Cardinal: remove "jesus is bastard" from Talmud!

[CMike]

The Talmud is a terrible document that has not served anyone very well, Jew and none Jew, do not take my word for it look into the teachings. The Talmud is a much later writing than the Torah and not universally accepted in Judaism. The Ethiopian Jews have not accepted the Talmud and regard the Torah as the most Holy work. Hopefully the Ethiopians will never embrace the Talmud. Judaism weighs in on Catholicism so the Talmudic teachings should be not be considered of limits, on the contrary, one can learn much from this viewpoint.

The oral law (talmud & misnah) is a very important component of judaism.

The oral law is there to serve non jews. It's there to serve jews. Without the oral law the written law wouldn't be able to be executed.

These critics of the Talmud are people who are utterly ignorant about what the Talmud is, it's importance, and what it says.

It's kind of like me saying the NT is a terrible document, which hasn't served anyone well, chrisitan or non-christian.

It's your religion you can decide which document is important to you in your religion. As a jew I have no credible right to tell you what is important in your religion.

During the life of Moses, Hebrew was not a written language. Therefore the two stone tablets could not have been written in Hebrew. Most like Egyptian Hieroglyphics would have been used. An oral tradition makes sense but also serves as a reason for suspicion especially with generations of tension from both sides. I have seen writings attributed to the Talmud that I find hard to believe that anyone would embrace. I find a writer Michael Hoffman interesting but I still have to doubt some of what he has written on the Talmud because it seems to terrible to believe. Some responses to his book reviews are supposedly by Jewish people that claim he is correct.

Ryan I give you credit, you are one of the few posters here I can have an intelligent discussion with.

Judaism 101: Moses, Aaron and Miriam

G-d revealed the entire Torah to Moses. The entire Torah includes the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) that Moses himself wrote as G-d instructed him. It also includes all of the remaining prophecies and history that would later be written down in the remaining books of scripture, and the entire Oral Torah, the oral tradition for interpreting the Torah, that would later be written down in the Talmud. Moses spent the rest of his life writing the first five books, essentially taking dictation from G-d.

After Moses received instruction from G-d about the Law and how to interpret it, he came back down to the people and started hearing cases and judging them for the people, but this quickly became too much for one man. Upon the advice of his father-in-law, Yitro, Moses instituted a judicial system (Ex. 18:13-26).

Moses was not perfect. Like any man, he had his flaws and his moments of weakness, and the Bible faithfully records these shortcomings. In fact, Moses was not permitted to enter the Promised Land because of a transgression (Deut. 32:48-52). Moses was told to speak to a rock to get water from it, but instead he struck the rock repeatedly with a rod, showing improper anger and a lack of faith (Num. 20:7-13).

Moses died in the year 2488, just before the people crossed over into the Promised Land (Deut. 32:51). He completed writing the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) before he died. There is some dispute as to who physically wrote the last few verses of Deuteronomy: according to some, Moses wrote these last few verses from a vision of the future, but according to others, the last few verses were added by Joshua after Moses' death. In any case, these verses, like everything else in the Torah, were written by G-d, and the actual identity of the transcriber is not important.

Moses' position as leader of Israel was not hereditary. His son, Gershom, did not inherit the leadership of Israel. Moses' chosen successor was Joshua, son of Nun (Deut. 34:9).

Moses was 120 years old at the time that he died (Deut. 34:7). That lifespan is considered to be ideal, and has become proverbial: one way to wish a person well in Jewish tradition is to say, "May you live to be 120!"

As important as Moses was to the Children of Israel, it is always important to remember that Moses himself was not the deliverer or redeemer of Israel. It was G-d who redeemed Israel, not Moses. Moses was merely G-d's prophet, His spokesman. The traditional text of the Pesach haggadah does not even mention Moses' name. In order to prevent people from idolatrously worshipping Moses, his grave was left unmarked (Deut. 34:6).

 

[My Lady Rachel]

it's time to wake up and revise this racist shiting book and not printing it!

Are you intimately familiar with what is written in Talmud?

If not, then I suggest that you do a bit of research before spouting things that you made up in your pea sized brain or copied from some hate site.

