Centrists

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sealybobo, Jan 15, 2009.

  1. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    Centrism pretend to worship at the altar of the great American middle, but in fact they stick closely to a very particular view of events regardless of what the public says it wants.

    That’s why it is so obviously preferable to be part of the movement that doesn’t compromise easily than to depend on the one that has developed a cult of the almighty center.

    Even a conservative as ham-handed as former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay seems to understand this.

    As he recounted in his 2007 memoirs, Republicans under his leadership learned “to start every policy initiative from as far to the political right as we could.” The effect was to “move the center farther to the right,” drawing the triangulating Clinton along with it.

    President-elect Obama can learn something from Mr. DeLay’s confession: Centrism is a chump’s game. Democrats have massive majorities these days not because they waffle hither and yon but because their historic principles have been vindicated by events. This is their moment. Let the other side do the triangulating.

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    Donkey Drops » Blog Archive » Obama Should Act Like He Won


    Obama Should Act Like He Won - WSJ.com

    This is a great article on why being a centrists sucks. I used to defend Obama saying, "he's not a liberal, he's a centrists like Clinton", but now I hope he isn't too much of a centrist. Clinton signed NAFTA and deregulated the media. He shouldn't have done those things. He should have ruled from the center left, not the center. And I hope Obama doesn't give in too much. He should remember that we/he won.
     
  2. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    As we anxiously await the debut of the Obama administration, we hear more and more about the incoming president's "post-partisan" instincts. He has filled his cabinet with relics of the centrist Clinton years. He has engaged the evangelical pastor Rick Warren to give the invocation at his inauguration. And according to Politico, he wants 80 Senate votes for his stimulus plan -- a goal that would mean winning a majority among Republicans as well as Democrats.
    Maybe these will turn out to be wise moves. Maybe they won't.
    Audacity they ain't, though. There is no branch of American political expression more trite, more smug, more hollow than centrism.
    The reason centrism finds an enthusiastic audience in Washington, I think, is because it appeals naturally to the Beltway journalistic mindset, with its professional prohibition against coming down solidly on one side or the other of any question. Splitting the difference is a way of life in this cynical town. To hear politicians insist that it is also the way of the statesman, I suspect, gives journalists a secret thrill.
    As this should remind us, the real-world function of Beltway centrism has not been to wage high-minded war against "both extremes" but to fight specifically against the economic and foreign policies of liberalism. Centrism's institutional triumphs have been won mainly if not entirely within the Democratic Party. Its greatest exponent, President Bill Clinton, persistently used his own movement as a foil in his great game of triangulation.
    And centrism's achievements? Well, there's Nafta, which proved Democrats could stand up to labor. There's the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act. There's the Iraq war resolution, approved by numerous Democrats in brave defiance of their party's left. Triumphs all.
    That's why it is so obviously preferable to be part of the movement that doesn't compromise easily than to depend on the one that has developed a cult of the almighty center.
     
  3. PubliusInfinitum
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    "Centrists," OKA: those that seek the 'middle-way;' also known as fascists are the cultural vehicle by which socialism is validated; THUS Centrists are part and parcel of THE PROBLEM.

    When one validates the center, one validates the left and where one validates the left, one subjects their culture to the debilitating effects of leftism and inevitably dooms that culture to ruin.

    Most centrists are cattle... they will go where it is easiest to go; thus the addle-minded notions of the left appeal to them... the 'do-for-me' policies which promise the burden to be placed upon the ethereal 'rich' makes life easy, so it sells well to the centrist.

    However where the centrist is made aware of the reality of socialism, they will readily reject it. They only lean left where the left is promises of social lollipops; where US Conservatism is unapologetically set forth; where individual liberty is raised up as the alternative to the empty promises (outright LIES) of the Left; where each member of the culture is equal in their rights, to the next and limited only by their own personal limitations; the centrist will almost always follow freedom.

