Catholic Theologians talk about doing away with Limbo

[Avatar4321]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051130/od_nm/pope_limbo_dc

Does anyone else have any more information on this? i think its rather interesting. Regardless of your view whether the doctrine is correct or not.

I have no problem with people believing what they want or changing what they believe. I just think its rather interesting that with the information provided there seems to be a lack of any time of input from God whether this change should go about. You would think that for a religion that has claims to be God's Church that there wouldnt be a committee of theologians coming up with the recommendations of what to do, but that the Pope or someone would go to God to find out straight from the source.

Also I think this is kind of interesting because the doctrine was one of the main reasons Martin Luther put up his 95 Thesis.

 

[dilloduck]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051130/od_nm/pope_limbo_dc

Does anyone else have any more information on this? i think its rather interesting. Regardless of your view whether the doctrine is correct or not.

I have no problem with people believing what they want or changing what they believe. I just think its rather interesting that with the information provided there seems to be a lack of any time of input from God whether this change should go about. You would think that for a religion that has claims to be God's Church that there wouldnt be a committee of theologians coming up with the recommendations of what to do, but that the Pope or someone would go to God to find out straight from the source.

Also I think this is kind of interesting because the doctrine was one of the main reasons Martin Luther put up his 95 Thesis.

I'm not sure but I'll continue to do the limbo no matter what anyone says----ok-y'all go back to being serious.

 

[theim]

Nothing good can come of this. Eliminating certain major teachings because they make some people feel uncomfortable is bad road to start going down.

 

[Big-P]

Nothing good can come of this. Eliminating certain major teachings because they make some people feel uncomfortable is bad road to start going down.

Or look at it this way. Either Limbo exists or it doesn't exist. If you believe it exists you can't just arbitrarily with it out of existence. There should be one universal rule that all religions must follow: Never change any of your beliefs. Your doctrine is written in stone. If people think that your doctrine is silly or retrograde in nature then they should abandon the religion. This way you ensure that people don't just believe in stuff that is made up as it goes along.

 

[HorhayAtAMD]

I just think its rather interesting that with the information provided there seems to be a lack of any time of input from God whether this change should go about. You would think that for a religion that has claims to be God's Church that there wouldnt be a committee of theologians coming up with the recommendations of what to do, but that the Pope or someone would go to God to find out straight from the source.

I suppose this would depend on whether the concept of limbo originated with God or with a committee of theologians 2,000 years ago. Is there any mention of limbo in the bible?

 

[Big-P]

I suppose this would depend on whether the concept of limbo originated with God or with a committee of theologians 2,000 years ago. Is there any mention of limbo in the bible?

Then you have to wonder if the bible really has anything to do with a supreme being. Chances are it doesn't. I think the Jews just made up God so everytime they went and committed genocide on people they could just say that God told them to do it.

 

[Said1]

I suppose this would depend on whether the concept of limbo originated with God or with a committee of theologians 2,000 years ago. Is there any mention of limbo in the bible?

Try this, some interesting info on Purgatory although the word is not mentioned in the bible. http://fisheaters.com//purgatory.html

 

[HorhayAtAMD]

Try this, some interesting info on Purgatory although the word is not mentioned in the bible. http://fisheaters.com//purgatory.html

The best way to understand the idea of already being forgiven but still having to be cleansed of the temporal effects of sin is by analogy: imagine you are the parent of a 7-year old child who steals a candy bar from the local grocery. The child is repentant, in tears, sobbing his apologies. You, being the good parent (as God, our Father is!) forgive that child and love him and show him your mercy. But being a good parent means that you are also just and will expect that child to pay back the store. Purgatory is God's way of forgiving us, loving us, showing us His mercy and justice -- and making us "pay back the store." Can you imagine what would happen to the child of a parent who never expected that child to "pay back the store"

I like it.

 

[Bonnie]

Try this, some interesting info on Purgatory although the word is not mentioned in the bible. http://fisheaters.com//purgatory.html

I always thought of Purgatory as being that place that cleanses people who wait to actually be in God's sight or presence. Essentially what the church has always said on this is just that... when most people die they are in somewhat of a state of grace but not yet perfect enough to be with God. I guess the church would rather people relate the word Purgatory than Limbo as Limbo sounds as if God has abandoned his, which is never the case.

 

[dilloduck]

Or look at it this way. Either Limbo exists or it doesn't exist. If you believe it exists you can't just arbitrarily with it out of existence. There should be one universal rule that all religions must follow: Never change any of your beliefs. Your doctrine is written in stone. If people think that your doctrine is silly or retrograde in nature then they should abandon the religion. This way you ensure that people don't just believe in stuff that is made up as it goes along.