All of the holy books of the major religions have ridiculous crap in them.

This is why smart people take what is contained in them with a grain of salt. In other words ...religion is too powerful a force for the stupid.

Considering it takes years to study the Talmud in the original languages along with all the commentaries, it's very obvious none of the critics have actually read the Talmud's lengthy books.

JESUS IS NOT EVEN MENTIONED IN THE TALMUD.....nice try. Now you can get back onto your camel and ride back to the sand of the Yeman... Your ignorance is actually quite entertaining...

The Talmud and "Yeshu" Main article: Yeshu The name Yeshu (alt: Jeshu, Yeishu, Heb: יש"&#1493 appears in various works of classical Jewish rabbinic literature including the Babylonian Talmud (redacted roughly before 600 C.E.) and the classical midrash literature written between 200 C.E. and 700 C.E.. Scholars have debated the meaning of the name, which has been used as an acronym for the Hebrew expression yemach shemo vezichro ("May his name and memory be obliterated.") The word is similar to, and may be a wordplay on, Yeshua, believed by many to be the original Aramaic or Hebrew name of Jesus. Due to this fact, along with the occurrence in several manuscripts of the Babylonian Talmud of the appellation Ha-Notzri, meaning the nazarene, and some similarities between the stories of the two figures, some or many of the references to Yeshu have been traditionally understood to refer to the Jesus of Christianity. Conversely, others have criticized this view, [18] citing discrepancies between events mentioned in association with Yeshu and the time of Jesus' life, [19] and differences between accounts of the deaths of Yeshu and Jesus. [20] In all cases of its use, the references are to individuals who (whether real or not) are associated with acts or behaviour that are seen as leading Jews away from Judaism to minuth (a term usually translated as "heresy" or "apostasy"). Therefore, whether Yeshu equates with "Jesus" has historically been a delicate question, as "Yeshu" is portrayed in a negative light, and negative portrayals of Jesus in Jewish literature might incite, or be used as an excuse for, anti-semitism among some Christians. Some argue that there is no relationship between Yeshu and the historical Jesus; some argue that Yeshu refers to the historical Jesus; some argue that Yeshu is a literary device used by Rabbis to comment on their relationship to and with early Christians. [edit] Examples The primary references to Yeshu are found in uncensored texts of the Babylonian Talmud and the Tosefta. (In 1554 the Vatican issued a papal bull censoring the Talmud and other Jewish texts, resulting in the removal of references to Yeshu). No known manuscript of the Jerusalem Talmud makes mention of the name although one translation (Herford) has added it to Avodah Zarah 2:2 to align it with similar text of Chullin 2:22 in the Tosefta. All later usages of the term Yeshu are derived from these primary references. In the Munich (1342 C.E.), Paris, and Jewish Theological Seminary manuscripts of the Talmud, the appellation Ha-Notzri is added to the last mention of Yeshu in Sanhedrin 107b and Sotah 47a as well as to the occurrences in Sanhedrin 43a, Sanhedrin 103a, Berachot 17b and Avodah Zarah 16b-17a. Student [1], Zindler and McKinsey [2] note that Ha-Notzri is not found in other early pre-censorship partial manuscripts (the Florence, Hamburg and Karlsruhe) where these cover the passages in question. Although Notzri does not appear in the Tosefta, by the time the Babylonian Talmud was produced, Notzri had become the standard Hebrew word for Christian and Yeshu Ha-Notzri had become the conventional rendition of "Jesus the Nazarene" in Hebrew. For example, by 1180 C.E. the term Yeshu Ha-Notzri can be found in the Maimonides' Mishneh Torah (Hilchos Melachim 11:4, uncensored version). Although the word Ha-Notzri literally means the nezarene (the one who was born in Nazareth), Maimonides' reference is clearly intended to indicate Jesus. To explain the dearth of references to Jesus in the Talmud, it has been argued that The Talmud was subject to censorship. During the medieval period in Europe, Jewish texts were often placed on the Index of Forbidden Books and passages deemed insulting to the Church were expurgated as of 1264 (The entire Talmud was placed on the Index by Pope Paul IV in 1559).Although restoring these passages still produces only a few mentions of Yeshu, the Mishnah, which forms the skeleton of the Talmud, was written at a time when Christianity was first emerging. The Christians were just one, apparently usual, sect with which the authors contended (others included Sadducees, Samaritans, and Gnostics). The final redaction of the Talmud, the Babylonian Talmud was created in Babylonia, where Christianity did not have the same impact as it did in the Mediterranean Basin. As such, it was not perceived of as a particularly noticeable threat. Although it is generally comprehensive, the Talmud is also prone to instances of self-censorship, particularly in response to controversial Jewish factionalism and the fear of anti-Semitic reaction (e.g. Hanukkah is only mentioned in passing in the Talmud, possibly for these reasons). The Talmud may mention Jesus and Christianity in coded terms, such as min (מין, sometimes translated "apostate" or "heretic"), though this term refers to various sectarian groups. In terms of labeling Christians as minim it is important to note the adage of Rav Nahman in the name of Rava bar Avuha in Tractate Chullin 13b: There are no minim among the gentiles, i.e., the appellation could only be applied to converts from Judaism. The Talmud was essentially the writing down of the basics of the Oral Law - despite its great size, it is still a very condensed form compared to the knowledge that existed originally, therefore, due to the limited space, only the necessities were discussed that might otherwise be forgotten.