    But Centrists do not become such because they possess above average courage or talent for insight... where they are bombarded with empty promises, they will readily buy into them and in so doing follow that wide open path to individual and cultural demise.
     
  4. PubliusInfinitum
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    ROFL... WRONG. Centrists are about as rigid as an ideological noodle... soaked in a political boil they'll readily comply with whom ever has applied the heat... left to dry in malaise, apathy quickly sets in and the slightest pressure snaps their nearly non-existent will. They are the middle for a reason... they're malleable... commonly and proudly proclaiming themselves as seeing good and bad in the ethereal 'extremes', placing themselves in that cushy middle where they erroneously feel 'reason' rests.

    Oh GOD... Now that's precious... This is CLASSIC Centrism... Centrists do not think of themselves as the mealy-mouther, splineless twits that they are... they think of themselves as the intelligent 'middle'...

    LOL... a part of that movement determined to jump over the cliff, some ready to compromise on the idea of an alternative path; others on the compromise to provide the means to decelerate to non-lethal velocities prior to meeting the next level of terra firma... but NONE OF THEM CONCERNED WITH WHAT IS AT THE BOTTOM...

    What is preferable is to be in possession of the means to understand bed-rock principles and thus the certain knowledge that violating those principles will result in DISASTER; thus avoiding the unenviable membership in movements inalterably rushing towards the aforementioned cliffs; where that principle demands: LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP!

    Centrists are to be lead and one cannot serve leadership by being concerned with the desires of those being lead.

    Ya see, LEADERS LEAD... and centrists FOLLOW. It's not a complex issue, it's simply made to appear complex by delusional moderates (pardon the redundancy) who need it to be complex in order to soothe their aching self-esteems.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
  5. sealybobo
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    The way I understood the articles I read, center hurts the left, not the right. Great example is Clinton. Clinton tried to rule from the center and worked with Newt's congress on welfare reform, deregulating the media, nafta and welfare reform.

    All those things were bad for the left.

    The GOP started every conversation from the far right and moved to the center, if they moved at all. Tom Delay admitted this in his book.

    So Obama needs to start every argument from the far left.

    Examples:

    We need to socialize medicine. Start there. And then when that gets shot down, meet somewhere in the middle. So don't start in the middle, because we are in charge. If we start in the middle, then we can only move to the right.

    Tax the rich more!!! And when that gets shot down, then just take away their unfair tax breaks.

    Tariff every company that is not in America but sends products to America. When the GOP filabusts that idea, then compromise by just taking away their tax breaks and closing loopholes.
     
  6. rayboyusmc
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    rayboyusmc Senior Member

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    And conservatives like you are morons who don't have a clue what a centrist or a moderate will do.

    you see the world in black and white.

    It ain't.

    Trust me. A lot of moderates will go right up to the wall for their beliefs. It's a funny thing that extremists think they are the only ones with passion in their belief. It isn't passion, they have, it's a delusional idea that only they have the grasp on truth.

    One can be a centrtist/moderate in one area and more left or right on other areas.

    You world view is too simplistic for reality.
     
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  7. PubliusInfinitum
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    Wow... The center helps those the center is following. Reagan drew the moderates; they helped him... Clinton lulled the moderates and SURE ENOUGH, they helped him.


    But the idea that the Clinton regime 'worked with' the Gingrich Congress is absurd. They had little choice... if Clinton had bucked Gingrich lead legislation he would have lost 96... the Centrists flocked to the leadership of Gingrich, which Clinton co-opted... and whereupon the center followed right along...


    The GOP has never started any conversation from the far right, because there is no such thing as 'the far right'... That place exist right next door to Nirvana... which is a 'burb of Utopia. The GOP is a fluid party which has always been of a centrist mindset... to appeal to as many people as possible, to be 'liked'... and it is that desire to be liked which has crippled it.

    The history of the GOP is rife with peaks where it found a spine and began to preach that on which it was founded; the principles of INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY: CONSERVATISM: AMERICANISM; which is quickly followed by the desire 'to be liked by as many people as possible' and the collapse back into political obscurity...

