CBS: Administration Plan to Undermine Gun Law

[PoliticalChic]

1. "Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

2. Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.

3. In Fast and Furious, ATF secretly encouraged gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels to go after the "big fish."

4. ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3".

5. On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

6. Several gun dealers who cooperated with ATF told CBS News and Congressional investigators they only went through with suspicious sales because ATF asked them to.
Sometimes it was against the gun dealer's own best judgment.

7. Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, is investigating Fast and Furious, as well as the alleged use of the case to advance gun regulations. "There's plenty of evidence showing that this administration planned to use the tragedies of Fast and Furious as rationale to further their goals of a long gun reporting requirement. But, we've learned from our investigation that reporting multiple long gun sales would do nothing to stop the flow of firearms to known straw purchasers because many Federal Firearms Dealers are already voluntarily reporting suspicious transactions. It's pretty clear that the problem isn't lack of burdensome reporting requirements."

8. On July 12, 2011, Sen. Grassley and Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., wrote Attorney General Eric Holder, whose Justice Department oversees ATF. They asked Holder whether officials in his agency discussed how "Fast and Furious could be used to justify additional regulatory authorities." So far, they have not received a response. CBS News asked the Justice Department for comment and context on ATF emails about Fast and Furious and Demand Letter 3, but officials declined to speak with us."
Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

So...not satisfied with manipulating the court system to get what they cannot convince the American people to agree to, the Left now has given new meaning to "agent provocateur."

How much of this 'Hope and Change' can the nation take?

 

[TheDecepticon]

Didn't this start under the Bush adminstration?

The Associated Press is reporting on a second Bush administration investigation that involved so-called "gun walking" of weapons to Mexico, the same tactic for which the Obama administration is facing scrutiny from the Justice Department and Congress.

E-mails pertaining to a 2007 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operation out of Phoenix show that agents allowed illegal shipments of guns across the border into Mexico in a failed effort to identify higher-ups in smuggling networks. Earlier this month, the bureau's new director, B. Todd Jones, acknowledged ATF agents launched a similar operation in a 2006 called "Operation Wide Receiver.''
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/2nd-probe-surfac es-of-bush-era-gun-trafficking-to-mexico-/1


So, any bets on that the same brilliant brain trust that launched Operation Wide Receiver is also responsible for Fast and Furious?


At the time, under the Bush administration Department of Justice (DOJ), no arrests or indictments were made. After President Barack Obama took office in 2009, the DOJ reviewed Wide Receiver and found that guns had been allowed into the hands of suspected gun traffickers. Indictments began in 2010, over three years after Wide Receiver concluded. As of October 4, 2011, nine people had been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms; two of them had pled guilty.[15]

Another, smaller probe occurred in 2007 under the same ATF Phoenix field division. It began when the ATF identified Mexican suspects who bought weapons from a Phoenix gun shop over a span of several months. The probe ultimately involved over 200 guns, a dozen of which were lost in Mexico. On September 27, 2007, ATF agents saw the original suspects buying weapons at the same store and followed them toward the Mexican border. The ATF informed the Mexican government when the suspects successfully crossed the border, but Mexican law enforcement were unable to track them.[2][20]

Less than two weeks later, on October 6, William Newell, then ATF's special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division, shut down the operation at the behest of William Hoover, ATF's assistant director for the office of field operations.[21] No charges were filed. Newell, who was special agent in charge from June 2006 to May 2011, would later play a major role in Operation Fast and Furious.
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.


If you CONZ weren't so BLIND TO INCOMPETENCE, you would have caught this and Fast and Furious would never have been allowed to happen.
But just like the Wall Street Crash, you CONZ aren't really cut out for being responsible adults, are you?

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

This gets more disturbing by the moment. Chicago thug politics on display which cost the life of an American. I hope Holder is held accountable for that life.

 

[TheDecepticon]

This gets more disturbing by the moment. Chicago thug politics on display which cost the life of an American. I hope Holder is held accountable for that life.

Like you hope Cheney and Bush are responsible for the 100,000 innocent Iraqi civilians and 4000+ US troops that were KILLED based on a lie?

Or don't you believe in logical consistency?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Didn't this start under the Bush adminstration?

