Catholics are Christians?

[Meriweather]

Ok, if you're going to sidestep everything I say because you can't answer properly, then I guess we're done.

.

I am meeting you head-on, not side-stepping a thing. I am not sure what kind of religious training you had, but I can tell it was nothing at all like what I had. You have to understand that to me, it is you who are living in some kind of fantasy world (or a bad dream).

I don't understand why it is so hard to believe that God loves us, and offers us an eternal life of loving and being loved. Because of this difficulty, we may not be able to find a common ground on which to begin--but perhaps I'll see you around in another thread.

 

[kjw47]

I am sorry, but this is wrong. First of all, did not God order that Cherubim be carved on the the Ark of the Covenant? Second, didn't Paul state that things like dietary law, circumcision, tithing, and anything that did not include moral law was now null and void with the New Testament?

Second, check with scholars, and they will confirm that the the interpretation of the Bible that most strayed from the originals, and contains the most errors is a favorite of Protestants--The King James version. Further, Protestants removed some books that were in use in Jesus time and the early days of the Church.

Third, the Protestant Reformation was a product or the Enlightenment political movement, where the common man wished to rule himself, not be told what to do by the State or the Church there forefathers had followed. It had so little to do with reforming anything, because as we see throughout Church history, the Church, beginning with the Apostle Judas, has had to constantly reform itself. After Judas, we see Paul and the other Apostles warning people to beware of those who tried to change what Christ taught. Christ prayed that the Church (his followers) would remain one in the same way he and the Father are One.

It is interesting an interesting side note that of those who switch from being Protestant to Catholic are the most informed Protestants; those who switch from Catholicism to a Protestant denomination are those who are least informed about the Church and its history. Something to think about.

It's like arguing over whose clown shoes are prettier.

and you feel superior because your clowns are barefoot?........

They're arguing over whose interpretation of the same myths is correct. I AM superior because I never fell for all that malarkey, which not even its adherents can agree on what went down, how and why. It's like a bunch of clowns arguing over whose little car can fit the most amount of gullible people in it. Comedy gold!

Those in a divided house that will not stand--are being mislead by satan--there is no comedy in that--you are in the same boat-- no superior involved.

You believe that I'm going to hell. I think that you're a deluded fool. I'm right. I win. .

There is no literal hell( place of eternal suffering)-- the grave is where the dead go.

 

[kjw47]

Yes the protestants as well-- The JW,s refused to stand on both sides of war--they went to prision and the concentration camps--were branded as cowards for standing up for what Jesus taught. While the rest--threw Jesus in the garbage to appease men and stand on both sides killing each other.

More Catholics and Christians than JW's were killed in the Holocaust. During this time, more than ten thousand Catholic schools were closed by the Nazis, and vile accusations against the Church were also made.

Not all Catholics and Christians were on "both sides" or appeasing men. Many gave their lives, and they should not be forgotten. Keep in mind that the majority of Slavs and Polish killed in the Holocaust were Catholics. Perhaps you remember a little brouhaha at Auschwitz several years ago when Jews objected to Catholics placing crosses there in remembrance of their many Catholic relatives who died there. Auschwitz was not just a Jewish death camp. Many Catholics--and I'm sure other Christians--lost their lives there as well.

Yes, after they realized Hitler was a mass murderer--some trinity servants refused to kill for him--Gods servants applied the teachings of Jesus to begin with and killed no one.
The fact remains--they stood on both sides by throwing Jesus away. His real teachers would never allow it to start with--they apply Jesus first..

 

[OnePercenter]

Are you aware that there is very little in the world that will make something seem desirable than the fact that you oppose it? Seriously, the more you hate something, the more you should never, ever speak about it. You are to respectable opinions what anti-matter is to matter.

So you know the factual truth but care not to believe the factual truth.

 

[OnePercenter]

There is our earthly life, and there is our eternal life. Both make up our life with God and our total existence.

Earthly life is fact, eternal life is faith based fiction. Like additives in gasoline, Religion keeps you coming back for more. It's all about the $86B/yr tax free.

