Centrists

[Caligirl]

I'm not going to defend Obama if he fucks us over.

And I can't believe middle class Americans did that for the GOP. Why? Stubborness? Pride? Embarrassment? Who knows.

uhhhh, maybe because the country is not as 'center left' as you are claiming? Maybe the country actually *can* think and *does* tend towards conservative values? Nah, that couldn't be it.

But keep up the divisive rhetoric 'they screwed the dems the dems should screw them back' because that worked so well for the GOP after all.

No honeymoon for Obama.

So what?

 

[sealybobo]

uhhhh, maybe because the country is not as 'center left' as you are claiming? Maybe the country actually *can* think and *does* tend towards conservative values? Nah, that couldn't be it.

But keep up the divisive rhetoric 'they screwed the dems the dems should screw them back' because that worked so well for the GOP after all.



So what?

No, the country leans left. We always knew it did but the last 2 elections proved it. We always knew it was the moral minority, not majority. They just yelled really loud and made us all believe they had a much bigger following.

States that voted for McCain definately lean right. But the states that voted for Obama lean left, and that includes the new ones like Ohio and Colorado. And that's a good thing, no?

So what? He's going to need it. He's going to need some time when the GOP don't obstuct progress. Once he's gotten us out of the mess the GOP got us in, then they can go back to playing politics. Treat now like right after 9-11 when no one questioned anything Bush did for at least a year after.

You think I'm being divisive. I'm only shutting out the people who are going to stall/block any/all progress. Are you rich? Then quit defending the people who are trying to hurt the middle class. And pick a side. Either you get it or you don't.

Who did you vote for in 2000, 04 and 08? I need to know that.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

No, the country leans left. We always knew it did but the last 2 elections proved it. We always knew it was the moral minority, not majority. They just yelled really loud and made us all believe they had a much bigger following.

ROFLMNAO... Oh GOD... Now that's precious.

So you've concluded that the nations leans left based upon the 06 congressional seating of majority of Democrats who won running conservative PRO-AMERICAN campaigns... You people just aren't capable of seeing a distinction between party and ideology are ya? In every campaign where the Dems unseated a Rep, they did so running a CONSERVATIVE Democrat... Not a single Dem, that I recall, won running an anti-American leftist (Pardon the redundancy) campaign. Franken, is the most notable leftist crank and he lost handily... of course he did sue and sat over a transparently hijacked recount.

But you keep thinkin' that... That way perhaps you will have SOME influence on getting Hussein to run to shove overt queers in the US military, close GITMO and bring illegal combatants to civilian criminal courts where the otherwise essential high threshold of evidence to adjudicate guilt will set them free to commit more attacks on the US...

YOU GO GIRL!

States that voted for McCain definately lean right. But the states that voted for Obama lean left, and that includes the new ones like Ohio and Colorado. And that's a good thing, no?

Hussein, like all leftists won in the urban centers... aside from population centers where the feeble-minded are concentrated, there were few 'States' that carried for Hussein; Colorado went against Hussein in the majority of counties, as did Ohio; finding support primarily around Denver and of course Boulder, the home of the freakshow of the world.

Once he's gotten us out of the mess the GOP got us in, then they can go back to playing politics.

Now BE SPECIFIC... WHAT 'MESS' are you speaking of that you claim the "GOP" got us into and WHAT SPECIFIC HUSSEIN POLICY, AS EXPRESSED BY HUSSEIN do you hopes frees us...

Treat now like right after 9-11 when no one questioned anything Bush did for at least a year after.

Treat now, like right after 9-11 and the democrats elected a Marxist Muslim... and you'll get an idea of how it's gonna go for President Hussein.

You think I'm being divisive.

Oh you're just being you sis... Don't sweat the petty shit...

I'm only shutting out the people who are going to stall/block any/all progress.

Please DEFINE WHAT YOU FEEL PROGRESS WILL LOOK LIKE; tell us what you think President Hussein (Of the US) will do when he advances the American culture (assuming you mean 'advancing the culture' when you use the word 'progress').

Are you rich? Then quit defending the people who are trying to hurt the middle class.

Please explain how you 'feel' the 'Rich hurt the middle-class.' Define "Rich"...

And pick a side. Either you get it or you don't.

Hear HEAR!

Who did you vote for in 2000, 04 and 08? I need to know that.

Actually the only purpose you could potentially have for 'needing to know that' is to advance yet another fallacious ad populum rhetorical travesty.

