Cash for Clunkers - success or fraud?

[rdean]

Here is a pretty good article that seems to have a lot of the bases covered. Thoughts?

GOP Noise Machine continues to claim "Cash for Clunkers" was a complete failure | Media Matters for America

 

[Caroljo]

I really don't know what i believe about it's "success". but i still think it was a terrible idea!
And i really think this is all going to backfire on someone...it already is on some of the dealers that can't get their money from the govt! I am really surprised that so many cars sold. Look at how many people are out of work...they can't afford to make payments on a brand new car. My husband and I are both still working (and living in Michigan!!), but we couldn't afford it. We went to a big dealer near Lansing on Sat to see about turning in our 84 Vette (needs some work) for another used car. They still haven't found us any financing, and our credit isn't as bad as alot of others!
So i think this clunker program may have helped people with money and perfect credit already, and it helped some of the auto manufacturers (for awhile). But look at all the cars that are being crushed now, and many of them would have been perfectly good for someone with little money. I heard about a guy that turned in an 88 Camaro, and that car is now being crushed! They don't have a choice.
The Govt doesn't give away anything, we all know that, and if it sounds too good to be true then it is. After all these sales happened, now we find out that people that went through with this have to add the amount they got into the taxes as INCOME! They have to pay regular income tax on what they got, which could push some into another tax bracket so it'll cost them even more. PLUS the money came from our TAXES and now these people are paying TAXES on TAXES. Doesn't sound like such a good deal to me!

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Another Media Matters hack piece attacking HotAir. What's new here?

 

[Dr.House]

Here is a pretty good article that seems to have a lot of the bases covered. Thoughts?

Thoughts? Well anything from Media Matters is leftist dribble, but it sure does fire up the faithful masses...

Carry on, my wayward son...

 

[mascale]

No one at the Right Wing of the Republican Party seems willing to admit that the economic system that they live in, failed: Just in the last few years. Their system requires that the rich get richer, and that the poor get poorer. It Failed Miserably and Completely!

That system didn't work. The poor failed to repay the mortgages, and the rich, money-lending houses all came tumbling down!. The Republicans invented a TARP to cover the crap, which is where the Cash For Clunkers money finally came from.

Point nowhere mentioned. The economic system in its entirely, failed. TARP was a cover for CRAP. CRAP was eight years of GOP ascendancy, and administration--often with both federal legislatures, GOP. Mainly, Abraham Lincoln would have been able to note how successfully the GOP was doing in the White People. Jews were apparently done in, as a part of the cover.

Bush II came into office, aware that federal spending gets used to bail the US economy out of recessions. Bush II, Term I, cut income taxes for the rich, the poor having already been thrown off the tax rolls. Nothing happened.

The Economic Miracle of 9/11 happened. The Bush II Stimulus Spending, and from the deficit position, was on!

So the rich bankers gave all of the money to the. . . . .The poor that Lincoln had created originally, as the story goes. Just somehow, the mortgages did not get repaid. The Ivy League of America was stunned!

How could this have happened!?

Go back to Paragraph One.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(It is recalled that Her Majesty's Prime Minister was so moved, earlier in the year at Davos, that in fact great pains were taken to admonish the former colonials, and of the aborigine peoples: About the real wonders of a Credit Market! Possibly the Ivy League listened in?! Possibly the Aboriginie-Americans, of however that is said--were listening-in!? The matter of self-descriptions is intended!)

 

[keee keee]

It is a new program from the government. Went broke in two weeks, soon we will find millions and millions in fraud and waste. More than half of the money went to car companies from foreign nations not stimulating American Automobile companies. And you want to go to this for healthcare?

 

[mascale]

So upwards of 80% of "foreign" cars are made in the United States, and a GOP represented by a Knee Knee type poster won't support that?

Honda, BMW, Mercedes Models Are Built in America

Health Care reform will also engage the global economy in procedures, staff, medicines, machines, equipment, and expertise created by "foreign" companies using people from the United States.

All Conservative Republicans are on record in opposition to that, noticed at the recent Town Hall Meetings!

"Not For Their Kids!" "Not For Their Kids!" Any qualified medicines, equipment, procedures, machines, trained staff or expertise with a "foreign" label is, "Not For Their Kids!"

The GOP Conservatives have already shouted about cars, jobs, and health care! "Not For Their Kids!" "Not For Their Kids!" "Not For Their Kids!"

"Crow, James Crow! Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(So back to the basic "Spirit of Davos," we now all turn! The Party of Lincoln is at it again! Where there is a will to kill off White People, Then the Republicans will find a way!)

 

[Paulie]

I agree with Caroljo about the waste that this program perpetuated.

Crushing old cars just to get automakers and dealers some sales is not the way to fix anything.

Just think of how many decent cars were destroyed. How can anyone be ok with that kind of waste?

All this ultimately did was put more people into more debt during a time when too many of us are already way too over-leveraged as it is. Many of those destroyed vehicles could have been perfectly good alternatives to those who utilized the vouchers to buy brand new cars, and those people could have saved a ton of money and a ton of extra debt.

More debt to fix a problem of too much debt. Why do some of you not see the error in this?

 

[Big Black Dog]

Ask the car dealers who haven't received their money from the government yet if they think the program is a success. I still stick by my guns. The government has no business spending our tax money in this way. It doesn't seem like fraud to me. It seems like thieft of our countries financial resources.

 

[mascale]

""Junk" is not waste, but is "scrap." Sub-Prime is not "debt," but is "crap." "TARP" is not "Crap," but is like "CARP", which actually ended with an "S," but who's counting?

