centerfire shots can be heard almost 2 miles.

[prison/con.net]

There's 4 million square miles in the lower 48 states. If shtf, there will be nothing to keep 50 million Mexicans out of the US. So figure 90 people per square mile. Less than 1/4 of our acreage is waf for survival purposes, so 360 people per square mile. A 1 mile radius, squared, x 3.14 "pi") means 1000 people hear your stupid arse fire an unsuppressed centerfire and many will know the boom of a shotgun, vs a rifle crack. So not only have you told them where you are and that you're stupid enough to not use/have a silencer, you've told half of them that you're even more incompetent. The riot shotgun is pretty much worthless for combat, beyond about 30 yds, if the enemy is using cover, or even if just wearing helmets and lying head on prone towards you.

no you aint any good with 12 ga slugs. Nobody is, at $1 per shot, with bad sights, bad trigger pull of shotgun, heavy recoil, from either shoulder. If you were, you'd be using a rifle, at 45c per shot. Better yet, of course, you'd have a .22 conversion unit and be practicing for 15c per shot, since the silencer for the 223 auto makes the full power 223 just as "tame' to use as the unsilenced .22. in fact, it's so tame that you can practice a lot of your snap shooting, (either shoulder, at night, on movers, cover users, while moving, in your backyard, with an Airsoft replica of your rifle.

 

[WinterBorn]

There's 4 million square miles in the lower 48 states. If shtf, there will be nothing to keep 50 million Mexicans out of the US. So figure 90 people per square mile. Less than 1/4 of our acreage is waf for survival purposes, so 360 people per square mile. A 1 mile radius, squared, x 3.14 "pi") means 1000 people hear your stupid arse fire an unsuppressed centerfire and many will know the boom of a shotgun, vs a rifle crack. So not only have you told them where you are and that you're stupid enough to not use/have a silencer, you've told half of them that you're even more incompetent. The riot shotgun is pretty much worthless for combat, beyond about 30 yds, if the enemy is using cover, or even if just wearing helmets and lying head on prone towards you.

no you aint any good with 12 ga slugs. Nobody is, at $1 per shot, with bad sights, bad trigger pull of shotgun, heavy recoil, from either shoulder. If you were, you'd be using a rifle, at 45c per shot. Better yet, of course, you'd have a .22 conversion unit and be practicing for 15c per shot, since the silencer for the 223 auto makes the full power 223 just as "tame' to use as the unsilenced .22. in fact, it's so tame that you can practice a lot of your snap shooting, (either shoulder, at night, on movers, cover users, while moving, in your backyard, with an Airsoft replica of your rifle.

Why would the mexicans be coming here after the SHTF? Looking for jobs? The US has more guns per capita than almost any place in the world. But you think there will be lots of mexicans coming in after a collapse? lmao

 

[shadow355]

....centerfire and many will know the boom of a shotgun, vs a rifle crack.

Sound travels at about 1,080 feet per second, roughly it takes sound to travel about 4.8 to 5 seconds to travel a mile - which translates to about 9.6 to 10 seconds for two miles. That seems reasonable to me to be able to hear a gunshot two miles.

Remember the old saying, as well as past U.S. Military education ( especially during the 1960's era ) that when you see the flash start counting....and the number of seconds that passed was the number of miles away the flash ( gunshot / muzzle blast - artillery - lightening from clouds ) was. Well sound does not travel at 5,280 feet per second....so those teachings were wrong.

Shadow 355

 

[mamooth]

Bugging out to the woods if TSHTF is a really 'effin stupid idea. All the morons who try are gonna starve. Except for the cannibals.

 

[WinterBorn]

....centerfire and many will know the boom of a shotgun, vs a rifle crack.

Sound travels at about 1,080 feet per second, roughly it takes sound to travel about 4.8 to 5 seconds to travel a mile - which translates to about 9.6 to 10 seconds for two miles. That seems reasonable to me to be able to hear a gunshot two miles.

Remember the old saying, as well as past U.S. Military education ( especially during the 1960's era ) that when you see the flash start counting....and the number of seconds that passed was the number of miles away the flash ( gunshot / muzzle blast - artillery - lightening from clouds ) was. Well sound does not travel at 5,280 feet per second....so those teachings were wrong.

Shadow 355

If sound traveled at 5,280 feet per second you would hear the sounds at the same time you saw the flash.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Has any nation equipped their general issue weapons with silencers?
Do you think there might be good reasons why not?

 

[shadow355]

Bugging out to the woods if TSHTF is a really 'effin stupid idea. All the morons who try are gonna starve. Except for the cannibals.

Wooded areas are great for cover and concealment . Soil is a good barrier and a good insulator. Game can be had for eating. Water from hillsides and springs can be drank. Shelters can be built from resources in the woods.

Shadow 355

 

[mamooth]

Wooded areas are great for cover and concealment . Soil is a good barrier and a good insulator.

You know what's even better? Your freakin' house. Even without fuel or electricity for heat, it's way the hell better than the woods.

But no, don't stay there. Abandon a perfect shelter and all the tools there that you could use to survive, and instead run out to the woods.

Game can be had for eating. Water from hillsides and springs can be drank. Shelters can be built from resources in the woods

And as a bunch of people have run to the woods, the game runs out almost immediately. Then everyone who had the bright idea about bugging out to the woods starves. Meanwhile, what food is being grown will get delivered ... to the cities.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Wooded areas are great for cover and concealment . Soil is a good barrier and a good insulator.

You know what's even better? Your freakin' house. Even without fuel or electricity for heat, it's way the hell better than the woods.

But no, don't stay there. Abandon a perfect shelter and all the tools there that you could use to survive, and instead run out to the woods.

