Carter/Reagan

Carter's biggest problem was he lectured rather than lead.

A wagging finger in the White House can never win, people want hope.

You are so wrong. But that's okay. Bill Clinton wagged his finger in the public's face, and lied about an extramarital affair. :eek: And he went on to beat a genuine war veteran.

Lewinsky happened after he beat Dole.

true, and people liked him. People knew Bill was a womanizer and more. He beat Dole. He beat GHW Bush, a genuine war hero, even after being called a draft dodger. :lol:

Politics is funny.
 
You are so wrong. But that's okay. Bill Clinton wagged his finger in the public's face, and lied about an extramarital affair. :eek: And he went on to beat a genuine war veteran.

Lewinsky happened after he beat Dole.

true, and people liked him. People knew Bill was a womanizer and more. He beat Dole. He beat GHW Bush, a genuine war hero, even after being called a draft dodger. :lol:

Politics is funny.

Perot beat Bush Sr, so yes politics is funny.
 
That's impossible to be non-partisan. The two were as polar opposite politically as it gets.

You can be partisan. I just want to hear Carter was destroying the country, or whatever.
I guess I am asking, what events, and what Reagan did to win. For instance, there is a part in the book where Carter decides to go home, and not campaign in a certain area.

the Iranian hostage crisis, inflation, high unemployment,

Along with the equal rights amendment, the Panama Canal treaties issue, and the rise of the evangelicals (who elected Carter - oh the irony).
 
Carter could not commincate with America.

One of the reasons it is called the Presidency, is you are not just a peanut farm manager, you have to express the nation's desires, it's soul, you have to be able to understand that and articulate it.

Carter could not do it.

Reagan did.

When it comes to democratic politics, only a fool thinks their personal opinion is truer than a nation's opinion.
 
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Lewinsky happened after he beat Dole.

true, and people liked him. People knew Bill was a womanizer and more. He beat Dole. He beat GHW Bush, a genuine war hero, even after being called a draft dodger. :lol:

Politics is funny.

Perot beat Bush Sr, so yes politics is funny.

Only if one assumes all of Perot's votes were Bush's for the asking. Using your logic Nader elected G.W. Bush...along with the SCOTUS.


Anderson cost Carter votes, yet Reagan won anyway (barely with the popular vote).

W. bush, won with less than 50% of the vote.

politics are funny
 
true, and people liked him. People knew Bill was a womanizer and more. He beat Dole. He beat GHW Bush, a genuine war hero, even after being called a draft dodger. :lol:

Politics is funny.

Perot beat Bush Sr, so yes politics is funny.

Only if one assumes all of Perot's votes were Bush's for the asking. Using your logic Nader elected G.W. Bush...along with the SCOTUS.


Anderson cost Carter votes, yet Reagan won anyway (barely with the popular vote).

W. bush, won with less than 50% of the vote.

politics are funny

yes. I do think Nader beat Gore also.
 
Carter could not commincate with America.

One of the reasons it is called the Presidency, is you are not just a peanut farm manager, you have to express the nation's desires, it's soul, you have to be able to understand that and articulate it.

Carter could not do it.

Reagan did.

When it comes to democratic politics, only a fool thinks their personal opinion is truer than a nation's opinion.

Using the Reagan myths and ignoring the context of the late 70s, your argument would hold water. But some of us were very active in politics then. More was going on. How many people remember the rise of direct mailings and the Panama Canal treaties and teh constant conservative onslaught against Carter's foreign policy -- some would say interference bordering on treason?

The myths came after. The economy got better over time (debt and the deficit out of control under Reagan the balanced budget guy) and Reagan slid in with a landslide in 1984. On a lie. Reaganomics? Deregulation started under Reagan and continued under Clinton and Bush and led us to the recent economic collapse.

Happy days are here again. It is now time to pay the piper. Reagan was the pied piper who led America into a disaster
 
Perot beat Bush Sr, so yes politics is funny.

Only if one assumes all of Perot's votes were Bush's for the asking. Using your logic Nader elected G.W. Bush...along with the SCOTUS.


Anderson cost Carter votes, yet Reagan won anyway (barely with the popular vote).

