Celibacy

[roomy]

?

 

[fuzzykitten99]

Whenever you have found yourself going through periods of celibacy because of the lack of a willing partner do you go out and rape someone or molest a child?No, neither do I, so where the fucking hell do all these fucking rapists and paedophiles come from?Why can't they control themselves as we can?

because the liberal judges think these people need to be coddled and told that it isn't their fault, even though they know what they did was wrong. Then they are re-released back into public with a slap on the wrist -barely even that.

 

[dilloduck]

because the liberal judges think these people need to be coddled and told that it isn't their fault, even though they know what they did was wrong. Then they are re-released back into public with a slap on the wrist -barely even that.

Yup---holding anyone responsible for thier behavior is "oppressive"

Asking anyone to sacrifice anything for the good of the country is down right tyranny.

 

[jillian]

Rape has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with violence.

Pedophilia is a psychological issue...and most pedophiles were abused, are incurable and should never be allowed back into society.

 

[dmp]

Rape has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with violence.

You can't possibly believe that, can you?

Pedophilia is a psychological issue...and most pedophiles were abused...

Substitute "Homosexuality" for "pedophilia" and that can still be accurate.

 

[5stringJeff]

You can't possibly believe that, can you?



Substitute "Homosexuality" for "pedophilia" and that can still be accurate.

On the first point, I think she's partially right.

On the second point, I think you are correct as well.

 

[Nienna]

Rape has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with violence.

I wouldn't say it has NOTHING to do with sex. Depends on the type of rape. Serial rapists have deep psychological issues that tempt them to violence, and their violent outlet just happens to be sexual.

Then you have your frat-boy-drunk-at-a-party-take-advantage-of-the-chick-passed-out-on-the-bed-rape. That's mostly just about sex.

 

[dmp]

On the first point, I think she's partially right.

On the second point, I think you are correct as well.

No - I doubt she's right at all.

I agree with this:

Rape Is About Sex! Duh!
One of the stranger claims made in recent days is that "rape is not about sex."

Over and over it has been said that rape is not about sex, it is about power and control. "Rape is best characterized as torture that uses sex as a weapon. Like a torturer, the rapist uses sexual acts to dominate, humiliate, and terrorize the victim". Perhaps one might understand that that is the victim's interpretation, but we are told that "Rape is not about sex to the rapist; it has to do with control and power."

Not just sometimes, but every time.

Hogwash. Utter hogwash. Despite my problems with Alas, a Blog, on this particular point which Ampersand is correct:

Men who rape women don't do it because they hate women, but because they don't give a **** about women (at least, not the women they rape). They want something, they take it, and they're by-and-large indifferent to how the person they "take" it from feels.

This is why the "rape isn't about sex, rape is about violence" analysis falls short. It's not true - not from the point of view of many rapists - and it denies the true horror of the situation. Many rapists don't rape because they hate and want to hurt women; it's not that personal. Rapists rape because they want sex; they don't consider the woman's feelings at all...

Now don't get me wrong. There are cases in which rape is simply used as a tool of violence, as a way to dominate or control someone. Homosexual rapes by heterosexual males likely often fall into this category (except in situations when men subsitute for women due to a lack of women), as would ritualistic rapes by serial killers and a large number of wartime rapes. But to argue that the casual rapist isn't raping for sex but for violence, power, and control is rather like saying that the mugger mugs people as an act of violence rather than because he wants their money or that the shoplifter shoplifts purely out of kleptomania or to get revenge on the store, not in order to, you know, get stuff free. Or that the person who murders witnesses isn't doing it to keep them from talking but just for the sake of the violence itself.

This is not to say that rape isn't an act of violence, power, and control, but to say that these are usually tools used to get sex rather than ends in and of themselves.

One argument against this is that sex is so available that no one needs to rape in order to get sex; therefore sex cannot be the motivating factor. Perhaps. But money is available as well, and people still steal. The issue isn't whether or not the rapist can obtain sex elsewhere. The issue is that the rapist's motivation is sex when he wants, with whom he wants, and how he wants. He apparently calculates that he can get a "better deal" by taking what he wants than through other means. Perhpas this calculation is wrong - to continue an analogy, lots of criminals probably make less through robbery than they could through honest work - but this doesn't change the fact of the motivation.

So why do we hear that rape is about power and violence?

Two reasons:

The most obvious is that we tend to look through the eyes of the victim, for whom the violence and the loss of control to the rapist is the major event. The victims are usually bothered by the violation, not by the fact that they had sex. So we tend to project the consequences of the rape and the victim's attitudes onto the perpetrator: the violence is what affected her, so that must have been his goal.

The second reason is more controversial, and is something htat I more or less have thought up myself. To explain my hypothesis is really the point of this whole piece:

The more casually a society takes sex, the less of an impact the act of rape has in terms of sex. Therefore, in order to have rape be a serious crime, one has to redefine it away from sex.

Of course, one might argue that they didn't use to take rape seriously at all. I think it's not so much that as that people were in denial over it, suggesting that the woman either was lying or that for some other reason rape had not occurred. And it must also be pointed out that in the less humane societies of old, people were brutal enough that rape did not always seem so terrible in comparison to other things that people did to one another. In a society where pickpockets were hung publicly, the violence was casual enough that however seriously rape was taken, it wouldn't necessarily carry the same weight it does in our comfy modern times.

In any case, though, with sex being a privae topic and officially relegated to marriage and whatnot, the idea of forcing someone to have sex carried with it the idea of a pretty intense violation. Someone was being forced to go through a very private and intimate experience. But if sex is no more intimate than shaking hands, then rape is no more serious than grabbing someone's hand without their permission (or holding onto it, as the case may be).