There were no viable candidates running in any of those Federal Campaigns... Gore was a maleable idiot, chosen by the Clinton's for VP because of his limited intellectual means and his secular zealotry... Kerry is a known pro-communist traitor, having met with the enemy in Paris, while his fellow Sailors were fighting the communist on the field of battle, returning to the US to implement plans advanced by the communists subverting national security and fomenting discontent on College campuses and within the nations addle-minded youth AGAINST THEIR NATION... and Hussein's election can be explained in one word: McCAIN... Hell even I thought about voting for Hussein... and if it hadn't been for Palin, I very well might have...

But yeah... you keep tellin' yourself this election was a mandate... watching you come apart as this unfolds will be a laugh-riot...

 

[KittenKoder]

It would be great is McCain ran again next election .. but without that freak. I love reps who actually believe in UFO's, at least they are more open to possibility than others.

 

[Jon]

And fyi, it is going to take faith to fix this economy. If not, no one will invest or buy anything if there is no faith. Thats why it is a good thing that Obama has over a 70% approval rating right now. You 30% should be ashamed of yourselves. You are the pussies. Are you suggesting we will never get out of this mess? Because the GOP certainly won't get us out. So if Obama can't, no one can. If Obama won't, no one will. Do you get that?

Therein lies two of your problems.

1. Partisan politics. "Republicans can't fix it, only Obama can." Blind faith in a man who has not proven himself capable of making any change in the political world. I thought you were against blind faith?

2. You trust the government to fix this problem when it's not the government's problem to fix. It's yours and it's mine. It's the American people who need to be more responsible and get off their lazy asses and get to work. It's the American people who have jobs and have income but spend on credit and expect to somehow beat the credit card companies. It's the American people who know that if they fall short, the government will be there to pull them out. Stop expecting the government to fix everything. Do something yourself, you lazy fuck.

 

[Jon]

States that voted for McCain definately lean right.

Funny, Arkansas has a Democratic governor, 2 Democratic Senators, 3 Democratic Representatives (1 Republican), and we voted McCain.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

It would be great is McCain ran again next election .. but without that freak. I love reps who actually believe in UFO's, at least they are more open to possibility than others.

Well that serves reason... Which is a beautful illustration of why it's absurd to lend credence to leftists trying to tell Conservatives what they need to do to win elections. We just witnessed yet another example of what happens when Conservatives listen to leftists...

Of course Sarah Palin will be the GOP nominee in 2012... and given the evidence of "Don't ask, Don't Tell" being pre-loaded for initial Hussein launch and the Conyers 'Terrorist Defense Trials'... there's a VERY real probability that she's well on her way to being the first Female President of the US.

 

[Caligirl]

No, the country leans left. We always knew it did but the last 2 elections proved it. We always knew it was the moral minority, not majority. They just yelled really loud and made us all believe they had a much bigger following.

States that voted for McCain definately lean right. But the states that voted for Obama lean left, and that includes the new ones like Ohio and Colorado. And that's a good thing, no?

So what? He's going to need it. He's going to need some time when the GOP don't obstuct progress. Once he's gotten us out of the mess the GOP got us in, then they can go back to playing politics. Treat now like right after 9-11 when no one questioned anything Bush did for at least a year after.

You think I'm being divisive. I'm only shutting out the people who are going to stall/block any/all progress. Are you rich? Then quit defending the people who are trying to hurt the middle class. And pick a side. Either you get it or you don't.

Who did you vote for in 2000, 04 and 08? I need to know that.

lol you don't need to know who I voted for unless you see this as a battle, and THAT is what some in the GOP are trying to accomplish. You have the opportunity to take the moral high ground and you're behaving most oddly given that the dems did fairly well. They did well while *not* using GOP tactics, so whi you are advocating that they drop the winning strategy and adopt the losing strategy remains a mystery.

The country leans right. Most people are religious. Most are against abortion. Most believe in capitalism over socialism, and most favor lower taxes. Etc.

 

[Caligirl]

Of course Sarah Palin will be the GOP nominee in 2012... and given the evidence of "Don't ask, Don't Tell" being pre-loaded for initial Hussein launch and the Conyers 'Terrorist Defense Trials'... there's a VERY real probability that she's well on her way to being the first Female President of the US.

That would be interesting. I don't see it happening, I think most of her appeal was that she was so much the anti-mccain, in other words the people who didn't want mccain were thrilled that she came along..... gave him a bounce of like 10 points ..... but if the GOP had put up a stronger candidate to begin with (though I liked mccain best of the field) palin would not have appeared as good as she did. In other words, without the contrast to Mccain or someone similar, she has very little to promote herself above the other candidates who are as qualified.