 

[Avatar4321]

I notice and hear a lot of comments form protestants especially born again types that Catholics aren't Christians. Can someone please explain

The Idea of a Christian has a multi- meaning. You will find that there are no Catholics in The Scriptures and no Catholic faith or teachings in the Scriptures. ( The Term or IDEA of a Catholic or a Catholic Saint, Pope Catholic Priest, Nun, A Catholic Mary, A Catholic Church and MOST Catholic Traditions are Never found in Scriptures.

It is the Roman Catholic Church and Community that has Alienated and Denied Non Catholics as Saints.
It is the Roman Catholic Church and Community that has Alienated and Accused Non Catholic Christians as being NOT CHRISTIANS / NOT SAVED / DAMNED / DOOMED and GOING TO HELL... !

REMEMBER - That The Great Pope Gregory XVI - Declares that "MISGUIDED PEOPLE attempt TO PERSUADE themselves and others ,THAT MEN ARE NOT SAVED ONLY IN THE CATHOLIC RELIGION, but that even heretics may attain eternal life.'
The Summo Iugiter (On Mixed Marriages), Encyclical promulgated on May 27, 1832, #2

And .... the Great Pope Eugenius IV - Declares that " All OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, Jews or heretics CANNOT SHARE IN ETERNAL life and will GO INTO THE EVERLASTING FIRE, which was prepared for the devil and his angels, UNLESS THEY ARE JOINED TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH .
and The Bull of Union with the Copts', Council of Florence, Session 11, on February 4, 1442.

There are so many, many more Hurtful Statements of Popes who make Demands that one Must be a Romantic Catholic in order to be saved and to serve the SAME God.

Such as - 'Heretics (those who are NOT MEMBERS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH or who DO NOT HOLD TO CATHOLIC DOCTRINE) - Worship a God WHO IS A LIAR, and a CHRIST WHO IS A LIAR.'
This is the message of the Great Catholic Father - St. Augustine, (quoted in 'Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Graca', by Fr. J. P. Migne, Paris: 1866, 42:207).

There are Hundreds of Statements made by Popes, Priests and Individual Catholics - These Statements have eXcluded and Denied and Banned - ALL - Non Catholic Christians as being CHRISTIANS or Obtaining Salvation and Eternal Life / heaven.

After 1700 Years of Romantic Catholic eXistance- Note - That there has never been a single Non Catholic Saint. Catholics Do not Allow Non Catholics to be Saints and they are not Allowed in heaven.

With All of this ongoing for the last 1700 years of Catholic Church eXistance plus the fact that there are no idols or Images of Catholic Saints in the Scriptures, no Purgatory in the Bible, No praying to the dead, With the bible COMMANDING ..* Do not commune with the dead.

There is No, Catholic Eucharist. You will Notice that - Not a single APOSTLE or Disciple....EVER ONCE....taught the Catholic Teaching of Eucharist.

And Jesus Declared that His Physical Flesh was not Profitable and not the SUBJECT of the Statement. But His Word was the Nourishment and Life.

There is no No, Indulgences and SELLING salvation for MONEY, Not a single scripture about eternal Virginity Of Mary. There is no Prophecy or Future Role for the Catholic Church in the Revelations of the Future in Scriptures. No one is praying to Mary or anyone But Jesus ALONE. SOLA Christ. There is no declaration of Mary as Mediator / CO~ Redeemer / Co Mediatrix with an intercessory role - There is No giving Mary the title OF HEAVENLY MOTHER / QUEEN OF HEAVEN .... Not a single claim that Mary was sinless, The Rosary is not mentioned on a single page of the Bible

There is No MANDATORY Celibacy for any church Elders - With the BIBLE commanding Elders and BISHOPS are to be married. THERE IS no Prophecy or Future Role FOR catholic teaching or for the Catholic Church.
In The Bible.

Non Catholic Christians are exactly Where Satan and God have put them. They are eXcluded and demonized by the Catholic Church and accused of being Evil and never obtain Salvation or Heaven or Sainthood.

Non Catholic Christians Are Always are Trusting in Gods word and deny the Man Made fables and inventions of the deceivers in Rome and the Vatican.

REMEMBER. Catholics Do not have any Non Catholic Saints. After 1700 years. *( one Thousand Seven Hundred Years } not a single Christian has made it to Sainthood by Roman Catholics.... This is Hatred and Evil.