W. bush, won with less than 50% of the vote.

politics are funny

yes. I do think Nader beat Gore also.

One thing about politics is it's a bullshitter's game when monday morning quarterbacking.

To validate your argument (a popular one) we'd have to take Nader, Anderson, and Perot out of the races and assume everything else would have been the same. The unknown consequences of third party candidates entering a race are never known.

Take one candidate out ,and maybe others never vote? The dynamics shift. There is possible way to judge how a race would have ended up looking back. It's all guess work that ignores the reality of how systems work.
 
Only if one assumes all of Perot's votes were Bush's for the asking. Using your logic Nader elected G.W. Bush...along with the SCOTUS.


Anderson cost Carter votes, yet Reagan won anyway (barely with the popular vote).

W. bush, won with less than 50% of the vote.

politics are funny

yes. I do think Nader beat Gore also.

One thing about politics is it's a bullshitter's game when monday morning quarterbacking.

To validate your argument (a popular one) we'd have to take Nader, Anderson, and Perot out of the races and assume everything else would have been the same. The unknown consequences of third party candidates entering a race are never known.

Take one candidate out ,and maybe others never vote? The dynamics shift. There is possible way to judge how a race would have ended up looking back. It's all guess work that ignores the reality of how systems work.
If nader hadn't run, Gore would have won Florida for sure. and I think Perot took more votes from Bush than from clinton. I don't remember who anderson was.
 
yes. I do think Nader beat Gore also.

One thing about politics is it's a bullshitter's game when monday morning quarterbacking.

To validate your argument (a popular one) we'd have to take Nader, Anderson, and Perot out of the races and assume everything else would have been the same. The unknown consequences of third party candidates entering a race are never known.

Take one candidate out ,and maybe others never vote? The dynamics shift. There is possible way to judge how a race would have ended up looking back. It's all guess work that ignores the reality of how systems work.
If nader hadn't run, Gore would have won Florida for sure. and I think Perot took more votes from Bush than from clinton. I don't remember who anderson was.

John Anderson was a Maverick before McCain. Independent.


The 2000 election because of Nader and Florida may be easier to attempt to understand, but I still say take out Nader entering the race and take out Anderson and take out Perot and there is no way to credibly say what would have happened. I'm not talking about static facts and time frames.

There is a ripple effect when things happen or change. When one person enters or leaves a race the equations all change, but so do the dynamics. Races have dynamics of their own. I'm reminded of the scientific experiments where observing something changes the outcome.

When we look back at who voted, and when, and in what numbers, we assume everything would have happened as it did for that particular set of circumstances, but in reality it's actually a different model, a different set of circumstances.

I hope I'm being clear. It's late and I'm busy with something else. :doubt:
 
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John B. Anderson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John Bayard Anderson (born February 15, 1922) is a former United States Congressman and Presidential candidate from Illinois. He was a U.S. Representative from the 16th Congressional District of Illinois and an Independent candidate in the 1980 presidential election. He was previously a member of the Republican Party. He has been a political reform leader, including serving 12 years as chair of the board of FairVote.

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another good guy with integrity and a set of values that put nation above party
 
Well, Nancy, Jimmy Carter is still alive and Reagan is dead.

Sorry Carter wins this one.
 
That's impossible to be non-partisan. The two were as polar opposite politically as it gets.

You can be partisan. I just want to hear Carter was destroying the country, or whatever.
I guess I am asking, what events, and what Reagan did to win. For instance, there is a part in the book where Carter decides to go home, and not campaign in a certain area.

the Iranian hostage crisis, inflation, high unemployment,


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IlRVy7oZ58&feature=related[/ame]
 
Add to Elvis's "the Iranian hostage crisis, inflation, high unemployment" a sense of joy and pride in being American. The seventies was an age of limits on Americans politically, culurally, and internationally. We lost the first war ever, inflation was damaging the American Dream, and we were pissed that Carter could not get our hostages home for more than a year. It was a time for change, any change: Americans would have voted for Bugs Bunny if he could turn that carrot into a machine gun. Simply, Americans wanted to be great again, and Reagan imparted that hope and feeling.
 

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