Huckabee is stronger, and Jindal might be stronger yet.

 

[rayboyusmc]

Publius, you ignorant slut. Not only are you a ranting politicat bigot but you are in the minority.

Suprise, suprise, turdbird, the lefty Americans outnumber the righty Americans.

'An estimated 201.5 million U.S. citizens age 18 or over will be
eligible to vote Nov. 2, although many are not now registered. Of
these, about 55 million are registered Republicans. About 72 million
registered Democrats.
About 42 million are registered as independents, under some other
minor party or with a "No Party" designation.'

So unless you can prove that those independents are more conservative than liberal, you are a stinking hind tit sucking minority.

But, as a liberal, I still won't call you a fucking commie pinko dikweed socialist marxist, paranoid bed wetter like you do to the left.

 

[Annie]

Publius, you ignorant slut. Not only are you a ranting politicat bigot but you are in the minority.

Suprise, suprise, turdbird, the lefty Americans outnumber the righty Americans.



So unless you can prove that those independents are more conservative than liberal, you are a stinking hind tit sucking minority.

But, as a liberal, I still won't call you a fucking commie pinko dikweed socialist marxist, paranoid bed wetter like you do to the left.

Good job, you've proven to whomever that you are 'above the fray.'

 

[rayboyusmc]

It's Ray not Fray. She was the one in the King Kong movie.

I just needed to address the multiple statements that Publius/Pogo has made that there are not leftist Americans.

Sorry if I offended you.

 

[Annie]

It's Ray not Fray. She was the one in the King Kong movie.

I just needed to address the multiple statements that Publius/Pogo has made that there are not leftist Americans.

Sorry if I offended you.

Equate me with those again, I'll neg you.

 

[rayboyusmc]

Equate you with whom? I really don't follow that remark.

I stated that my earlier post was for all the crap Publius has made about every American on the left.

 

[garyd]

And if Obama screws the pooch as seems likely half those registered Democrats will cheerfully vote republican if they vote at all. If the economy hadn't tanked and\or Mccain had distanced himself from rather than embracing the bailout moinstrosity we could well be looking at President John McCain.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Marriage is for anyone who fucking wants it Publius.

Agreed... I've made no state which could lead any intelligent person to conclude otherwise...

You don't make the rules for other people's lifes. I know you want to, but you don't.

Actually I do... I live in this culture, just as you live in this culture and I have as much a right to determine what constitutes acceptable thresholds of behavior, every bit as much as you... and I am here arguing for what I believe are acceptable thresholds of behavior in a healthy culture... MY CULTURE.

And I believe that any TWO PEOPLE that want to join together in a single legal union; forming one legal entity; wherein they intend to procreate and raise a family; to train those children to be productive members of society that they have every right to do so AS LONG AS THEY REPRESENT BOTH BIOLOGICAL GENDERS...

one male and one female.

And then you piss and moan at the liberals interfering with the government.

False... I present the incontestable facts wherein the ideological left is proven TIME AND TIME AGAIN to undermine the viability of the culture... THROUGH THE USE OF GOVERNMENT POWER TO LIFT PROTECTIONS OF INALIENABLE INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS. Such as you're doing here...

You're seeking to use the power of the US judiciary and their power to police, to undermine the cultural threshold represented in Marriage to normalize DEVIANCY... I contest this because of the intellectual certainty that where deviancy is encouraged DEVIANCY WILL THRIVE and WHERE DEVIANCY THRIVES, HEALTHY CULTURES DIE! I don't want my culture to die, Pogue.

I want Obama to cut out the tax cuts for the rich also. He can do this action and still be a centrist in other areas.

Fascinating... so you admit that confiscating the product of an individual labor is NOT 'centrist,' thus it would have to be EXTREME... We'll be filing this away...

With that said, I would only say that as is the case with your desire to undermine the culture with your desire to normalize deviant behavior and my contest of that idiocy, I also contest your desire to undermine the right of the individual to the full and unfettered use of the product of his labor without fear of reprisal by the awesome power of government; a right which is endowed to him by his creator and one representing the principles on which America was FOUNDED; I contest this desire of yours on the grounds that it undermines the ECONOMY of my culture; stripping away initiative and in so doing undermining THE INALIENABLE RIGHT TO PURSUE THE FULFILLMENT OF ONE'S LIFE.

That's the point I am making. A centrist or moderate (at least for me) does not necessarily hold such a middle of the road position on every issue.

