Census finds record gap between Rich and Poor

[DiamondDave]

Horseshit on ever being able to pay for college with minimum wage.
In 1974, my annual tuition at State University of New York was $650. At $2 an hour, that is about 325 hours work. Try to do that on minimum wage today

My stepdad paid for his undergrad in NY and MASTERS in Georgia with a part time job and graduated with no debt... in the 70's - just when the war against labor began. His electrical engingeering degree would cost well over $100K today.

Good for him.. glad to hear it... glad to see someone made some great choices in what they did, how they did it, etc.... just as many now need to take care of their personal wants and needs with proper choices and actions...

 

[Bern80]

Horseshit on ever being able to pay for college with minimum wage.
In 1974, my annual tuition at State University of New York was $650. At $2 an hour, that is about 325 hours work. Try to do that on minimum wage today

My stepdad paid for his undergrad in NY and MASTERS in Georgia with a part time job and graduated with no debt... in the 70's - just when the war against labor began. His electrical engingeering degree would cost well over $100K today.

I don't get what this has to do with the widening gap between rich and poor. The gap is not what caused college tuition to increase. Why aren't you barking up the tree of those schools you attended to find out why the cost of tuition is skyrocketing?

 

[rightwinger]

Yeah right.
More people own cars, homes, TVs, computers, etc.
Most people have cell phones, I-Pads, pods etc.
TVs in evey room. Internet, cable, entertainment systems.
And that is just a small sample.

We are far better off then just 30 years ago.

Consumer goods are more achievable. But when you compare the ability of the average worker to qualify for a home based on one salary, afford healthcare, pay for college for their kids, pay for heat and electric...the standard of living has declined from what it was a generation ago.

My father had a HS education and worked for 40 years climbing poles for the phone company. On just one salary, he bought a 2000 sq ft home on an acre of land, sent four kids to college without going into debt, had a union paid healthcare plan with no deductables.

Todays family has to rely on two incomes to buy a basic home and goes deep into debt to send their kids to college. The standard of living has noticeably declined

The big reason that has changed is because business is figuing out it simply can't afford these ridiculous pensions. Business can't afford to fund the retirements of the entire baby boomer generation. Nor should they. So there has been a shift from defined benefit retirement plans to defined contribution plans. The later of which you are expected to contribute to. Either way business is usually still kicking in something for you. The later they aren't responsible for you after you leave the company however.

Good point, I forgot about how the working class used to be able to count on a pension to go along with full health benefits, and a salary that enabled you to support your wife and kids and pay for their education.

Are you still questioning that the gap between the rich and working class has widened?

 

[topspin]

this shit is hillarious
Hey, I'm a turbo-lib I'm for the gov paying for 4 yrs if you can get in, but we'd have to gut the babykiller military budget to do that. We all know the baby killers get funded first.

Our standard of living is way better than 30 yrs ago, we have more, we live longer etc.

Quit your asinine labeling of my military brothers and sisters as "baby killers", you ignorant twit

fuck you, tell the conservatards to stop calling liberals socialist first.

 

[topspin]

I'm glad the gap is widening.
Look at country's with no gap or no rich. Is that what you want?

If a lazy cajun like me can get rich, almost anyone can.

 

[DiamondDave]

this shit is hillarious
Hey, I'm a turbo-lib I'm for the gov paying for 4 yrs if you can get in, but we'd have to gut the babykiller military budget to do that. We all know the baby killers get funded first.

Our standard of living is way better than 30 yrs ago, we have more, we live longer etc.

Quit your asinine labeling of my military brothers and sisters as "baby killers", you ignorant twit

fuck you, tell the conservatards to stop calling liberals socialist first.

Welcome to the ignore list

 

[topspin]

Quit your asinine labeling of my military brothers and sisters as "baby killers", you ignorant twit

fuck you, tell the conservatards to stop calling liberals socialist first.

Welcome to the ignore list

oh shit no, a babykiller put me on ignore.
I might lose half a nano second of sleep tonight.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

I don't get what this has to do with the widening gap between rich and poor. The gap is not what caused college tuition to increase. Why aren't you barking up the tree of those schools you attended to find out why the cost of tuition is skyrocketing?

Because, it used to be that a poor person could work their way through college and come out with a useful degree and no debt - ready to conquer the world, but today, that same poor person will be saddled with the equivalent of having bought a small house in some areas before his "career" even begins. I would say that has very much to do with the widening wealth gap. And tuition is going up because they can basically charge what they want and get away with it, especially private schools. You ether pay the money and get an education or you don't. What would you choose?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Good for him.. glad to hear it... glad to see someone made some great choices in what they did, how they did it, etc.... just as many now need to take care of their personal wants and needs with proper choices and actions...

Point is, you cannot even get away with this by working a FULL TIME job and going to school these days and being able to pay for it outright. That has nothing to do w/choices...

 

[Bern80]

This is as good a place as any for this little rant:

People and especially the left absouletely refuse to see the effect that human nature and personal decisions shape society and how it progresses as a whole.