Game can be had for eating. Water from hillsides and springs can be drank. Shelters can be built from resources in the woods

And as a bunch of people have run to the woods, the game runs out almost immediately. Then everyone who had the bright idea about bugging out to the woods starves. Meanwhile, what food is being grown will get delivered ... to the cities.

Your house is the first place looters are going to be looking for you and your shit.
Suburbia is no longer going to be Beaver Cleaverish.

 

[mamooth]

Yeah, that's right. Panic and leave over the threat of the phantom looters. Good idea. You go with that. I won't.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Yeah, that's right. Panic and leave over the threat of the phantom looters. Good idea. You go with that. I won't.

If things get to the point where people are starving and there's no law enforcement,those starving people are going to go where the concentration of food is the highest.
They'll be going house to house in suburbia.
And if you put up a fight they'll just burn you out.

Now if you lived in the boonies with clear fields of fire rather than a neighborhood where you can piss on your neighbors house you'd have a better chance.
Of course you'd have to fortify the shit out of your country home and bring in enough people to protect it.

 

[9thIDdoc]

"And as a bunch of people have run to the woods, the game runs out almost immediately. Then everyone who had the bright idea about bugging out to the woods starves. Meanwhile, what food is being grown will get delivered ... to the cities".

No. In any really serious SHTF situation the people in cities will starve or die of thirst and disease very quickly. And that's assuming their neighbors haven't killed them for what they have stored first. Transportation systems would cease to function and any food that could still be grown would not be delivered. Without electricity most fuel and water pumps would be disabled. Without fresh water flow most sewage systems would stop functioning and back up. Home heating/cooling systems would fail. Without electricity banks, credit cards, checks, and debit cards would be non-functional. Even cash would likely become worthless. Barter would be the order of the day. What would city folks have to trade for precious food and water?

 

[Alystyr]

What would city folks have to trade for precious food and water?

Probably a few things.
Hand tools are always useful.
A strong back would usually be welcome.
Firearms and/or the skill to use them.
Skills/knowledge.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

What would city folks have to trade for precious food and water?

Probably a few things.
Hand tools are always useful.
A strong back would usually be welcome.
Firearms and/or the skill to use them.
Skills/knowledge.

Not to many city folk have any of those things.

 

[Alystyr]

What would city folks have to trade for precious food and water?

Probably a few things.
Hand tools are always useful.
A strong back would usually be welcome.
Firearms and/or the skill to use them.
Skills/knowledge.

Not to many city folk have any of those things.

You might be surprised...
Plenty of mechanics, plumbers, electricians, etc. (all with their own tools) in the city that could trade service for supplies.
Plus you have all of the current/former law enforcement and military that may be willing to do the same.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

What would city folks have to trade for precious food and water?

Probably a few things.
Hand tools are always useful.
A strong back would usually be welcome.
Firearms and/or the skill to use them.
Skills/knowledge.

Not to many city folk have any of those things.

You might be surprised...
Plenty of mechanics, plumbers, electricians, etc. (all with their own tools) in the city that could trade service for supplies.
Plus you have all of the current/former law enforcement and military that may be willing to do the same.

That would depend how long things were in the shitter and what kind of city you're talking about.
If things went bad for a long period you wont be needing electricians,mechanics,plumbers or anyone else who works on modern equipment.
And I'm talking about people who live downtown,ride the bus,subway or take a cab. Those people are pretty much screwed because they rely on everyday food delivery,aren't likely to own a firearm,dont know shit about hunting and fishing let alone gardening.
Cops or ex cops aren't going to be much use,they dont know jack about small unit tactics,how to set up defenses and the like.
Now military personal would be an advantage but they're more than likely going to be protecting their own families.

 

[Rotagilla]

Bugging out to the woods if TSHTF is a really 'effin stupid idea. All the morons who try are gonna starve. Except for the cannibals.

heh heh..yup...but the people who live out there will be just fine...and there are millions..

 

[Alystyr]

And I'm talking about people who live downtown,ride the bus,subway or take a cab. Those people are pretty much screwed because they rely on everyday food delivery,aren't likely to own a firearm,dont know shit about hunting and fishing let alone gardening.

You're dead-on with that. The cubicle dwellers will be the first to go, no question.

If things went bad for a long period you wont be needing electricians,mechanics,plumbers or anyone else who works on modern equipment.

However, you will be needing those with a general mechanical aptitude, and people usually go into those professions because they're good with their hands and have decent problem-solving skills. Of course, there'll be exceptions, but generally anyone in those jobs would end up more of a benefit than a burden.

Cops or ex cops aren't going to be much use,they dont know jack about small unit tactics,how to set up defenses and the like.

Unless, of course, they're former military, which many tend to be (my experience locally). Worst case, they at least know which part of a weapon the bullet comes out of - or should.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And I'm talking about people who live downtown,ride the bus,subway or take a cab. Those people are pretty much screwed because they rely on everyday food delivery,aren't likely to own a firearm,dont know shit about hunting and fishing let alone gardening.

You're dead-on with that. The cubicle dwellers will be the first to go, no question.

If things went bad for a long period you wont be needing electricians,mechanics,plumbers or anyone else who works on modern equipment.

However, you will be needing those with a general mechanical aptitude, and people usually go into those professions because they're good with their hands and have decent problem-solving skills. Of course, there'll be exceptions, but generally anyone in those jobs would end up more of a benefit than a burden.

Cops or ex cops aren't going to be much use,they dont know jack about small unit tactics,how to set up defenses and the like.

Unless, of course, they're former military, which many tend to be (my experience locally). Worst case, they at least know which part of a weapon the bullet comes out of - or should.

The last quote is the only one I can agree with.
An electrician that lives in the city is still a city boy.

 

[CremeBrulee]

OP spent too much time down range.