Yeah we get that; you recognize that confiscating the product of one's labor is extreme and you want to set that extremism aside and pretend that it cannot be used to assess those holding as extremists... it's a classic delusion common to the intellectual misfits of whom leftism is comprised...

Good stuff... REALLY!

There are things that are wrong or right in my opinion. I am not a centrist on these issues. There are other issues where the either right or wrong is bullshit and the answer is somewhere in the middle.

A lovely rationalization... truly. It's completely detached from any sense of reality, thus it serves perfectly to prop up the irrational fantasy which you described above. LOL... CLASSIC!

However let's take gun control. I am a centrist. I believe we should be allowed to own guns. However, I have no problem with registration and a waiting period. I also don't have a problem with the average citizen not being able to buy an AK47 or a frigging 50 caliber machine gun. I do have a problem with the government saying I can't own a weapon, and I do have a problem with the NRA and their position. They would have you just about issue every baby a gun at birth.

LOL... BEAUTIFUL... So you 'feel' that a person should be able to own a gun, just not one that you 'feel' uncomfortable with someone else owning... in terms of it's bore, it's loading mechanism or it's potential rate of fire... BUT YOU DON'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT HOLDING YOUR POSITION... wherein they tell people they can't own guns or certain types of guns... and ya don't want individuals who disagree with you to organize and pursue government policy which is aligned with their 'feelings'...

Nothing new there Pogue...


Great post... It truly bespeaks the essence of the ideological left... and that you'd be so bold as to lift your skirt and show us what you're really all about is a tribute to liberal naiveté...

 

[HelloDollyLlama]

Wow. Dozens of posts all dedicated to a silly fallacy -- that there are only two philosophies that work, the far left and the far right.

The world has seen the grand experiments in far-left government -- the Russians and Chinese met with disaster and millions died -- and far-right government -- Hitler, millons dead, and American rightwingers have led us to national bankruptcy three times in 130 years.

So neither extreme works. History has proved it.

Now it's our turn. The centrists.

Pragmatism has an undeserved bad reputation. To some it betokens betrayal of principle. During the Bush era the notion fell even further into disrepute: blind faith was prized over common sense, with predictable results.

But remember than all American presidential campaigns are won and lost on the same battlefield: the political center. Win the moderates and centrists and go straight to the White House. Obama is staking out the center for himself. If the GOP insists on adhering to its far-right standard, they are simply surrendering that battlefield and ensuring more losses.

Obama is a centrist who voted with Bush half the time and supports tax cuts, FISA, hunting down bin Laden, free-market economics, merit pay to separate good teachers from bad ones, nuclear power, more faith-based programs, an effort to cut government waste, more troops for Afghanistan, strong support for Israel, possible military action against Iran, the right to bear arms, the death penalty, outreach to evangelicals, and the Patriot Act, which he voted for twice. He is rock solid on family values.

He is determined to govern from the center, and Pelosi, Reid, Emanuel and Hoyer have all publicly backed him on that point. Howard Dean rejected the notion that the election was a mandate for a new New Deal. They drove the point home by seeing to it that Joe Lieberman kept his committee chair.

In setting up his administration he relied heavily on Brent Scowcroft, a Republican pragmatist, and Robert Rubin, a centrist money man whom traditional liberals view with suspicion. Likewise his cabinet picks: praised by the right, grumbles from the left.

Emanuel is a millionaire investment banker who pushed a lot of Clinton’s conservative efforts like NAFTA and the crime and welfare bills, and then recruited moderate and conservative candidates for the 2006 elections, angering a lot of liberals. Even Republican Congressman Jim McCrery admitted that Emanuel is a centrist. Geithner, a former Republican, worked for Kissinger and is popular with Wall Street leaders; he is held in suspicion by labor. A former Treasury colleague said “he’s no liberal”. Hillary voted for Bush’s Iraq war. Gates is a Republican.


Revenge Of The Grownups. CNN should get a logo and some theme music.

 

[amrchaos]

Well, since everyone made their arguements--let me give some warnings.


Pubulius is correct on one assessment about the center--we will normally follow the easier path--either in terms of common sense or difficulty of achievement.

On the other hand, there are ideaological centrists (radical Centrists are really third way acolytes--there is nothing significantly "Radical" about them except their ability to become convinced of an idea with alot of smoke and mirrors)

A person that thinks for himself or consider both sides of an issue is not necessarily a centrists. Those people are independents and they have their leanings on differing issues(Yes, there are people for Robust defense and tax hikes to pay for it!! )

Is there a middle path between left and right--sometimes yes, but most often , it is better to veer left or right or tract a total different direction that neither sides will endorse.