    LOL... I see what you're saying, but the left does not move to the center. It draws the center to the left.

    It has always done this... which is how the US has become a nation where deviancy is normalized and the US establishes a Marxist Muslim as President only 7 years after the US was attacked by Marxist Muslims... the left uses compromise TO MOVE THE NATION LEFT... The GOP uses compromise to make a deal...

    Sadly, we've come to a point where Americans can no longer afford the GOP as it has become; requiring a massive overhaul. This is not a plea for a third party, this is a demand for a violent revolt; which will transform the GOP into a system disinterested in compromise which does not move the country back towards the principles of INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY and FREEDOM... back towards AMERICANISM.

    Now either that will happen or it won't... If it happens... America will survive. It if does not happen, America will become a fading memory and freedom, INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM will be lost to this earth, very possibly, forever.
     
  8. BlackAsCoal
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    BlackAsCoal Gold Member

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    Centrists are the most useless political animal in America. They don't stand on or for anything .. only what's easy.

    Republicans have far more courage and will than democrats. They know centrism is for losers.

    One of the great failings of Obama can be called right now. No matter how much he bends over and drops his pants for the right, they will never embrace him and will do anything in their power to destroy him. He's talking nice to Rush Limbaugh. What a pussy Obama is.
     
  9. PubliusInfinitum
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    and yet another 'centrist' chimes in...


    I see the word as it exists... In every level of contrast, shade and color.

    That you're a centrists desperate to bolster your delusional self image that centrism is something other than fascism, which moves the world left is perfectly understandable... but understanding it doesn't make your position more intellectual sound or logically valid.

    I DO trust you, pogue... I trust you to be and say exactly what I know you to be... a fool in the extreme and to say that which is typical of such; I trust you to present a single dimensional argument of no discernable depth which is forced to redefine the words which are common to the concepts which they are designed to impart; this in order to reject absent a sound foundation that which does not fit within the delicate framework that is your self esteem... and you rarely dissapoint.

    LOL... thus blurring the distinction of the concepts moderate and extremist... BRILLIANT!

    Meaning that even moderates are extremists... So you're saying that there really is no such thing as a moderate and an extremist? So how exactly does that help ya here, Pogue?

    I see... So your world view is moderates are extreme in the moderation... and moderate in the extremism; and that my position that moderates tend towards molding themselves into whatever forces are applied against them, by rationalizing around valid principle, readily changing predetermined concepts to fit their self image, instead of standing upon valid principle, holding to the reality of those pre-determined concepts, thus projecting their self image as reality; and forging the cultural steel to fit that certainty is a distortion OF reality?

    Well that sounds about right... it's CLASSIC centrist drivel. Congrats! You're a CERTIFIED CENTRIST!
     
  10. sealybobo
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    I will agree that the Republicans will never embrace him and will do everything in their power to destroy him, but I don't know that he is making a mistake. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

    He already got a preacher to drop his ban of gays in his mega church. I don't know if its that guy doing the invocation, but it was one of those evangelicals. Anyways, he's already made progress there.

    And fyi, it is going to take faith to fix this economy. If not, no one will invest or buy anything if there is no faith. Thats why it is a good thing that Obama has over a 70% approval rating right now. You 30% should be ashamed of yourselves. You are the pussies. Are you suggesting we will never get out of this mess? Because the GOP certainly won't get us out. So if Obama can't, no one can. If Obama won't, no one will. Do you get that?

    And it isn't going to be his "failing". He won't let them play him.

    And just like you thought he couldn't win and he proved you wrong, he'll prove you wrong here too.

    Will he do away with the Federal Reserve and bring manufacuturing jobs back to America? I don't know that he can do either. I hear Kennedy was considering looking into the Federal Reserve before he got popped. Maybe that's a road Obama isn't willing to go down.

    But if he doesn't fix labor/jobs/wages/unemployment, we are screwed my brother. So you better hope you are wrong.
     

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