The gap between rich and poor is as good an example as ay. What are the variables that are contributing to this widening gap? Libs go about blaming everything under the sun for this problem EXCEPT for one thing. Themselves. By themselves I mean the attitutudes and decisions of individuals. You people talk about the middle class as if it is something that is just suppossed to happen to you. Like it requires no effort on your part. Like you are ENTITLED to be middle class. First it indeed did take effort on the part of your parents to achieve middle class. I know it did mine. Second of all middle class now is not what middle class was then. Then you were middle class if you had ONE TV and it was in color. Now middle class is a TV in every room with satelite or cable. There was no such thing as cell phone bills or internet bills. To paraphrase it take more 'stuff' to be considered middle class now then it did then. Thus it's going to take more relative income. The problem is everyone wants those things but no one wants to hold themselves responsible for attaining them. As Dave pointed out, have that 'stuff' is the sole 'problem' of the person who wants that 'stuff'. Society doesn't owe you the status symbols that denote being middle class. It takes X amount of effort to get those things and probably more than it once did. Either you are willing to do the work or you're not. And another shift people need to wake up to is that the work is no longer about how hard you work. It's about how smart you work.

The other problem is that society tends to move toward greater and greater convenience. We move to that becuase we want things now and we want it to be easy. If it's too hard we won't do it. We are an instant gratification society. We have grown to expect things to happen with little effort. Unfortuantely attaining middle class takes effort and the reason it is disappearing is not because of whose getting what tax cuts, or 'evil' corporate america holding people down. It's because more and more people do not hold themselves accountable for why they are where they are and aren't willing to do what it takes to achieve more.

 

[DiamondDave]

Good for him.. glad to hear it... glad to see someone made some great choices in what they did, how they did it, etc.... just as many now need to take care of their personal wants and needs with proper choices and actions...

Point is, you cannot even get away with this by working a FULL TIME job and going to school these days and being able to pay for it outright. That has nothing to do w/choices...

Bullshit... It does indeed have to do with choices.. nobody is forcing another to go to college, or a particular college, or full time over part time...

The forcing comes from those on the left who think others should be forced to subsidize your want to go to college

You can work your way thru.. most just do not choose the hard road it takes to do so...

 

[rightwinger]

I admire the University of Texas. But even in your example of a state funded university. $5000 a semester equals $40,000 tuition for four years. Add room and board, books, fees and other expenses and you are looking at $75,000 to $80,000 for what you consider an inexpensive education.

Hard for a college kid to pay for when you make $7 an hour minimum wage

You used to be able to pay for college making minimum wage

Used to be able to buy gas for $0.65 a gallon... used to be able to play pinball for $0.10... used to be able to pay $200 a month rent for a 2BR place....

If someone CHOOSES college, they assume the risks of the choice including failure, cost, time, etc... you're over 18 an want to attend, that is your prerogative.... but it ain't owed to you and it's not the government's nor any other groups job to make it easy for you because of your want..

Let alone the choices of maybe living at home longer... working a higher paying job you don't like to earn more to pay for it... working your butt off for a scholarship... taking an entry level job at a company that offers some tuition reimbursement as an employment benefit... going part time for a while... there are lots of CHOICES

The level of whining by ones such as yourself, wrongwinger, is astounding... if young adults would put as much effort into doing what they have to do to get what they want, as you do into your government "gimme gimme gimme" rants, they would be a lot better off

Getting back on topic..

The issue is that the standard of living for working Americans is not what it was a generation ago.

- Used to be able to buy a house and support your family without your wife working...now you can't
- Used to be able to pay for college making minimum wage...now you can't
- Used to have your medical insurance paid by your employer or union....now you pay a large portion and significant copays

All this impacts everyones life, and yet.......we still talk about cutting taxes on the super rich

The point is that our parents generation used to be able to afford a home, generous pension, generous health benefits, low cost college educations, low cost energy....all on a single salary that was mostly blue collar

What has changed from the 50's and 60s??

The tax structure was been severely restructured in the 80s to allow the wealthy to keep more of available wealth. Worker rules have been relaxed. Worker salaries have stagnated.

And yet the Conservatives still want to give more tax cuts to the wealthy

 

[topspin]

and those that work hard can achieve way more than the 60 and 70's. LOL
I do not long for the shitty past, our best days are ahead of us.

 

[uscitizen]

BTW, what the hell is the census doing giving out this info?
The census was supposed to be just for determining how many people there are.

]
Translation.
I don't want my tax dollars going to a study that exposes falacies in my political position?

 

[uscitizen]

btw I apparently had the short form census and I do not even recall an income space to fill in.

I guess the govt already has all the income figures.

 

[DiamondDave]

Used to be able to buy gas for $0.65 a gallon... used to be able to play pinball for $0.10... used to be able to pay $200 a month rent for a 2BR place....