Finally, A WARNING--aiming attack at those that does not follow a pure and ideological line is the quickest way to lose power. Republicans, at first (and under Reagan) did not take such hard lined positions as they do today. That is the reason why the Republican party lost the Congress in 12 (Before this, Democrats held the house for over 30 years and they rarely took the kind of hardlined stances that Republicans due today.)

The trick is to listen to as many sides as possible, find and address the fears of the people expressing them, not take advice from a party in danger of self destruction.
In other words, win over their ears and minds, not tell them what to think. Because Centrists tend to laugh first then move on.

Understand, FDR and Eisenhower were key from the 40's to 60's. Kennedy's and Johnson from the 60's to the 80's Reagan is the legacy from the 80's to 2000. And GWB, regardless of how you feel about him, is the template we will look to for the next generation. Who would have thought that losing an electon(2004) will lead to winning a generation(2000 to 2020)??

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

The world has seen the grand experiments in far-left government -- the Russians and Chinese met with disaster and millions died -- and far-right government -- Hitler, millons dead, and American rightwingers have led us to national bankruptcy three times in 130 years.

Point of order...


You've a few inaccuracies...

First, Fascism is nothing remotely 'right wing'... it is purely a function of the ideological left.

Second, there is no evidence to even SUGGEST that the rightist ideology of individual liberty has or even could POTENTIALLY lead to economic disaster.

If you'd like to post an argument wherein you can show fascism as exemplifying the ideological right, or where the ideologically right concept of individual liberty could lead to economic disaster... I know that at least I would be love to see it.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Well, since everyone made their arguements--let me give some warnings.


Pubulius is correct on one assessment about the center--we will normally follow the easier path--either in terms of common sense or difficulty of achievement.

On the other hand, there are ideaological centrists (radical Centrists are really third way acolytes--there is nothing significantly "Radical" about them except their ability to become convinced of an idea with alot of smoke and mirrors)

A person that thinks for himself or consider both sides of an issue is not necessarily a centrists. Those people are independents and they have their leanings on differing issues(Yes, there are people for Robust defense and tax hikes to pay for it!! )

Is there a middle path between left and right--sometimes yes, but most often , it is better to veer left or right or tract a total different direction that neither sides will endorse.

Finally, A WARNING--aiming attack at those that does not follow a pure and ideological line is the quickest way to lose power. Republicans, at first (and under Reagan) did not take such hard lined positions as they do today. That is the reason why the Republican party lost the Congress in 12 (Before this, Democrats held the house for over 30 years and they rarely took the kind of hardlined stances that Republicans due today.)

The trick is to listen to as many sides as possible, find and address the fears of the people expressing them, not take advice from a party in danger of self destruction.
In other words, win over their ears and minds, not tell them what to think. Because Centrists tend to laugh first then move on.

Understand, FDR and Eisenhower were key from the 40's to 60's. Kennedy's and Johnson from the 60's to the 80's Reagan is the legacy from the 80's to 2000. And GWB, regardless of how you feel about him, is the template we will look to for the next generation. Who would have thought that losing an electon(2004) will lead to winning a generation(2000 to 2020)??

Republicans lost because they failed to govern as advertised... they became CENTRISTS... GW Bush is as close to the working definition of a Centrist that can be found in US Politics and is leaving office with one of the lowest ratings in Presidential History... Which is the popularity tall-grass in comparison to the popularity of the Centrist Congress which was flirting with single digits last time I looked.

People want their leaders to LEAD... Hussein offered the addle-minded something warm and fuzzy... hardly a function of leadership, but he kept his campaign on message 'warm and fuzzy all the time.'

There is no such thing as a Centrist leader; the phrase is a classic oxymoron... centrist do exactly as you've described, they listen to the fears of the sheeple and exploit them. It's what Hitler, Mousillini, Lennin and Mao did and every single one of them rose to power on the backs of the sacred middle...

Now will Hesitant-elect Hussein become an off the hook tyrant? Pretty unlikely, as, contrary to popular belief, there is no where NEAR a majority of people in the US, who, in the final analysis will allow the Executive to concentrate sufficient power to get that done. But, given time and the proper circumstances, such as a national economic failure, a natural disaster or a sufficiently large attack upon the US to cause real prolonged pain and it could happen; The US hasn't seen itself so ripe for such since FDR and today's generation is vastly less intelligent than those of the 1930s and 40s.

But there's little to do now but wait and see... and enjoy the passing scene in the process.