The Associated Press is reporting on a second Bush administration investigation that involved so-called "gun walking" of weapons to Mexico, the same tactic for which the Obama administration is facing scrutiny from the Justice Department and Congress.

E-mails pertaining to a 2007 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operation out of Phoenix show that agents allowed illegal shipments of guns across the border into Mexico in a failed effort to identify higher-ups in smuggling networks. Earlier this month, the bureau's new director, B. Todd Jones, acknowledged ATF agents launched a similar operation in a 2006 called "Operation Wide Receiver.''
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/2nd-probe-surfac es-of-bush-era-gun-trafficking-to-mexico-/1


So, any bets on that the same brilliant brain trust that launched Operation Wide Receiver is also responsible for Fast and Furious?


At the time, under the Bush administration Department of Justice (DOJ), no arrests or indictments were made. After President Barack Obama took office in 2009, the DOJ reviewed Wide Receiver and found that guns had been allowed into the hands of suspected gun traffickers. Indictments began in 2010, over three years after Wide Receiver concluded. As of October 4, 2011, nine people had been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms; two of them had pled guilty.[15]

Another, smaller probe occurred in 2007 under the same ATF Phoenix field division. It began when the ATF identified Mexican suspects who bought weapons from a Phoenix gun shop over a span of several months. The probe ultimately involved over 200 guns, a dozen of which were lost in Mexico. On September 27, 2007, ATF agents saw the original suspects buying weapons at the same store and followed them toward the Mexican border. The ATF informed the Mexican government when the suspects successfully crossed the border, but Mexican law enforcement were unable to track them.[2][20]

Less than two weeks later, on October 6, William Newell, then ATF's special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division, shut down the operation at the behest of William Hoover, ATF's assistant director for the office of field operations.[21] No charges were filed. Newell, who was special agent in charge from June 2006 to May 2011, would later play a major role in Operation Fast and Furious.
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.


If you CONZ weren't so BLIND TO INCOMPETENCE, you would have caught this and Fast and Furious would never have been allowed to happen.
But just like the Wall Street Crash, you CONZ aren't really cut out for being responsible adults, are you?

Let's see if I can enlighten you...a possibility made miniscule due to your rabid hatred of the truth....

1. "It turns out, however, that Fast and Furious was not the first anti-smuggling case in which ATF agents used such a technique. Firearms were allowed into Mexico during two earlier operations, including a 2006-07 Tucson case known as Operation Wide Receiver. Those investigations were carried out quietly during the George W. Bush administration, without public controversy.

In Fast and Furious, an agent named John Dodson recognized early on that allowing guns to travel south could lead to bloodshed and scandal. What made the strategy especially dubious was the lack of a plan to follow the weapons. Agents used wiretaps and once installed a tracking device in the stock of a gun. But, mostly, firearms simply disappeared. And Mexican authorities, who were pleading with the U.S. government to prevent the exportation of assault rifles, had no idea."
ATF gun probe: Behind the fall of Operation Fast and Furious

a. A careful reading of same will explain that both administrations seem to have had the same objective...to prevent or curtail the use of 'straw gun sales' that resulted in guns winding up in the hads of the cartels.

But....they were very different is several important ways:

b. "Wide Receiver’s notion of tracing was night-and-day different from the tracing involved in the reckless gun-walking approach employed by Fast & Furious. Obviously, however, Democrats hope that if they get enough help from their friends in the media, the public will miss the distinction....some crucial distinctions between to two ATF operations. Wide Receiver actually involved not gun-walking but controlled delivery. Unlike gun-walking, which seems (for good reason) to have been unheard of until Fast & Furious, controlled delivery is a very common law enforcement tactic....Fast & Furious involved uncontrolled deliveries — of thousands of weapons. It was an utterly heedless program in which the feds allowed these guns to be sold to straw purchasers — often leaning on reluctant gun dealers to make the sales."
Fast & Furious Was . . . Bush’s Fault - By Andrew C. McCarthy - The Corner - National Review Online


2. For some reason, the Bush administration project had better restrictions and fail-safe considerations...and stopped the plan when guns continued to get through.

a. Was that because the ATF under Bush was smarter?

b. Actually...in the OP you learn that the real reason was that the Obama administration plan was designed to actually allow functioning guns to get to the drug cartels.
Get it?
The plan did a poor job of tracking the guns because it was designed to do just that!!!

