CBO Scoring Must Be New New Math

Number one cause of bankruptcy - medical bills.

Number one cause of foreclosure - medical bills.

Emergency room, single visit - $1,000 or $1,500 if you are between 45 and 65 - paid for by taxpayers.


You are posting misinformation. Medical bills are not the biggest cause of bankruptcy.

FINDINGS
All Debtors (N = 5,203):

54 percent listed no medical debt.

Medical debt accounted for 5.5 percent of the total general unsecured debt.

90.1 percent reported medical debts less than $5,000.

1 percent of cases accounted for 36.5 percent of medical debt.

Less than 10 percent of all cases represent 80 percent of all reported medical debt.
Cases Reporting Medical Debts (N = 2,391):

Among the debtors reporting medical debt, the average medical debt was $4,978 per case.

78.4 percent reported medical debts below $5,000 (average of $1,212 for this group).

21.6 percent reported 80.9 percent of the total medical debt.

Medical debts accounted for 13.0 percent of the total general unsecured debt for those reporting medical debt.

A sample of 5,000 cases between 2000 and 2002? That's it? Actally, things have changed quite a bit in the last 8 or 10 years.

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

Study Links Medical Costs and Personal Bankruptcy - BusinessWeek

Medical problems caused 62% of all personal bankruptcies filed in the U.S. in 2007, according to a study by Harvard researchers. And in a finding that surprised even the researchers, 78% of those filers had medical insurance at the start of their illness, including 60.3% who had private coverage, not Medicare or Medicaid.

Medically related bankruptcies have been rising steadily for decades. In 1981, only 8% of families filing for bankruptcy cited a serious medical problem as the reason, while a 2001 study of bankruptcies in five states by the same researchers found that illness or medical bills contributed to 50% of all filings.

Bankruptcy and Medical Debt

The medical debt causing these bankruptcies isn't overwhelming in many circumstances. Statistics available in 2003 are as follows: about 20% of bankruptcy filings involve a medical debt of less than $1,000; about 40% involve a medical debt of less than $5,000; and 13% of bankruptcy filings involve a medical debt of over $10,000. One would think these people could make some sort of payment arrangements to pay off the debt rather than file bankruptcy.

Perhaps many file bankruptcy for the simple reason that the medical collection industry is so inflexible and will not work out reasonable payment plans for those who can not pay the debt off quickly. Instead, hospitals, doctors, and medical collection agencies rush to the courthouse to file small claim lawsuits (those less than $5,000).

#1 Cause of Foreclosure in the US Attributable to Healthcare Costs | Bill's Box

Half of all respondents (49%) indicated that their foreclosure was caused in part by a medical problem, including illness or injuries (32%), unmanageable medical bills (23%), lost work due to a medical problem (27%), or caring for sick family members (14%). We also examined objective indicia of medical disruptions in the previous two years, including those respondents paying more than $2,000 of medical bills out of pocket (37%), those losing two or more weeks of work because of injury or illness (30%), those currently disabled and unable to work (8%), and those who used their home equity to pay medical bills (13%). Altogether, seven in ten respondents (69%) reported at least one of these factors.

http://www.pnhp.org/new_bankruptcy_study/Bankruptcy-2009.pdf

RESULTS: Using a conservative definition, 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these
medical debtors had medical debts over $5000, or 10% of pretax family income. The rest met criteria for
medical bankruptcy because they had lost significant income due to illness or mortgaged a home to pay medical
bills. Most medical debtors were well educated, owned homes, and had middle-class occupations. Three
quarters had health insurance. Using identical definitions in 2001 and 2007, the share of bankruptcies attributable
to medical problems rose by 49.6%. In logistic regression analysis controlling for demographic factors,
the odds that a bankruptcy had a medical cause was 2.38-fold higher in 2007 than in 2001.
CONCLUSIONS: Illness and medical bills contribute to a large and increasing share of US bankruptcies.
 
ok, this was 2005 talking about a study that Harvard did on bankruptcy causes....earlier in the decade so it is a bit old...

We need to figure out why different groups are reporting different things on the topic, or we can each continue to believe our own charts and articles and fight and ignore the others .... :)

Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001, according to a study published by the journal Health Affairs.

The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually -- counting debtors and their dependents, including about 700,000 children.

Surprisingly, most of those bankrupted by illness had health insurance. More than three-quarters were insured at the start of the bankrupting illness. However, 38 percent had lost coverage at least temporarily by the time they filed for bankruptcy.

Most of the medical bankruptcy filers were middle class; 56 percent owned a home and the same number had attended college. In many cases, illness forced breadwinners to take time off from work -- losing income and job-based health insurance precisely when families needed it most.

Families in bankruptcy suffered many privations -- 30 percent had a utility cut off and 61 percent went without needed medical care.

Read more: Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds

"Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001"

That's .....****using calculator****........729,000 personal bankruptcies

Pretty paltry in a country of 300,000,000.....so let's thry to inflate the number...