Catholics Are perverted and they Lie. - Pretending to be Your Christian Friend in God. But their Goal is to destroy Your faith in Gods Word and to make mockery of Your Faith in a Book and Faith in biblical Characters and a God - that they Literally Hate and despise.

The only reason to get upset about Catholics denying sainthood and other such things to noncatholics is if you presume they have any real authority to do so. I don't believe they have any authority from God, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest. If you think they do have authority, then you should submit to that authority. If the Lord speaks through the Catholic Church, fighting them makes no sense. If He doesn't, who cares? Trust God and let them do as they please.

 

[Avatar4321]

Well, Protestants weren't trying to reform the Catholic Church.

lol.....they just decided to call it the Reformation for kicks.........

Martin Luther initially did want to reform and improve the Catholic Church, but it took very little time for his followers and adherents to abandon that idea, break with the Roman Catholic Church, and move on to reforming Christianity itself, and the practice thereof.

History is never as simple and uncomplicated as looking at the names and mission statements.

And I'm sure they did the best they could. The problem is man cannot reform Christianity. If Christianity lost its purity, then God would have to restore it.

Some of the reformers recognized this at some point.

 

[Avatar4321]

I am a Christian (by the way, a Christian is anyone that accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior and as the sacrifice for their sins) - doesn't matter if you are Catholic, Methodist, Baptist whatever, as long as you acknowledge Jesus as your Lord (ruler of your life) and your Savior (the one who covers your sins) - you are a Christian.

I say that the Catholic DOCTRINE is not Biblical and most likely the establishment is corrupt.
That is not to say there are not Catholics that are not Christians. I'm sure many are.

You accept a mythical guy (Jesus) as the ruler of your life? Grow up and start accepting responsibility.

Jesus is as real as Bill Cosby. Except everyone can know Christ if they seek Him out.

And the fact that someone accepts Christ as their redeemed demonstrates that they are accepting responsibility for their lives. Why? Because it means they recognize they are a sinner and that their actions have negative consequences on themselves and others. Because we don't have the power to change those consequences, we need a Redeemer who will change us into new people and give us grace so that we can overcome those negative consequences.

 

[Avatar4321]

Man, you guys have so many different versions of what each one of you believes that it must be easy for you to dodge the point by highlighting a slip of the pen.

We are each unique people with different perceptions. People's perceptions of broccoli also differ.

So whose interpretation of the bible and god is right?

Why don't you ask Him yourself?

 

[Avatar4321]

There is our earthly life, and there is our eternal life. Both make up our life with God and our total existence.

Earthly life is fact, eternal life is faith based fiction. Like additives in gasoline, Religion keeps you coming back for more. It's all about the $86B/yr tax free.

Spoken as someone who doesn't know God.

 

[guno]

Jesus was Jewish and never a Christian. He personally had nothing to do with what became Christianity and died long before any of ther gospels had been written. If we say Christianity began with the first gospel getting written and put into use then Christianity didn't begin until at least a generation after Jesus. Everything Jesus taught was Judaism.

Jesus Christ was a Jew who taught a doctrine that was not Jewish. This different doctrine was named for him: Christianity. I would say Christianity began, not with the first Gospel, but when Jesus said, "Your sins are forgiven." Those words separated him from Orthodox Judaism as practiced both then and today.

 

[Mudda]

I am a Christian (by the way, a Christian is anyone that accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior and as the sacrifice for their sins) - doesn't matter if you are Catholic, Methodist, Baptist whatever, as long as you acknowledge Jesus as your Lord (ruler of your life) and your Savior (the one who covers your sins) - you are a Christian.

I say that the Catholic DOCTRINE is not Biblical and most likely the establishment is corrupt.
That is not to say there are not Catholics that are not Christians. I'm sure many are.

You accept a mythical guy (Jesus) as the ruler of your life? Grow up and start accepting responsibility.

Jesus is as real as Bill Cosby. Except everyone can know Christ if they seek Him out.

And the fact that someone accepts Christ as their redeemed demonstrates that they are accepting responsibility for their lives. Why? Because it means they recognize they are a sinner and that their actions have negative consequences on themselves and others. Because we don't have the power to change those consequences, we need a Redeemer who will change us into new people and give us grace so that we can overcome those negative consequences.

