Catholics in Denial

[Romeo]

This article does a great job explaining something I've noticed about many Conservative Catholics I've encountered in my many discussions on christian forums.

http://www.fatima.org/news/newsviews/3rdsecret4-5.asp
The same refusal to place the blame where it belongs characterizes the “conservative” Catholic’s approach to the post-conciliar Vatican program of “collaborating” with the very forces of secularism the preconciliar popes condemned. Thus, “conservative” Catholics will decry Ted Turner’s gift of a billion dollars to the godless United Nations, as did Mother Angelica at one of the conservatives’ widely publicized “Call to Holiness” conferences. Yet they never mention that the Vatican, a permanent observer at the U.N., is one of that organization’s staunchest supporters, despite measured “reservations” about particular U.N. policies or activities which it otherwise subscribes to. [For example, the Vatican is a signatory to the deplorable U.N. Convention on the “Rights of the Child”.91] Neither will “conservatives” mention that the Conciliar document Gaudium et spes called precisely for establishment of a world government92, or that in the very midst of the Council Paul VI traveled to New York to pay tribute to the United Nations as “this lofty institution”, and the “last great hope for concord and peace”, declaring: “Let unanimous trust in this institution grow, let its authority increase ...”. Nor will conservatives breathe a word about the fact that Pope John Paul II, a major contributor to Gaudium et spes, expressed the same sentiments as his predecessor in his own address to the U.N. thirty years later. On that occasion the current Pope proclaimed the “esteem of the Apostolic See and of the Catholic Church for this institution” and pronounced the U.N. — worldwide promoter of contraception, abortion and atheistic humanism — “a great instrument for harmonizing and coordinating (!) international life”.93 God forbid.

 

[90K]

Not sure on the answer here. First of all who wrote this? A conservative or liberal, I ask because when religion is brought into the mix it will automatically draw a side. And if these are true comments on the Vatican and the UN then it is political. And lastly what is the point. See I'm in the middle right now about my Protestant roots and my wife's Catholic roots and I may convert to Catholic, but really that isn't the point in my post. I see the deal as political in all arenas. And it is about pointing and saying tit for tat.

 

[Romeo]

Not sure on the answer here. First of all who wrote this? A conservative or liberal, I ask because when religion is brought into the mix it will automatically draw a side. And if these are true comments on the Vatican and the UN then it is political. And lastly what is the point. See I'm in the middle right now about my Protestant roots and my wife's Catholic roots and I may convert to Catholic, but really that isn't the point in my post. I see the deal as political in all arenas. And it is about pointing and saying tit for tat.

To me it's simple. Most organized churches are corrupted by satan. Any church which teaches that the god of jesus christ is the same god as allah is in league with satan. That's Theosophy, not christianity.

 

[90K]

To me it's simple. Most organized churches are corrupted by satan. Any church which teaches that the god of jesus christ is the same god as allah is in league with satan. That's Theosophy, not christianity.[/QUOTE]

Would you consider elaborating more on this? I'm hoping there is a point and not a anti-religion message.

 

[Annie]

To me it's simple. Most organized churches are corrupted by satan. Any church which teaches that the god of jesus christ is the same god as allah is in league with satan. That's Theosophy, not christianity.[/QUOTE]

Would you consider elaborating more on this? I'm hoping there is a point and not a anti-religion message.

Mason, joos, chinese, you name it. There's a reason that you don't get the point, he doesn't have one.

 

[Romeo]

To me it's simple. Most organized churches are corrupted by satan. Any church which teaches that the god of jesus christ is the same god as allah is in league with satan. That's Theosophy, not christianity.[/QUOTE]

Would you consider elaborating more on this? I'm hoping there is a point and not a anti-religion message.

I don't mind at all. I think most mainline churches including cathlics and most protestants, have been corrupted by the ecumenical movement. Im pro religion, but anti false doctrine, ya dig it?

 

[Romeo]

Mason, joos, chinese, you name it. There's a reason that you don't get the point, he doesn't have one.

Yes I do. It's this: I think most mainline churches including cathlics and most protestants, have been corrupted by the ecumenical movement.

 

[90K]

Are you saying rules that the church uses or politics that bind it true meaning? if that is the case I see that this can and will cause issues. Why? because man has his fingers in it. Look at Paul and his letters to the church of Corinth. It had to be faith to change those folks over to God/Jesus abiding people. See I'm about the law because I know I'm weak and need structure, what I don't need is some movement that isn't inline with the Bible or scriptures. That is why we have choices. I see a lot of groups get down on the Catholics because of the politics and possibly the do as I say not as I do bit. I won't truly know all of it's ways for a while, but I'm willing to give it a go and if I find peace then I'll stay. Again I'll say as long as man has his hand in anything we'll continue to mess it up. And that goes for all those religious sects here and abroad.

 

[Romeo]

Are you saying rules that the church uses or politics that bind it true meaning? if that is the case I see that this can and will cause issues. Why? because man has his fingers in it. Look at Paul and his letters to the church of Corinth. It had to be faith to change those folks over to God/Jesus abiding people. See I'm about the law because I know I'm weak and need structure, what I don't need is some movement that isn't inline with the Bible or scriptures. That is why we have choices. I see a lot of groups get down on the Catholics because of the politics and possibly the do as I say not as I do bit. I won't truly know all of it's ways for a while, but I'm willing to give it a go and if I find peace then I'll stay. Again I'll say as long as man has his hand in anything we'll continue to mess it up. And that goes for all those religious sects here and abroad.

