Cause and Effect and Global Warming

[FactFinder]

What science fiction novel did that come from?

 

[Old Rocks]

I am waiting for scientist to tell us what the earth's optimum temp should be. If we do not have the answer to that, how do we know that the earth is too warm or is headed that way?

Because the poles are melting.

That doesn't answer the question. What is the earth's optimum temperature? That's like saying "because I said so". Try again?

Be an ass and play with semantics. The problem with adrupt climate change has nothing at all to do with optimum temperature. A rapid warming is creating problems with our agriculture that will lead to a situation in which it can no longer sustain the numbers that are presently living on earth. It will lead to sea level rise, and mass migrations that will create problems of tens of millions of refugees crossing borders against the will of people within those borders.

 

[Old Rocks]

While my own opinions is humbly biased, I must say that the common sense participants in this thread have won the day.

The IPCC has been proven time and again - (links already provided previously) to base estimates on statistical conjecture and far too little actual science.

We also know that for the last decade, the earth's temperatures have actually declined a bit, with possible theories ranging from decreased solar activity, to Leroux's theories on regional fluctuations, etc.

The most recent Antarctic study published in Nature was also soundly dissproven - much like the pro-man-made global warming posts in here.

Congratulations to the common sense participants of this forum - it makes for worthy reading to see so many well informed participants.

And to those global warming proponents - I say thank you as well. I welcome your views, as much as I disagree with them, for such views are an important component to the overall dialogue. That being said, if I truly believed there was man-made global warming, I would be the first to call an alarm. I am a father, and if so blessed, will one day be a grandfather, and I spend a good deal of time showing my own children how to be good stewards of the earth. I also teach them to question the information that inundates each of us - and look to the motivations that might reveal the true intent of that information.

The global warming junta has been inflicted by self-interest and outright misinformation for decades now.

A recent poll showed of 20 listed concerns for Americans, it placed dead last. That is appropriate - while the media continues to advocate for its importance, Americans have been tuning it out for a number of years now. And while the interests of the Go Green campaign currently spends millions to ensure the profit making potential of the Cap n Trade scheme is implimented, I feel enough Americans are now willing to call bulls-it on this scam.

For that I am grateful - for myself, and for my children.

I wish your children good luck. They are going to need it. With people like you making decisions for them, they haven't much else going for them.

 

[elvis]

While my own opinions is humbly biased, I must say that the common sense participants in this thread have won the day.

The IPCC has been proven time and again - (links already provided previously) to base estimates on statistical conjecture and far too little actual science.

We also know that for the last decade, the earth's temperatures have actually declined a bit, with possible theories ranging from decreased solar activity, to Leroux's theories on regional fluctuations, etc.

The most recent Antarctic study published in Nature was also soundly dissproven - much like the pro-man-made global warming posts in here.

Congratulations to the common sense participants of this forum - it makes for worthy reading to see so many well informed participants.

And to those global warming proponents - I say thank you as well. I welcome your views, as much as I disagree with them, for such views are an important component to the overall dialogue. That being said, if I truly believed there was man-made global warming, I would be the first to call an alarm. I am a father, and if so blessed, will one day be a grandfather, and I spend a good deal of time showing my own children how to be good stewards of the earth. I also teach them to question the information that inundates each of us - and look to the motivations that might reveal the true intent of that information.

The global warming junta has been inflicted by self-interest and outright misinformation for decades now.

A recent poll showed of 20 listed concerns for Americans, it placed dead last. That is appropriate - while the media continues to advocate for its importance, Americans have been tuning it out for a number of years now. And while the interests of the Go Green campaign currently spends millions to ensure the profit making potential of the Cap n Trade scheme is implimented, I feel enough Americans are now willing to call bulls-it on this scam.

For that I am grateful - for myself, and for my children.

I wish your children good luck. They are going to need it. With people like you making decisions for them, they haven't much else going for them.

If only he were a millwright owned by Al Gore his children would have a chance.

 

[FactFinder]

Because the poles are melting.

That doesn't answer the question. What is the earth's optimum temperature? That's like saying "because I said so". Try again?

Be an ass and play with semantics. The problem with adrupt climate change has nothing at all to do with optimum temperature. A rapid warming is creating problems with our agriculture that will lead to a situation in which it can no longer sustain the numbers that are presently living on earth. It will lead to sea level rise, and mass migrations that will create problems of tens of millions of refugees crossing borders against the will of people within those borders.

Hell give me back that warming. I don't like the solar minimum and all this cold. Judging by the temps in New England today the arctic surely did some more thickening to its heavily recovered ice extent. Brrrrrrrr...

 

[FactFinder]

Still no sunspots.