Geezus fucking christ! You comparing Jesus to a that rapist Bill Cosby?

 

[Mudda]

Man, you guys have so many different versions of what each one of you believes that it must be easy for you to dodge the point by highlighting a slip of the pen.

We are each unique people with different perceptions. People's perceptions of broccoli also differ.

So whose interpretation of the bible and god is right?

Why don't you ask Him yourself?

I did, he never answered, meaning he's either not there, or he doesn't give a shit about me. Either way, it doesn't look good for god.

 

[Bonzi]

Man, you guys have so many different versions of what each one of you believes that it must be easy for you to dodge the point by highlighting a slip of the pen.

We are each unique people with different perceptions. People's perceptions of broccoli also differ.

So whose interpretation of the bible and god is right?

Why don't you ask Him yourself?

I did, he never answered, meaning he's either not there, or he doesn't give a shit about me. Either way, it doesn't look good for god.

Wrong. It's not looking good for you.....

 

[Mudda]

Man, you guys have so many different versions of what each one of you believes that it must be easy for you to dodge the point by highlighting a slip of the pen.

We are each unique people with different perceptions. People's perceptions of broccoli also differ.

So whose interpretation of the bible and god is right?

Why don't you ask Him yourself?

I did, he never answered, meaning he's either not there, or he doesn't give a shit about me. Either way, it doesn't look good for god.

Wrong. It's not looking good for you.....

He never answered, what do I do now?

 

[Bonzi]

We are each unique people with different perceptions. People's perceptions of broccoli also differ.

So whose interpretation of the bible and god is right?

Why don't you ask Him yourself?

I did, he never answered, meaning he's either not there, or he doesn't give a shit about me. Either way, it doesn't look good for god.

Wrong. It's not looking good for you.....

He never answered, what do I do now?

Are you waiting for an audible voice? He can speak to you through others, you are just not listening.
There is more than one way to carry a message to someone....

 

[Mudda]

So whose interpretation of the bible and god is right?

Why don't you ask Him yourself?

I did, he never answered, meaning he's either not there, or he doesn't give a shit about me. Either way, it doesn't look good for god.

Wrong. It's not looking good for you.....

He never answered, what do I do now?

Are you waiting for an audible voice? He can speak to you through others, you are just not listening.
There is more than one way to carry a message to someone....

So he's too lazy to convince me himself? Or am I too insignificant for god to take time to answer?
And all men are liar, you can't trust what any of them say.

 

[Bonzi]

Why don't you ask Him yourself?

I did, he never answered, meaning he's either not there, or he doesn't give a shit about me. Either way, it doesn't look good for god.

Wrong. It's not looking good for you.....

He never answered, what do I do now?

Are you waiting for an audible voice? He can speak to you through others, you are just not listening.
There is more than one way to carry a message to someone....

So he's too lazy to convince me himself? Or am I too insignificant for god to take time to answer?
And all men are liar, you can't trust what any of them say.

No, you just are not opening your heart to hear him is my guess --- I don't claim to speak for others.
If you saw God and he spoke to you, would you be willing to stop living for yourself, and live to honor and please Him only?

 

[Mudda]

I did, he never answered, meaning he's either not there, or he doesn't give a shit about me. Either way, it doesn't look good for god.

Wrong. It's not looking good for you.....

He never answered, what do I do now?

Are you waiting for an audible voice? He can speak to you through others, you are just not listening.
There is more than one way to carry a message to someone....

So he's too lazy to convince me himself? Or am I too insignificant for god to take time to answer?
And all men are liar, you can't trust what any of them say.

No, you just are not opening your heart to hear him is my guess --- I don't claim to speak for others.
If you saw God and he spoke to you, would you be willing to stop living for yourself, and live to honor and please Him only?

I seriously doubt that god needs me to live my whole life honouring and pleasing him. That doesn't even make any sense that god would make beings for the sole purpose of having drones to worship him, that would have to be one HUGE ego. I'll pass on that god and find one that's not so vain.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Or am I too insignificant for god to take time to answer?
.

well, there IS that......