If someone CHOOSES college, they assume the risks of the choice including failure, cost, time, etc... you're over 18 an want to attend, that is your prerogative.... but it ain't owed to you and it's not the government's nor any other groups job to make it easy for you because of your want..

Let alone the choices of maybe living at home longer... working a higher paying job you don't like to earn more to pay for it... working your butt off for a scholarship... taking an entry level job at a company that offers some tuition reimbursement as an employment benefit... going part time for a while... there are lots of CHOICES

The level of whining by ones such as yourself, wrongwinger, is astounding... if young adults would put as much effort into doing what they have to do to get what they want, as you do into your government "gimme gimme gimme" rants, they would be a lot better off

Getting back on topic..

The issue is that the standard of living for working Americans is not what it was a generation ago.

- Used to be able to buy a house and support your family without your wife working...now you can't
- Used to be able to pay for college making minimum wage...now you can't
- Used to have your medical insurance paid by your employer or union....now you pay a large portion and significant copays

All this impacts everyones life, and yet.......we still talk about cutting taxes on the super rich

The point is that our parents generation used to be able to afford a home, generous pension, generous health benefits, low cost college educations, low cost energy....all on a single salary that was mostly blue collar

What has changed from the 50's and 60s??

The tax structure was been severely restructured in the 80s to allow the wealthy to keep more of available wealth. Worker rules have been relaxed. Worker salaries have stagnated.

And yet the Conservatives still want to give more tax cuts to the wealthy

Yes... allowing people to keep more of their earnings or wealth is a bad thing

Because you think you are entitled to the benefits of someone else's efforts and wealth....

The point is anyone has the freedom to do what they want to or need to to attain their goals.. whether that be a single income family and a house, or tuition for college, or buying a great car, or buying health care insurance, or whatever else.... those things are not simply owed to you because of your greedy want... and you may succeed in obtaining your goals, and you may not... and that's all part of freedom

 

[Mr. Peepers]

This is as good a place as any for this little rant:

People and especially the left absouletely refuse to see the effect that human nature and personal decisions shape society and how it progresses as a whole.

The gap between rich and poor is as good an example as ay. What are the variables that are contributing to this widening gap? Libs go about blaming everything under the sun for this problem EXCEPT for one thing. Themselves. By themselves I mean the attitutudes and decisions of individuals. You people talk about the middle class as if it is something that is just suppossed to happen to you. Like it requires no effort on your part. Like you are ENTITLED to be middle class. First it indeed did take effort on the part of your parents to achieve middle class. I know it did mine. Second of all middle class now is not what middle class was then. Then you were middle class if you had ONE TV and it was in color. Now middle class is a TV in every room with satelite or cable. There was no such thing as cell phone bills or internet bills. To paraphrase it take more 'stuff' to be considered middle class now then it did then. Thus it's going to take more relative income. The problem is everyone wants those things but no one wants to hold themselves responsible for attaining them. As Dave pointed out, have that 'stuff' is the sole 'problem' of the person who wants that 'stuff'. Society doesn't owe you the status symbols that denote being middle class. It takes X amount of effort to get those things and probably more than it once did. Either you are willing to do the work or you're not. And another shift people need to wake up to is that the work is no longer about how hard you work. It's about how smart you work.

The other problem is that society tends to move toward greater and greater convenience. We move to that becuase we want things now and we want it to be easy. If it's too hard we won't do it. We are an instant gratification society. We have grown to expect things to happen with little effort. Unfortuantely attaining middle class takes effort and the reason it is disappearing is not because of whose getting what tax cuts, or 'evil' corporate america holding people down. It's because more and more people do not hold themselves accountable for why they are where they are and aren't willing to do what it takes to achieve more.

Sorry, but that is not true. The middle class is shrinking because the cost of goods and services has now outstripped wages. Wages have been stagnant since the 70's and are now in decline. It is exactly the "corporate culture", globalization and "free trade" agreements that hve caused this.

the u.s. middle class is being wiped out here's the stats to prove it: Tech Ticker, Yahoo! Finance

 

[Mr. Peepers]

The forcing comes from those on the left who think others should be forced to subsidize your want to go to college

You can work your way thru.. most just do not choose the hard road it takes to do so...

You could "work your way through" 100K to get an engineering degree? How many people can do that? Very few (you'd have to be already rich). C'mon, stop being so stupid.

 

[topspin]

millions, student loans

 

[Mr. Peepers]

millions, student loans

My student loans cost me 7% in interest and took me 10 years to pay off... and I only borrowed 7K. How on earth is someone supposed to pay off 100K and start a family, buy a house, start a business, plan for retirement, invest etc. Do you not think that starting out in this big of a hole is a problem for millions in this country??? An electrical engineer is a very important, skilled worker, but you don't start out making six figures, you know. Do you think that the high price of education, especially in science, technology and medicine are some of the reasons that we are lacking educated people in these areas so much that we have to import them from Europe and the far east? Did that ever occur to you?