 

[jeffrockit]

Because the poles are melting.

That doesn't answer the question. What is the earth's optimum temperature? That's like saying "because I said so". Try again?

Be an ass and play with semantics. The problem with adrupt climate change has nothing at all to do with optimum temperature. A rapid warming is creating problems with our agriculture that will lead to a situation in which it can no longer sustain the numbers that are presently living on earth. It will lead to sea level rise, and mass migrations that will create problems of tens of millions of refugees crossing borders against the will of people within those borders.

Again with the name calling. I pay little attention to those that use name calling as a debating skill as you lose any chance of credibility. Message boards are full of cowards who would never have the guts to talk to people in this manner if they were face to face. I call it keyboard courage.

And again the question was not answered. Don't bother responding as I am sure it will be filled with more name calling and swearing.

 

[Chris]

That doesn't answer the question. What is the earth's optimum temperature? That's like saying "because I said so". Try again?

Be an ass and play with semantics. The problem with adrupt climate change has nothing at all to do with optimum temperature. A rapid warming is creating problems with our agriculture that will lead to a situation in which it can no longer sustain the numbers that are presently living on earth. It will lead to sea level rise, and mass migrations that will create problems of tens of millions of refugees crossing borders against the will of people within those borders.

Again with the name calling. I pay little attention to those that use name calling as a debating skill as you lose any chance of credibility. Message boards are full of cowards who would never have the guts to talk to people in this manner if they were face to face. I call it keyboard courage.

And again the question was not answered. Don't bother responding as I am sure it will be filled with more name calling and swearing.

Why don't you answer the question?

 

[FactFinder]

Asking what is the earth's optimum temperature is a very legitimate question. One that warming alarmists avoid like the plague becasue they know that some warming would actually cause the planet to thrive. Plants love CO2. Hunger would likely be wiped out with a bit of warming.

Too bad the earth is now coooling.

 

[Bern80]

Really? OK, post some of these respected scientists peer review published articles falsifying AGW. Natural cycle? Name the cycle and causes.

Been done. You ignored or made non-scientific excuses as to why it didn't count. Conclusion: Posting the most credible of credible peer reviewed research opposing AGW is pointless, because YOU know that A) you don't have the scientific capacity to refute it and B) in light of that will make non-scientific attempts to discredit it.

 

[raceright]

Dr Guy Harrington's Research Pages
Terrestrial environmental changes during the PETM

The Palaeocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM) is a rapid global warming event at ≈ 55.8 Ma that had major impacts upon terrestrial and marine biota. The PETM was probably caused by the massive release of greenhouse gases at similar rates to present and forecast rates of fossil fuel burning. This pulse of global warming entailed c. 8 ºC warming of sea-surface temperatures at high latitudes and an increase of land temperatures by c. 4–6 ºC in warm-temperate, continental North America. This event is well documented from several terrestrial settings but there are very few floral records from within the PETM.


Part of this research is in collaboration with Dr Scott Wing (Smithsonian Institution), Dr Jon Bloch (University of Florida), Dr Francesca Smith (Northwestern), and Doug Boyer (Stony Brook) and investigated remote parts of the Bighorn Basin which yielded fossil mammals, plants and pollen. Early results indicate that massive change occurred to plant communities leading to rapid taxonomic turnover. Plants with contemporaneous tropical distribution are found fleetingly in the Bighorn Basin together with immigrant taxa that mark the Early Eocene in warmer parts of North America, such as the US Gulf Coast. When temperatures cooled after this event, plants that thrived in the Palaeocene of the Bighorn Basin return (there is no extinction) and are joined by a few immigrant taxa that previously were found only on other Holarctic continents. The plant response to this warming varies by region because extinction of ≈20% is noted from the eastern US Gulf Coast.


I have studied other parts of North America including the Palaeocene–Eocene transition on the eastern US Gulf Coast (Mississippi and Alabama) and from North Dakota. Palynological, sedimentological and geochemical changes from North Dakota are being studied with Dr Clay Kelly and Dr Cynthia Stiles (University of Wisconsin, Madison) in order to understand the role of silicate weathering within the PETM. The PETM is present within the Golden Valley Formation which weathers as prominent brightly coloured buttes in west-central North Dakota (see below).

Dr Guy Harrington's Research Pages

Was that 55 PETM anything like my 55 Chevy

 

[jeffrockit]

Be an ass and play with semantics. The problem with adrupt climate change has nothing at all to do with optimum temperature. A rapid warming is creating problems with our agriculture that will lead to a situation in which it can no longer sustain the numbers that are presently living on earth. It will lead to sea level rise, and mass migrations that will create problems of tens of millions of refugees crossing borders against the will of people within those borders.