Why?

Because the Obama-Holder D o J wanted to be able to point to the cartel-owned guns as a reason to blunt the recent conservative Supreme Court 2nd amendment decisons.

3. Now that CBS (will wonders never cease?) revealed the emails that indicate this, Obama-apologists, that would be you, pretend not to understand this....

...Somehow, when it indicts the Leftists, you guys can never seem to connect the dots.

So, let's review:
a. While the Bush project controlled the gun movement, the Obama-Holder plan allowed the guns to 'walk.'

b. In what seemed to be the usual Obama-incompetence, there was actually an ulterior, and sinister, motive: to undermine by surreptitious means what the Leftists saw the Supreme Court validate, the rights of Americans under the Constitution.


On the other hand, I do have a certain amount of sympathy for the Left when it has to rely on someone with your limited ability to defend it....

 

[Wiseacre]

So we have an idiotic concept that was done purely for political reasons, either with no thought whatsoever to the damage those guns could do on either side of the border. A flawed program which was botched and resulted in the death of a US border agent. And we also have a coverup, complete with lies from Holder on down. Whistleblowers were punished, and the higher ups were promoted.

Somebody should go to jail for this.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

So we have an idiotic concept that was done purely for political reasons, either with no thought whatsoever to the damage those guns could do on either side of the border. A flawed program which was botched and resulted in the death of a US border agent. And we also have a coverup, complete with lies from Holder on down. Whistleblowers were punished, and the higher ups were promoted.

Somebody should go to jail for this.

Or at the very least get fired/resign.

 

[paulitician]

This is pretty awful. Holder and his cronies have to go. I would even support having him arrested for murder.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

This is pretty awful. Holder and his cronies have to go. I would even support having him arrested for murder.

An accessory to murder maybe....but murder is going too far....then again blago got 14 years for being a corrupt douchebag

 

[paulitician]

This is pretty awful. Holder and his cronies have to go. I would even support having him arrested for murder.

An accessory to murder maybe....but murder is going too far....then again blago got 14 years for being a corrupt douchebag

Brian Terry didn't have to die. He died because of Eric Holder's corruption & incompetence. I would have no problem seeing Eric Holder in an orange jumpsuit.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

This is pretty awful. Holder and his cronies have to go. I would even support having him arrested for murder.

An accessory to murder maybe....but murder is going too far....then again blago got 14 years for being a corrupt douchebag

Brian Terry didn't have to die. He died because of Eric Holder's corruption & incompetence. I would have no problem seeing Eric Holder in an orange jumpsuit.

I wouldn't have a problem either...its just typically, under the law, if I give you my gun and you kill someone with it I am charged with accessory to murder but not murder. That is where my post came from.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Didn't this start under the Bush adminstration?

The Associated Press is reporting on a second Bush administration investigation that involved so-called "gun walking" of weapons to Mexico, the same tactic for which the Obama administration is facing scrutiny from the Justice Department and Congress.

E-mails pertaining to a 2007 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operation out of Phoenix show that agents allowed illegal shipments of guns across the border into Mexico in a failed effort to identify higher-ups in smuggling networks. Earlier this month, the bureau's new director, B. Todd Jones, acknowledged ATF agents launched a similar operation in a 2006 called "Operation Wide Receiver.''
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/2nd-probe-surfac es-of-bush-era-gun-trafficking-to-mexico-/1


So, any bets on that the same brilliant brain trust that launched Operation Wide Receiver is also responsible for Fast and Furious?


At the time, under the Bush administration Department of Justice (DOJ), no arrests or indictments were made. After President Barack Obama took office in 2009, the DOJ reviewed Wide Receiver and found that guns had been allowed into the hands of suspected gun traffickers. Indictments began in 2010, over three years after Wide Receiver concluded. As of October 4, 2011, nine people had been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms; two of them had pled guilty.[15]

Another, smaller probe occurred in 2007 under the same ATF Phoenix field division. It began when the ATF identified Mexican suspects who bought weapons from a Phoenix gun shop over a span of several months. The probe ultimately involved over 200 guns, a dozen of which were lost in Mexico. On September 27, 2007, ATF agents saw the original suspects buying weapons at the same store and followed them toward the Mexican border. The ATF informed the Mexican government when the suspects successfully crossed the border, but Mexican law enforcement were unable to track them.[2][20]

Less than two weeks later, on October 6, William Newell, then ATF's special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division, shut down the operation at the behest of William Hoover, ATF's assistant director for the office of field operations.[21] No charges were filed. Newell, who was special agent in charge from June 2006 to May 2011, would later play a major role in Operation Fast and Furious.
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.