"The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually --
counting debtors"

so, we're counting "debtors?" The guy at the bank? AWWWW.......so sad:confused:


"and their dependents, including about 700,000 children."

finally, now we have something real for our hearts to bleed over: The CHILDREN!!!

Why, Care4all, do you suppose this is relevant? Why didn't your quote simply omit this, after all, children = dependends, right?

If you are one of those 729,000, it can be pretty bad.
 
ok, this was 2005 talking about a study that Harvard did on bankruptcy causes....earlier in the decade so it is a bit old...

We need to figure out why different groups are reporting different things on the topic, or we can each continue to believe our own charts and articles and fight and ignore the others .... :)

"Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001"

That's .....****using calculator****........729,000 personal bankruptcies

Pretty paltry in a country of 300,000,000.....so let's thry to inflate the number...

"The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually --
counting debtors"

so, we're counting "debtors?" The guy at the bank? AWWWW.......so sad:confused:


"and their dependents, including about 700,000 children."

finally, now we have something real for our hearts to bleed over: The CHILDREN!!!

Why, Care4all, do you suppose this is relevant? Why didn't your quote simply omit this, after all, children = dependends, right?

If you are one of those 729,000, it can be pretty bad.

Sure. Of course. Much in life is pretty bad.

Still, it astonishes me that the best way to help 700,000 child dependents is to have NATIONALIZED health care? Do we not have Medicare? Medicaid? Welfare?

I also have kids. I want them to benefit from my earnings. When I pay taxes, this represents MY money I cannot use to benefit MY kids, and the nearly

299,300,000 Americans that DID NOT Go Bankrupt due to Illness and Medical Expenses
 
The CBO Scoring must be based on New New Math - and Nancy Pelosi must be a psychic.

Despite the fact that no score has been released, Pelosi says she loves the number - and one of her flying monkeys, Steny Hoyer, has been touting it as reducing the deficit over the next 10 years.

If the CBO process is truly independent, how is it that Pelosi has any information prior to the score being released? If our laws were applied fairly, Pelosi and Crew would be in the cells next to Bernie Madoff for cooking the books.

Rep. Steny Hoyer of Maryland, the Number 2 House Democrat, said the economy would be stronger in the long run. The bill is estimated to reduce federal deficit by more than $130 billion over its first 10 years — and $1.2 trillion in the second decade, he said. Hoyer called it the biggest deficit reduction bill since the 1990s, when President Bill Clinton put the federal budget on a path to surplus.

Authoritative numbers from the Congressional Budget Office were expected later Thursday, but Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., was already pleased. "We loved their number," said Pelosi, who is privy to the estimates.

"I think the momentum is growing for this bill," said Hoyer. "The more and more people have looked at this bill...a greater number of people are becoming more comfortable."...


House Dems on track for vote on $940B health bill - Yahoo! News


The CBO came out with numbers over medicare in the 1960's--gave a figure--of course medicare passed--& it ended up costing 7 TIMES more than the CBO estimates.

I imagine no matter what figure the CBO comes up with--it will be grossly short of what the cost really will be.
 
☭proletarian☭;2110672 said:
Collecting taxes for 10 years with only 6 years of expenditures is cooking the books.

No, it's gathering the necessary funds for up-front costs.

Kinda like smart people do when they want to buy a new car- they save the upfront costs while making sure they'll have the funds for maintenance, fuel, et al.

Would you buy a car if you had to pay for the 1st 4 years before you could drive it? The HC collecting makes about as much sense. Spin it any way you want, it is completely illogical to ask the american people to pay for something for 10 years and only get 6 years of use.
 
"Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001"

That's .....****using calculator****........729,000 personal bankruptcies

Pretty paltry in a country of 300,000,000.....so let's thry to inflate the number...

"The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually --
counting debtors"

so, we're counting "debtors?" The guy at the bank? AWWWW.......so sad:confused:


"and their dependents, including about 700,000 children."

finally, now we have something real for our hearts to bleed over: The CHILDREN!!!

Why, Care4all, do you suppose this is relevant? Why didn't your quote simply omit this, after all, children = dependends, right?

If you are one of those 729,000, it can be pretty bad.

Sure. Of course. Much in life is pretty bad.

Still, it astonishes me that the best way to help 700,000 child dependents is to have NATIONALIZED health care? Do we not have Medicare? Medicaid? Welfare?

I also have kids. I want them to benefit from my earnings. When I pay taxes, this represents MY money I cannot use to benefit MY kids, and the nearly

299,300,000 Americans that DID NOT Go Bankrupt due to Illness and Medical Expenses

At least not yet.
 
I still don't understand why the right works so hard against average Americans yet have no problem supporting a military is that is bigger than....

country-distribution-2008.png
 
I still don't understand why the right works so hard against average Americans yet have no problem supporting a military is that is bigger than....

RED HERRING ANYONE???

Niether do I understand the volume of spending dedicated to defense....

But I don't use it as an excuse to tax and spend MORE.
 
ok, this was 2005 talking about a study that Harvard did on bankruptcy causes....earlier in the decade so it is a bit old...