Again with the name calling. I pay little attention to those that use name calling as a debating skill as you lose any chance of credibility. Message boards are full of cowards who would never have the guts to talk to people in this manner if they were face to face. I call it keyboard courage.

And again the question was not answered. Don't bother responding as I am sure it will be filled with more name calling and swearing.

Why don't you answer the question?

Because no one knows..that's the point. The enviro wackos don't have the answer and yet they keep screaming that the earth is warming. What if the earth is just warming to its optimum temperature. No sense using logic on the warmers as it is a complete waste of time.

Most of the warmers are nothing more than anti capitalist that want to social engineer their way and force corporations to either comply of close down. The ironic thing is that they will be making money doing stupid things like sell carbon offsets.

Unfortunately the POSOTUS buys into that garbage and will bankrupt energy companies that fail to follow his edicts.

Lastly, I was responding to the name caller, so why are you answering for him? I am sure he is a big boy though his vocabulary would prove differently.

 

[elvis]

Really? OK, post some of these respected scientists peer review published articles falsifying AGW. Natural cycle? Name the cycle and causes.

Been done. You ignored or made non-scientific excuses as to why it didn't count. Conclusion: Posting the most credible of credible peer reviewed research opposing AGW is pointless, because YOU know that A) you don't have the scientific capacity to refute it and B) in light of that will make non-scientific attempts to discredit it.

I've been telling the moron that for months.

 

[Chris]

Again with the name calling. I pay little attention to those that use name calling as a debating skill as you lose any chance of credibility. Message boards are full of cowards who would never have the guts to talk to people in this manner if they were face to face. I call it keyboard courage.

And again the question was not answered. Don't bother responding as I am sure it will be filled with more name calling and swearing.

Why don't you answer the question?

Because no one knows..that's the point. The enviro wackos don't have the answer and yet they keep screaming that the earth is warming. What if the earth is just warming to its optimum temperature. No sense using logic on the warmers as it is a complete waste of time.

Most of the warmers are nothing more than anti capitalist that want to social engineer their way and force corporations to either comply of close down. The ironic thing is that they will be making money doing stupid things like sell carbon offsets.

Unfortunately the POSOTUS buys into that garbage and will bankrupt energy companies that fail to follow his edicts.

Lastly, I was responding to the name caller, so why are you answering for him? I am sure he is a big boy though his vocabulary would prove differently.

You watch too much FoxNews.

Of course we know what the earth's best temperature is. The one that keeps the ice in Antarctica and Greenland from melting.

Unfortunately people like you make this a political issue, and it is not. It is a scientific issue and the scientists have spoken loud and clear, as have the melting glaciers and ice caps.

 

[Old Rocks]

Dr Guy Harrington's Research Pages
Terrestrial environmental changes during the PETM

The Palaeocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM) is a rapid global warming event at ≈ 55.8 Ma that had major impacts upon terrestrial and marine biota. The PETM was probably caused by the massive release of greenhouse gases at similar rates to present and forecast rates of fossil fuel burning. This pulse of global warming entailed c. 8 ºC warming of sea-surface temperatures at high latitudes and an increase of land temperatures by c. 4–6 ºC in warm-temperate, continental North America. This event is well documented from several terrestrial settings but there are very few floral records from within the PETM.


Part of this research is in collaboration with Dr Scott Wing (Smithsonian Institution), Dr Jon Bloch (University of Florida), Dr Francesca Smith (Northwestern), and Doug Boyer (Stony Brook) and investigated remote parts of the Bighorn Basin which yielded fossil mammals, plants and pollen. Early results indicate that massive change occurred to plant communities leading to rapid taxonomic turnover. Plants with contemporaneous tropical distribution are found fleetingly in the Bighorn Basin together with immigrant taxa that mark the Early Eocene in warmer parts of North America, such as the US Gulf Coast. When temperatures cooled after this event, plants that thrived in the Palaeocene of the Bighorn Basin return (there is no extinction) and are joined by a few immigrant taxa that previously were found only on other Holarctic continents. The plant response to this warming varies by region because extinction of ≈20% is noted from the eastern US Gulf Coast.


I have studied other parts of North America including the Palaeocene–Eocene transition on the eastern US Gulf Coast (Mississippi and Alabama) and from North Dakota. Palynological, sedimentological and geochemical changes from North Dakota are being studied with Dr Clay Kelly and Dr Cynthia Stiles (University of Wisconsin, Madison) in order to understand the role of silicate weathering within the PETM. The PETM is present within the Golden Valley Formation which weathers as prominent brightly coloured buttes in west-central North Dakota (see below).