If you CONZ weren't so BLIND TO INCOMPETENCE, you would have caught this and Fast and Furious would never have been allowed to happen.
But just like the Wall Street Crash, you CONZ aren't really cut out for being responsible adults, are you?

The Daily Caller has reported extensively on what Illinois Republican Rep. Joe Walsh has called Attorney General Eric Holder’s “undercurrent” of using Fast and Furious to promote gun control. Walsh was among the first members of Congress to call for Holder’s resignation. There are now 52 House members, two senators, four presidential candidates and two sitting governors in that camp.

Read more: Fast and Furious | Gun-Control Agenda | ATF Officials | The Daily Caller

 

[Trajan]

Didn't this start under the Bush adminstration?

The Associated Press is reporting on a second Bush administration investigation that involved so-called "gun walking" of weapons to Mexico, the same tactic for which the Obama administration is facing scrutiny from the Justice Department and Congress.

E-mails pertaining to a 2007 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operation out of Phoenix show that agents allowed illegal shipments of guns across the border into Mexico in a failed effort to identify higher-ups in smuggling networks. Earlier this month, the bureau's new director, B. Todd Jones, acknowledged ATF agents launched a similar operation in a 2006 called "Operation Wide Receiver.''
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/2nd-probe-surfac es-of-bush-era-gun-trafficking-to-mexico-/1


So, any bets on that the same brilliant brain trust that launched Operation Wide Receiver is also responsible for Fast and Furious?


At the time, under the Bush administration Department of Justice (DOJ), no arrests or indictments were made. After President Barack Obama took office in 2009, the DOJ reviewed Wide Receiver and found that guns had been allowed into the hands of suspected gun traffickers. Indictments began in 2010, over three years after Wide Receiver concluded. As of October 4, 2011, nine people had been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms; two of them had pled guilty.[15]

Another, smaller probe occurred in 2007 under the same ATF Phoenix field division. It began when the ATF identified Mexican suspects who bought weapons from a Phoenix gun shop over a span of several months. The probe ultimately involved over 200 guns, a dozen of which were lost in Mexico. On September 27, 2007, ATF agents saw the original suspects buying weapons at the same store and followed them toward the Mexican border. The ATF informed the Mexican government when the suspects successfully crossed the border, but Mexican law enforcement were unable to track them.[2][20]

Less than two weeks later, on October 6, William Newell, then ATF's special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division, shut down the operation at the behest of William Hoover, ATF's assistant director for the office of field operations.[21] No charges were filed. Newell, who was special agent in charge from June 2006 to May 2011, would later play a major role in Operation Fast and Furious.
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.


If you CONZ weren't so BLIND TO INCOMPETENCE, you would have caught this and Fast and Furious would never have been allowed to happen.
But just like the Wall Street Crash, you CONZ aren't really cut out for being responsible adults, are you?

sorry that was another Op. nice try though, well not really.

when you can show the bush doj letting guns walk, free of surveillance et al, killing agents, post it, when you can show that they had a political agenda to go along ala using it for a 2nd amend. beat down, again, post it, when you can show a DOJ deputy lieing to a Congressional comm., please post it.

blaming anyone now, from the BUsh admin. for what went down under the obama DOJ is weak, you guys had congress, thats were investigations into inter gov. malfeasance starts, you know?

why didn't YOU jump on, well whatever it is you think happened or are trying to use as a poor excuse for behavior thus uncovered now?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Didn't this start under the Bush adminstration?

The Associated Press is reporting on a second Bush administration investigation that involved so-called "gun walking" of weapons to Mexico, the same tactic for which the Obama administration is facing scrutiny from the Justice Department and Congress.