Read up on Vatican II and the surrounding arguments and resulting factions.

There is a press on humanity now to "unite for unity's sake". This is the antichrist commandment, hidden under nice sounding words. I value unity, but not at the expense of morality, and judgement.

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

 

[90K]

Vatican II marked a fundamental shift towards the modern Church. The decisions of the Council, especially those regarding the liturgy, affected the lives of Catholics around the world. After Vatican II the use of the vernacular language was permitted in the celebration of the Mass and in 1970 the new Sacramentary and Novus Ordo (New Order of Mass) were established. Increased participation by the laity distinguishes Catholic life after the Second Vatican Council. Bible study groups, Marriage Encounter, social action organizations, and the charismatic renewal movement are all fruits of the Council. Vatican II made possible the many post-conciliar official Church documents on Catholic social teaching.

While the basic doctrines of the Church did not change with the Council, its influence and documents created more profound changes for the Catholic Church than occurred in the previous five hundred years. Since Pope John XXIII spoke of “opening the windows of the Church” great and gradual changes have occurred.

I see from this little bit of information that the church was trying to be more open with regards to the worlds standards. I’d have to say that it is only a precursor or the word change and not a complete all out change. Next to Judaism the Catholic religion is the oldest God believing based group and next is Martin Luther who broke away starting the Lutheran movement into the Protestant sects and they all have watered down the meanings to there specifics likings and to have it so the people will approve.

 

[Romeo]

I see from this little bit of information that the church was trying to be more open with regards to the worlds standards. I’d have to say that it is only a precursor or the word change and not a complete all out change. Next to Judaism the Catholic religion is the oldest God believing based group and next is Martin Luther who broke away starting the Lutheran movement into the Protestant sects and they all have watered down the meanings to there specifics likings and to have it so the people will approve.

But more accurately, many were reform movements against an organization seen as more and more worldly, corrupt, and power driven.

Beware top-down "revolutions".

 

[90K]

But more accurately, many were reform movements against an organization seen as more and more worldly, corrupt, and power driven.

Beware top-down "revolutions".

Well again that is the top leadership, so called speaking for the people. Again man and his influence. Like Mob bosses giving money for something. It is me that can make a difference, I see the points made by you but I guess they are pretty big to me so I really don't have to get involved. I need to be aware I believe that is important, but the hierarchy stuff may not directly effect me today. Maybe Catholic leadership in denial would be better since not all Catholics know or care about what the leadership is doing.

 

[Romeo]

Well again that is the top leadership, so called speaking for the people. Again man and his influence. Like Mob bosses giving money for something. It is me that can make a difference, I see the points made by you but I guess they are pretty big to me so I really don't have to get involved. I need to be aware I believe that is important, but the hierarchy stuff may not directly effect me today. Maybe Catholic leadership in denial would be better since not all Catholics know or care about what the leadership is doing.

Well, at the very least, you can say you made a well informed decision to embrace denial!

Whatever you decide, trust your own interpretation of scripture, if something sounds like b.s. it probably is. And remember that sticking to the tenets of your faith, doesn't mean you can't coexist in a TOLERANT society, with those you may fully believe are going to hell. Thoughts are not illegal, not yet.

 

[90K]

Well, at the very least, you can say you made a well informed decision to embrace denial!

Whatever you decide, trust your own interpretation of scripture, if something sounds like b.s. it probably is. And remember that sticking to the tenets of your faith, doesn't mean you can't coexist in a TOLERANT society, with those you may fully believe are going to hell. Thoughts are not illegal, not yet.

I’m conservative, but I shouldn’t let you think I sit on the fence. I merely said something’s are beyond my control. I’m not going to start my own religion or sect because the upper management is on the take. That would be foolish and if my pastor or priest is giving me the needed lessons in the Word of God then he is doing the job as a representative of God. That is all I can ask for, and yes we all need to beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing

 

[Romeo]

I’m conservative, but I shouldn’t let you think I sit on the fence. I merely said something’s are beyond my control. I’m not going to start my own religion or sect because the upper management is on the take. That would be foolish and if my pastor or priest is giving me the needed lessons in the Word of God then he is doing the job as a representative of God. That is all I can ask for, and yes we all need to beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing

You can ask for more than that. You don't have to accept corruption. You can go pray alone in a field. You don't need the rancid "fellowship" of the corrupt.

 

[Bonnie]

I don't mind at all. I think most mainline churches including cathlics and most protestants, have been corrupted by the ecumenical movement. Im pro religion, but anti false doctrine, ya dig it?

specifically? Are you implying the Pope is irrelevant or should be??

 

[Avatar4321]

 

[Romeo]

specifically? Are you implying the Pope is irrelevant or should be??

I'm saying he's a heretic. Yes.

 

[Bonnie]

I'm saying he's a heretic. Yes.

Based on what exactly? And are you speaking of all Popes or this one in particular???

 

[90K]

You can ask for more than that. You don't have to accept corruption. You can go pray alone in a field. You don't need the rancid "fellowship" of the corrupt.

I'm not saying I'm excepting anything that I don't know already. One we all need to be careful of what we read and how we interpreter it, next what are we all gonna do to fix it? Say it and give us a idea here and don't mess with me on my beliefs. I wanted to get a better understanding and for that I'm now in a situation where I'm in denial! How in the hell did that happen?