Dr Guy Harrington's Research Pages

Was that 55 PETM anything like my 55 Chevy

You do not have to prove your ignorance and idiocy, it is readily apparent.

 

[Old Rocks]

Really? OK, post some of these respected scientists peer review published articles falsifying AGW. Natural cycle? Name the cycle and causes.

Been done. You ignored or made non-scientific excuses as to why it didn't count. Conclusion: Posting the most credible of credible peer reviewed research opposing AGW is pointless, because YOU know that A) you don't have the scientific capacity to refute it and B) in light of that will make non-scientific attempts to discredit it.

Thus far, I have seen one good peer reviewed article stating that CO2 and global warming are not a problem. Unfortunetly, I am not going to spend $34 to read it. Sinatra posted half of the abstract from the article, and I posted the total abstract. But they gave no reason in the abstract for contradicting what the whole of the physics community states concerning the greenhouse properties of CO2.

 

[Old Rocks]

Asking what is the earth's optimum temperature is a very legitimate question. One that warming alarmists avoid like the plague becasue they know that some warming would actually cause the planet to thrive. Plants love CO2. Hunger would likely be wiped out with a bit of warming.

Too bad the earth is now coooling.

Good lord!
USDA Climate Report - Global Warming Impacts on Western U.S. Rangelands/Livestock


Global Warming Impacts on Western U.S. Rangelands/Livestock
U.S.D.A. Assessment



The final draft of a U.S. Department of Agriculture report scheduled for release Tuesday, May 27, finds climate change has negatively impacted western U.S. rangelands and livestock populations and predicts severe losses in the future 1. The full draft is available on line at: http://www.climatescience.gov/Library/sap/sap4-3/default.php

The draft report finds it is "very likely" that climate change and historic land management practices will cause major disruptions to western rangelands and the livestock industry that relies on them. "The evidence... over the past two centuries provide indisputable evidence that warming, altered precipitation patterns, and rising atmospheric CO2 are virtually certain to have profound impacts on the ecology and agricultural utility of rangelands." 2

"Climate changes... could impact the economic viability of livestock production systems worldwide." 3 The report predicts increased heat waves, which will cause major livestock die-offs, and in addition, "economic losses from reduced cattle performance (morbidity) likely exceed those associated with cattle death losses by several-fold

 

[Old Rocks]

Australia's epic drought: The situation is grim

By Kathy Marks in Sydney

Australia's epic drought: The situation is grim - Australasia, World - The Independent
Friday, 20 April 2007
Australia has warned that it will have to switch off the water supply to the continent's food bowl unless heavy rains break an epic drought - heralding what could be the first climate change-driven disaster to strike a developed nation.

Catastrophic Fall in 2009 Global Food Production

Catastrophic Fall in 2009 Global Food Production


by Eric deCarbonnel


Global Research, February 10, 2009
Market Oracle

 

[Sinatra]

Australia's epic drought: The situation is grim

By Kathy Marks in Sydney

Australia's epic drought: The situation is grim - Australasia, World - The Independent
Friday, 20 April 2007
Australia has warned that it will have to switch off the water supply to the continent's food bowl unless heavy rains break an epic drought - heralding what could be the first climate change-driven disaster to strike a developed nation.

Catastrophic Fall in 2009 Global Food Production

Catastrophic Fall in 2009 Global Food Production


by Eric deCarbonnel


Global Research, February 10, 2009
Market Oracle

Australia is fine - it went through another drought cycle just as it has done many times before...

The Australian drought - all over bar the shouting?

And isn't it interesting how a natural Australian drought cycle was repeated over and over again by the mainstream media while the just-as-natural monsoon like conditions received far less attention?

Weather News - Torrential rain a 'mixed blessing' for Australia

 

[raceright]

Australia's epic drought: The situation is grim

By Kathy Marks in Sydney

Australia's epic drought: The situation is grim - Australasia, World - The Independent
Friday, 20 April 2007
Australia has warned that it will have to switch off the water supply to the continent's food bowl unless heavy rains break an epic drought - heralding what could be the first climate change-driven disaster to strike a developed nation.

Catastrophic Fall in 2009 Global Food Production

Catastrophic Fall in 2009 Global Food Production


by Eric deCarbonnel


Global Research, February 10, 2009
Market Oracle

Australia is fine - it went through another drought cycle just as it has done many times before...

The Australian drought - all over bar the shouting?

And isn't it interesting how a natural Australian drought cycle was repeated over and over again by the mainstream media while the just-as-natural monsoon like conditions received far less attention?

Weather News - Torrential rain a 'mixed blessing' for Australia

Na Na Na Its global warming Just ask professor Mcduck he is a highly educated carpenter