E-mails pertaining to a 2007 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operation out of Phoenix show that agents allowed illegal shipments of guns across the border into Mexico in a failed effort to identify higher-ups in smuggling networks. Earlier this month, the bureau's new director, B. Todd Jones, acknowledged ATF agents launched a similar operation in a 2006 called "Operation Wide Receiver.''
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/2nd-probe-surfac es-of-bush-era-gun-trafficking-to-mexico-/1


So, any bets on that the same brilliant brain trust that launched Operation Wide Receiver is also responsible for Fast and Furious?


At the time, under the Bush administration Department of Justice (DOJ), no arrests or indictments were made. After President Barack Obama took office in 2009, the DOJ reviewed Wide Receiver and found that guns had been allowed into the hands of suspected gun traffickers. Indictments began in 2010, over three years after Wide Receiver concluded. As of October 4, 2011, nine people had been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms; two of them had pled guilty.[15]

Another, smaller probe occurred in 2007 under the same ATF Phoenix field division. It began when the ATF identified Mexican suspects who bought weapons from a Phoenix gun shop over a span of several months. The probe ultimately involved over 200 guns, a dozen of which were lost in Mexico. On September 27, 2007, ATF agents saw the original suspects buying weapons at the same store and followed them toward the Mexican border. The ATF informed the Mexican government when the suspects successfully crossed the border, but Mexican law enforcement were unable to track them.[2][20]

Less than two weeks later, on October 6, William Newell, then ATF's special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division, shut down the operation at the behest of William Hoover, ATF's assistant director for the office of field operations.[21] No charges were filed. Newell, who was special agent in charge from June 2006 to May 2011, would later play a major role in Operation Fast and Furious.
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.


If you CONZ weren't so BLIND TO INCOMPETENCE, you would have caught this and Fast and Furious would never have been allowed to happen.
But just like the Wall Street Crash, you CONZ aren't really cut out for being responsible adults, are you?

No, it did not start under Bush. Everyone that has done this in the past tracked the guns that were sold and alerted the Mexican authorities so they could arrest the people that received them. The Obama administration preferred to score political points, and actually ordered licensed dealers to facilitate sales to score political points.

Nice try at blaming Bush though.

 

[whitehall]

You almost gotta laugh when Barry's A.G. says "so-what" when he authorized 2,000 illegal weapons to be shipped to Mexico. Now they want to get around the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution.

 

[BOBO]

...for Ron Paul is on the way!!! Besides the five federal agencies that he has scheduled for termination...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxtT2SdZ8ZU]BIG DOG - New Ron Paul Ad - YouTube[/ame]

...the EPA & "BATF" personnel are scheduled for employment that more "fits their competence level."

1. "Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

2. Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.

3. In Fast and Furious, ATF secretly encouraged gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels to go after the "big fish."

4. ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3".

5. On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

6. Several gun dealers who cooperated with ATF told CBS News and Congressional investigators they only went through with suspicious sales because ATF asked them to.
Sometimes it was against the gun dealer's own best judgment.

7. Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, is investigating Fast and Furious, as well as the alleged use of the case to advance gun regulations. "There's plenty of evidence showing that this administration planned to use the tragedies of Fast and Furious as rationale to further their goals of a long gun reporting requirement. But, we've learned from our investigation that reporting multiple long gun sales would do nothing to stop the flow of firearms to known straw purchasers because many Federal Firearms Dealers are already voluntarily reporting suspicious transactions. It's pretty clear that the problem isn't lack of burdensome reporting requirements."

8. On July 12, 2011, Sen. Grassley and Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., wrote Attorney General Eric Holder, whose Justice Department oversees ATF. They asked Holder whether officials in his agency discussed how "Fast and Furious could be used to justify additional regulatory authorities." So far, they have not received a response. CBS News asked the Justice Department for comment and context on ATF emails about Fast and Furious and Demand Letter 3, but officials declined to speak with us."
Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

So...not satisfied with manipulating the court system to get what they cannot convince the American people to agree to, the Left now has given new meaning to "agent provocateur."

How much of this 'Hope and Change' can the nation take?

 

[9thIDdoc]

Like you hope Cheney and Bush are responsible for the 100,000 innocent Iraqi civilians and 4000+ US troops that were KILLED based on a lie?

Which happened nowhere except in your own fevored imagination.