TARP has so far made $4.0 bil., for the federal government. CARS has so far been a $3.0 bil. immediate stimulus bonanza, which will create tax monies for state, local, and federal governments, likely exceeding that cost.

The GOP thought that the answer to the fuel crisis was the Invasion of Iraq. Everyone knows that Iraq had no Weapons of Mass Destruction, but was relatively liberal for a Moslem nation. Women could do things, and Sadaam Hussein made no preposterous remarks about gays. The GOP did not invade Iran, which. . . . Even Vice President Cheney told the assembled VFW that all the WMD evidence that anyone really needed was found in a hen-house near Baghdad, underneath. . .all the. . .stuff that VP Dick Cheney knew a great deal about.

The Democrats quietly went about creating less demand for oil-based fuel. CARS was about that.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Another Q master-stroke, that about the "evidence," in the hen-house," since the Global Economy was on the edge, even then. As the saying goes, "Why live on the edge, when you can jump off instead?!")

 

[KittenKoder]

It was a success at wasting money.

 

[mascale]

Following the critics of Cash For Clunkers, Then the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq was the economic miracle it was supposed to achieve!?!

Tax Cut I had failed, Tax Cut II had failed, That left. . .The only Chicken-motivated alternative that Bush II, Term I could come up with. Having been atomized, the "terrorists," were "everywhere!"

It would then be up to the mortgage-bankers. . .To inspire the remarks of the English Prime Minister at Davos, 2009.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Quaint That the Ivy League, of the Colonials, seems so far behind. . .even behind the former Vice President on so many matters! Showing what they are made of, no doubt!"

 

[KittenKoder]

Following the critics of Cash For Clunkers, Then the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq was the economic miracle it was supposed to achieve!?!

Tax Cut I had failed, Tax Cut II had failed, That left. . .The only Chicken-motivated alternative that Bush II, Term I could come up with. Having been atomized, the "terrorists," were "everywhere!"

It would then be up to the mortgage-bankers. . .To inspire the remarks of the English Prime Minister at Davos, 2009.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Quaint That the Ivy League, of the Colonials, seems so far behind. . .even behind the former Vice President on so many matters! Showing what they are made of, no doubt!"

You're babbling now.

 

[Paulie]

What the hell does Iraq have to do with Cash for clunkers??

Why don't you try really hard to stay on topic, huh?

Not every car that was traded in was junk. The WORST were junk, but plenty of them were perfectly fine for someone who doesn't need a brand new fucking SUV instead.

The fuel mileage regulations that went along with the clunker program were insulting to anyone who was actually expecting the program to have a positive effect on fuel conservation.

People were trading in their 1980's SUV's and buying brand new ones. They couldn't even regulate the program properly to be as optimal as it could have been. And why? Because they were pandering to the oil lobby as well. God forbid the program excluded any vehicles that sucked up large amounts of gasoline.

I like your part about sub-prime not being debt, too. That's hilarious. Debt is fucking debt, pal.

 

[KittenKoder]

One of our local dealerships use their entire inventory of used cars to get the money from this program, now they are trying to buy more used cars to fill their lot, yeah, some success.

 

[mascale]

Failure Paulie Poster can't distinguish one federal program, from another, and KittenKoder mainly lies about how the program worked.

Firstly, in reverse, the used car dealer would have had to trade in for new vehicles, at a new car dealership, to participate in the program. The event reported could not have occurred.

Secondly, GOP Conservative, Failed Tax Cut I, and GOP Conservative, Failed Tax Cut II--Of Failed GOP Conservative Presidency, Bush II, Terms I and II, (aka, the Basis-free Invasion and Occupation of Iraq, Including ignoring Afghanistan--excepting the apparent gift of the Poppy Crop): Were Three failed government, give-away programs. No sustained economic benefits were created, (excepting for the apparent gift of the Poppy Crop). and mountains of public debt were intentionally created.

No need for any one of the three failed GOP Conservative Programs was ever established. Post-Iraq, and Post Sub-Prime Mortgages--The latter all created by law-supportive lenders, supportive of the law creating the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq--Only post all that crap, then there arises the need for successful Cash For Clunkers.

Estimates of the federal bailouts required, subsequent failed GOP Administration, and failed GOP federal legislative tenure--by failed families, from the failed schools, failed colleges, and failed universities. all run by failures--are now at about $4.0 tril. dollars. That is actually a lot of money, at ten percent or so of all U. S. credit on the books. Nothing happened from all the $4.0 tril., No one so states, excepting for the preservative functions that the failed institutions were unable to fail at, on their own.

Cash for Clunkers was $3.0 bil. by comparison, and business activity exploded with immediacy--not anywhere noticed from the other $4.0 tril. The $4.0 tril. of non-noted activity: Is the outcome of the failed government prgram, variously known as the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq. In that program, Americans so disliked their buddies, that they had them killed there, or otherwise exploded into disabilities to have live with all of their lives.

Those are the kinds of buddies that they had, and orginating at the federal Executive Level.

Failed People, from failed families with failed parents, somehow comes to mind in America, even now!

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Ignorance of the Law Is No Excuse!" Just ask the Obamas, who are Ivy League Lawyers, and one even a teacher of it all!)

 

[Ame®icano]

Do we know if dealers ever get paid?

 

[garyd]

Oh we'll know watch when more dealers who are now on the Hook to the car companies for the vehicles the sold go belly up because the government held out on them.