We need to figure out why different groups are reporting different things on the topic, or we can each continue to believe our own charts and articles and fight and ignore the others .... :)

Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001, according to a study published by the journal Health Affairs.

The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually -- counting debtors and their dependents, including about 700,000 children.

Surprisingly, most of those bankrupted by illness had health insurance. More than three-quarters were insured at the start of the bankrupting illness. However, 38 percent had lost coverage at least temporarily by the time they filed for bankruptcy.

Most of the medical bankruptcy filers were middle class; 56 percent owned a home and the same number had attended college. In many cases, illness forced breadwinners to take time off from work -- losing income and job-based health insurance precisely when families needed it most.

Families in bankruptcy suffered many privations -- 30 percent had a utility cut off and 61 percent went without needed medical care.

Read more: Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds

"Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001"

That's .....****using calculator****........729,000 personal bankruptcies

Pretty paltry in a country of 300,000,000.....so let's thry to inflate the number...

"The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually --
counting debtors"

so, we're counting "debtors?" The guy at the bank? AWWWW.......so sad:confused:


"and their dependents, including about 700,000 children."

finally, now we have something real for our hearts to bleed over: The CHILDREN!!!

Why, Care4all, do you suppose this is relevant? Why didn't your quote simply omit this, after all, children = dependends, right?

yep, I would take the "banks"/debtors out of the figure, that would reduce the amount of total bankruptcies and that would show an even HIGHER percentage of individuals going through bankruptcy for medical or illness reasons....it would give us a better read....THANKS SO much for pointing that out.....(though for the wrong reason):razz:

As far as "the children", the hubby and I have no children, though we spent a decade ...near two decades trying....I am barren, so those "children" that live in those bankrupt homes has no deep personal tug on my heart dear, other than I do believe they do count....they can't be ignored that they suffer from all of this too....

I do not believe that we should institute a new health care system or program because a few million people that have illnesses and insurance woes leading to bankruptcy....

fixing the dropping of people with illnesses by the insurance companies is important to me because not doing so is like kicking someone in the stomach when they are down and out....it's just plain wrong, and it can lead to many people dying or suffering due to the illness...or just not given the better chance to live through the illness if he were still covered and not dropped or intentionally priced out of the market by the insurance company after he got the illness....

not putting people at risk of going in to bankruptcy is just a sidekick, a perk.

and I am not saying it takes this very big and complicated bill to do such either, but it is something that needed to be addressed imo...I believe the republicans are on board with this as well, so it is something both sides of congress can agree upon.

Care
 
ok, this was 2005 talking about a study that Harvard did on bankruptcy causes....earlier in the decade so it is a bit old...

We need to figure out why different groups are reporting different things on the topic, or we can each continue to believe our own charts and articles and fight and ignore the others .... :)

"Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001"

That's .....****using calculator****........729,000 personal bankruptcies

Pretty paltry in a country of 300,000,000.....so let's thry to inflate the number...

"The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually --
counting debtors"

so, we're counting "debtors?" The guy at the bank? AWWWW.......so sad:confused:


"and their dependents, including about 700,000 children."

finally, now we have something real for our hearts to bleed over: The CHILDREN!!!

Why, Care4all, do you suppose this is relevant? Why didn't your quote simply omit this, after all, children = dependends, right?

yep, I would take the "banks"/debtors out of the figure, that would reduce the amount of total bankruptcies and that would show an even HIGHER percentage of individuals going through bankruptcy for medical or illness reasons....it would give us a better read....THANKS SO much for pointing that out.....(though for the wrong reason):razz:

As far as "the children", the hubby and I have no children, though we spent a decade ...near two decades trying....I am barren, so those "children" that live in those bankrupt homes has no deep personal tug on my heart dear, other than I do believe they do count....they can't be ignored that they suffer from all of this too....

I do not believe that we should institute a new health care system or program because a few million people that have illnesses and insurance woes leading to bankruptcy....

fixing the dropping of people with illnesses by the insurance companies is important to me because not doing so is like kicking someone in the stomach when they are down and out....it's just plain wrong, and it can lead to many people dying or suffering due to the illness...or just not given the better chance to live through the illness if he were still covered and not dropped or intentionally priced out of the market by the insurance company after he got the illness....

not putting people at risk of going in to bankruptcy is just a sidekick, a perk.

and I am not saying it takes this very big and complicated bill to do such either, but it is something that needed to be addressed imo...I believe the republicans are on board with this as well, so it is something both sides of congress can agree upon.

Care

We are in agreement.

But aren't you surprised that something as simple as writing a LAW preventing Insurance Companies from EVER completely dropping customers that have contracted for their services is not only necessary, but difficult to write???

If there's a CONTRACT between me and the Insurance company...I pay them X, and they pay WHATEVER I need as far as healthcare costs, then WTF is the problem?

It seems like we could have a one page boilerplate added to every contract that would satisfy the need to indefinately protect insured individuals!!!!????:confused:
 

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