org

 

[jreeves]

I believe the energy plan is what a linked a few posts up. It's titled something like Obama's energy plan and talks about job creation. I put another link at the end of this post.

Things have spiralled downwards under Bush. We are losing value on our homes, losing our homes, losing our jobs, this is worse than taxation. But for some people it doesn't matter, as long as Bush keeps those tax cuts for the wealthy they think they're better off financially even as the banks go under, or in the case of government bailouts taxes increase (under republican governance) as the taxpayer picks up the tab for the bailout.

Clinton created over 23 million jobs. Bush, the numbers are all over the place but all much lower than that, with some sites claiming a net loss of jobs under Bush. Our taxes were about the same under clinton. I say give the democrats another stint, the republicans get an F in my book.

The page describing job creation is here:

Barack Obama and Joe Biden: The Change We Need | Economy

halfway down.

The 'Bush tax cuts' actually increased the tax burden on the wealthy. That is a lie that has been repeated over and over.

 

[Care4all]

The 'Bush tax cuts' actually increased the tax burden on the wealthy. That is a lie that has been repeated over and over.


View attachment 5880

Did the wealthiest also earn more income during the period where the tax revenues increased on your chart and the other 80% were taking in less of the pie?

And the devaluation of the dollar and higher oil/food prices affect those with less than the wealthiest WHICH IS A HIDDEN TAX INCREASE on them that was caused by the administration/congress borrowing and borrowing and borrowing the money they spent from Foreigners.....Reeves.

Please, you're a pretty smart guy and you should not let these fordged pie charts or graphs limit your ability to see the whole picture on tax policies....and how they affect the individual.

care

 

[editec]

Let me see edit, I won't dignify most fo your comments on the Military except to say that, the dedicated men and women of the Military do a tough job that not many would rush to do. They work hard each and every day guarding the very same freedoms the world over that you and I are exercising at this very moment. Many have given their lives doing just that over the years. I would venture to say, that if you asked most Military people you would not get the "Empire Building" answer. You would get a deep sense of duty, honor, and serving a cause greater than themselves.

You won't dignify my comments?

Apparently that means you don't understand them. I didn't take the military to task, Navy.

As for your other comments, I will say this, the United States was built on the notion that you can be ANYTHING you want to be as long as you WORK hard enough to get it.

It's as true today as it was over 200 years ago when this country was founded. The trouble today is, that a few would rather not continue this American tradition and would rather their government be the answer to every single problem in life, health, a home, a job. Well it's time some of those realized that government is not there to provide all those things to everyone. If people that advocate that , want it so badly, there are several other nations on the Earth that do operate that way. China, North Korea, and Cuba comes to mind.

Was it? that's a nice myth. I thought it was build on the fact that it found itself with over 3,000,000 square miles of basically untouched unexploited land, and wave after wave of immigrant to work those resources, but hey, what do I know?


Does this patriotic blather of yours have anything to do with what I've actually written?

No.

On the socialized medicine comment in the Military, let me say this, as I was pointing out to someone else. When you look for a job, no matter what that may be you look for one based on what your priorities are. The US Military offers great medical benefits to it's servicemen/women and always has. However, each person in the Military that is doing a damn fine job I might add, works hard for that benefit as someone in the civilian world works hard for theirs should they sign up for it when an employer offers it.

Yeah, all true.

Still, the military provides the best SOCIALIZED medicine in the world.

I know, because I was once part of it.

Would that every American had access to such a fine system of socialized medicine.

How you construed my post into something you thought was anti-military I do not know.

 

[rayboyusmc]

And Greenspan says we can't afford Mumbles's tax plan either.

 

[rayboyusmc]

It isn't the Military people doing the empire buidling. It is the little weasel NeoCon Wolfys, and Feiths, and Cheney's that are using our men and women.

LBJ, Nixon, Kishitinger did the same thing to my generation in Vietnam.

There are people to whom the military and their life and death are nothing but a means to an end that they want as part of their political agenda. They are a group who see themselves as the "uber folks" who were born to rule the rest of US. Fuck them to hell.

 

[jreeves]

The $400 billion dollar deficit this year is expected to increase to $500 billion dollars next year. This is fiscal irresponsiblity on a scale never before seen in human
history. Or at least not since Ronald Reagan....

ReaganBushDebt.org

Who controlled the purse strings? The Democratic Congress....