I like the logic. I think religious people just like to argue about the interpretation of the doctrines. Sorta like the supreme court judges--some prefer to interpret the bible stictly and others see it as more symbolic in nature. Ultimately people just have to decide if they think they are right or not and people hate to make srious commitments like that. Especially when we're talking about eternity here. I mean you could pick the wrong doctrine and -BAM--you've been kicked down a notch. :halo:

 

[Avatar4321]

Or look at it this way. Either Limbo exists or it doesn't exist. If you believe it exists you can't just arbitrarily with it out of existence. There should be one universal rule that all religions must follow: Never change any of your beliefs. Your doctrine is written in stone. If people think that your doctrine is silly or retrograde in nature then they should abandon the religion. This way you ensure that people don't just believe in stuff that is made up as it goes along.

I have no problem with doctrinal develop. Like clarifications. Id have no problem with God issuing a new commandment or revoking an old one. I mean I am rather glad we are no longer commanded to build arks and put all the animals on it. that could get frustrating.

My problem comes two fold. You cant completely abolish a doctrine such as limbo just by having a committee meet and find that it should. Especially when there doesn't seem to be any indication that God had any say in it. It kind of destroys your claim to any divine authority if men change the doctrine without a peep from God.

My question is say they do do away with limbo. On what grounds to they justify it to the believers? It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Annie]

My uncle was a priest, Phd in theology and history. He said there never was a 'limbo', it was made up. Here's something that basically agrees with what he told me over 30 years ago:

http://www.conservativeonline.org/journals/06_19_journal/2002v6n19_id03.htm

 

[Said1]

My uncle was a priest, Phd in theology and history. He said there never was a 'limbo', it was made up. Here's something that basically agrees with what he told me over 30 years ago:

http://www.conservativeonline.org/journals/06_19_journal/2002v6n19_id03.htm

Plus, I was under the impression that Purgatory was for essentially for the unbaptized and those who hadn't recieved last rights before death. I apologize if the article said that, the print was so small, my eyes were crossing.

 

[Annie]

Plus, I was under the impression that Purgatory was for essentially for the unbaptized and those who hadn't recieved last rights before death. I apologize if the article said that, the print was so small, my eyes were crossing.

Purgatory was the 'way station' to 'work off/put in time' on 'lesser sins.' Catholic teachings have 'mortal sins'-go strait to hell, and 'venial sins'-not serious but move you away from God. (Like hitting your brother, swearing-but NOT taking the Lord's name in vain). We're pretty technical. I can't believe Jimmy Carter isn't Catholic!

 

[Said1]

Purgatory was the 'way station' to 'work off/put in time' on 'lesser sins.' Catholic teachings have 'mortal sins'-go strait to hell, and 'venial sins'-not serious but move you away from God. (Like hitting your brother, swearing-but NOT taking the Lord's name in vain). We're pretty technical. I can't believe Jimmy Carter isn't Catholic!

That wasn't my point. My point was pertaining to those who were not baptized and had not recieved absoluton before death.

 

[Annie]

That wasn't my point. My point was pertaining to those who were not baptized and had not recieved absoluton before death.

I'll leave that up to God. If limbo is non-existant, well I just dont' know. Not the function of Purgatory...

 

[USViking]

I think that from the time of St. Augustine until the last half
of the 20th century Roman Catholic teaching held that no
unbaptised soul could enter heaven.

Whether this was "doctrine" or "dogma" I do not know, although
the former is the one which is supposed to be immutable.

Anyway, in a monumental change for the better, centuries of
teaching were reversed, and the church now holds that the soul
of any virtuous person, baptised or not, may enter heaven.

I had assumed that the preposterous notion of "Limbo" was
eliminated along with the other baggage, and I am dismayed
to learn this is not so- infants, whether baptised or not, should
be accorded first place in the line to Paradise.

As for Purgatory, at least it is meant for adults who can be held
truly accountable for their actions.

 

[Bonnie]

I'll leave that up to God. If limbo is non-existant, well I just dont' know. Not the function of Purgatory...

So essentially the article you referenced suggests that Purgatory is seperate from limbo but that neither are anything that the modern church embraces because it's not specifically mentioned in the bible??? Im very curious as to what your uncle truly believes as he would know.

 

[Hobbit]

As far as I can tell, Purgatory is a place to pay off sins that were left unconfessed in your mortal life. You go there and suffer for a few centuries, and then its off to Heaven. Limbo, on the other hand, is for people who weren't baptized (which is a requirement to enter Heaven, according to Catholic doctrine), but who can't be blamed for that fact, such as children who were too young to make the decision for themselves when they died. I remember George Carlin talking about Limbo (he seemed to think Limbo had been done away with) and how he hoped they upgraded everybody there to Heaven instead of just ejecting them all into space.

 

[Annie]

So essentially the article you referenced suggests that Purgatory is seperate from limbo but that neither are anything that the modern church embraces because it's not specifically mentioned in the bible??? Im very curious as to what your uncle truly believes as he would know.

I know both came from Aquinas, which I believe someone wrote on earlier. My uncle said that Limbo was basically the way to deal with 'babies that died before baptism'. It made people 'feel better' but there was no theological basis for belief in such a thing. Purgatory was separate, Sort of between earth and heaven.

He's dead, so that's what I'm left with.