Which leads in to the reason why we keep hearing that rape is not about sex. It is philosophically untenable to keep pushing the boundaries of the sexual revolution without making rape seem less and less violative by comparison, as the act which is coerced in rape becomes less and less private, personal, and valued in society. So the only way to retain the sense of horror at rape is to alter the rationale for rape being bad; that the goal is total violation, so that the violence becomes the issue; rather than the horror coming from the intimacy of the act which was forced upon the victim, which is the old rationale.

Thoughts?

That is all

 

[5stringJeff]

No - I doubt she's right at all.

I agree with this:

 

[dmp]

If these scumbags are sane, how come they can't control their urges?If they are insane then they should be sectioned before they defile our children.The death penalty should apply to these animals.They deserve nothing more than our deepest contempt.Hang the filthy bastards.I am sick to death of opening the newspaper or switching the tv on to be gtreeted by more cases of the utmost depravity perpetrated against the most vulnerable in our society, usually by repeat offenders who have just been released from a 5 minute jail sentence for rape or child abuse.Hang the bastards.And while I am on the subject, fuck all those apologists who like to speak for these fucking animals.

I think all criminals have problems controlling urges. In fact, I'd say lack of self-discipline is the cause in the VAST majority of crimes.

 

[Nienna]

Good post, Darin. I agree 100%.

 

[dmp]

yeah - that's the link.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Rape has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with violence.

Pedophilia is a psychological issue...and most pedophiles were abused, are incurable and should never be allowed back into society.

Why is it a different crime than assault then? Because it involves sex. You're drastically offbase.

 

[ErikViking]

No - I doubt she's right at all.

I agree with this:

I am sceptical. I don't think sex to a rapist is what it is to normal people. I think violent sex crimes has more to to with humiliation and domination than the pleasure of having sex.

But saying rape is not about sex seems wrong to me to. Even violent crimes with no sex involved can be instigated by sexual drive.

Edit: I totally quoted the wrong text at the top, I am referring to the longer text.

 

[Dan]

I think what Jillian was saying is that for the rapist, it's not completely about sex, it's also about violence, which I agree with. I would like to see a stat on how many assault/rape cases actually end in the guy actually "finishing the job".

I think rapists and especially pedophiles deserve the death penalty. I don't think it needs to be a liberal/conservative issue, but I guess if you needed to, you could say that's my most conservative viewpoint out of anything.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I think what Jillian was saying is that for the rapist, it's not completely about sex, it's also about violence, which I agree with. I would like to see a stat on how many assault/rape cases actually end in the guy actually "finishing the job".

I think rapists and especially pedophiles deserve the death penalty. I don't think it needs to be a liberal/conservative issue, but I guess if you needed to, you could say that's my most conservative viewpoint out of anything.

BUt it is partially about sex. So saying it has nothig to do with sex is assinine.

 

[ErikViking]

I think rapists and especially pedophiles deserve the death penalty. I don't think it needs to be a liberal/conservative issue, but I guess if you needed to, you could say that's my most conservative viewpoint out of anything.

This is of topic but sort of connected.

Toughe one this. I think most people have the same view of those crimes. About as bad as it gets. But if you kill convicted rapists alot of inocent men will die a humiliating death in total discrace. Every now and then men are sent to jail by a woman for some other reason than the rape he stands accused for.

I think there is a problem here. Rape crimes rarley have eye witnesess so it often comes down to ones word against anothers. It iseems almost arbitrary sometimes who gets convicted and who is not, doesn't it? Also women seems to suffer alot in theese cases because of the miscreditation the defence usually uses as a tactic. Delicat stuff.

 

[Annie]

Here's a link that matches up:

http://glaivester.blogspot.com/2006/03/rape-is-about-sex-duh.html

 

[ErikViking]

Most rapists get off scot free without ever going to court, and the majority of those that do get to court are found not guilty, at least here in England because we rely on more than just the say so of the alledged victim.

I think it is about the same as in Sweden then. And alot of rapes doen't ever get filed due to shame too. (That has begin to shift a little a think - no facts).

Some womens organisation would like to have men sentenced based on the word of the woman, but that is also very dangerous and totally unlike any existing legislation.

 

[Diuretic]

Whenever you have found yourself going through periods of celibacy because of the lack of a willing partner do you go out and rape someone or molest a child?No, neither do I, so where the fucking hell do all these fucking rapists and paedophiles come from?Why can't they control themselves as we can?

Every act of rape is different from every other act of rape. The popular media characterises rape where it shouldn't but continues to do so. In the popular media and possibly in the public mind, someone raped by a stranger is more of a real victim than someone who has been subjected to what is popularly called "date rape." It's not purely about sex and it's not purely about violence, both are interwined. The consensual act of sex involves approach and consent. The act of rape involves approach and forced submission. That's where the violence comes into play. If you check the criminal history of many rapists you'll find they started out as flashers, convicted of indecent exposure (males that is). What kind of man exposes himself in public to a female - a man who is seriously challenged by the idea of a normal approach to sex and is possibly incapable of developing a relationship with a woman in which sex plays a normal part. This is an indicator of the mentality. The rapist strikes out against the object of his fear. He uses force to obtain sex to reassure himself, paradoxically, that he is a man after all.

Paedophiles are a completely different proposition. Like the rapist they're unable to form a relationship with an adult. Children are easy to manipulate and the powerless paedophile goes for them. Jillian's right in that the victim becomes the victimiser, all too frequently. The issue of homosexuality has been wrongly thrown into this mix. Homosexual males are able to have a mature adult relationship, albeit with another male, they tend not to have the sort of stunted emotional growth of the paedophile. There is another type of paedophile who is extremely dangerous. This is the type which believes that it is doing the child a favour and - strangely enough - condemnds society for condemning paedophiles.

We can't treat paedophiles, we don't know how to. They have to go to prison for life until we know what really makes them tick.