 

[Ryan]

The oral law (talmud & misnah) is a very important component of judaism.

The oral law is there to serve non jews. It's there to serve jews. Without the oral law the written law wouldn't be able to be executed.

These critics of the Talmud are people who are utterly ignorant about what the Talmud is, it's importance, and what it says.

It's kind of like me saying the NT is a terrible document, which hasn't served anyone well, chrisitan or non-christian.

It's your religion you can decide which document is important to you in your religion. As a jew I have no credible right to tell you what is important in your religion.

During the life of Moses, Hebrew was not a written language. Therefore the two stone tablets could not have been written in Hebrew. Most like Egyptian Hieroglyphics would have been used. An oral tradition makes sense but also serves as a reason for suspicion especially with generations of tension from both sides. I have seen writings attributed to the Talmud that I find hard to believe that anyone would embrace. I find a writer Michael Hoffman interesting but I still have to doubt some of what he has written on the Talmud because it seems to terrible to believe. Some responses to his book reviews are supposedly by Jewish people that claim he is correct.

Ryan I give you credit, you are one of the few posters here I can have an intelligent discussion with.

Judaism 101: Moses, Aaron and Miriam

G-d revealed the entire Torah to Moses. The entire Torah includes the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) that Moses himself wrote as G-d instructed him. It also includes all of the remaining prophecies and history that would later be written down in the remaining books of scripture, and the entire Oral Torah, the oral tradition for interpreting the Torah, that would later be written down in the Talmud. Moses spent the rest of his life writing the first five books, essentially taking dictation from G-d.

After Moses received instruction from G-d about the Law and how to interpret it, he came back down to the people and started hearing cases and judging them for the people, but this quickly became too much for one man. Upon the advice of his father-in-law, Yitro, Moses instituted a judicial system (Ex. 18:13-26).

Moses was not perfect. Like any man, he had his flaws and his moments of weakness, and the Bible faithfully records these shortcomings. In fact, Moses was not permitted to enter the Promised Land because of a transgression (Deut. 32:48-52). Moses was told to speak to a rock to get water from it, but instead he struck the rock repeatedly with a rod, showing improper anger and a lack of faith (Num. 20:7-13).

Moses died in the year 2488, just before the people crossed over into the Promised Land (Deut. 32:51). He completed writing the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) before he died. There is some dispute as to who physically wrote the last few verses of Deuteronomy: according to some, Moses wrote these last few verses from a vision of the future, but according to others, the last few verses were added by Joshua after Moses' death. In any case, these verses, like everything else in the Torah, were written by G-d, and the actual identity of the transcriber is not important.

Moses' position as leader of Israel was not hereditary. His son, Gershom, did not inherit the leadership of Israel. Moses' chosen successor was Joshua, son of Nun (Deut. 34:9).

Moses was 120 years old at the time that he died (Deut. 34:7). That lifespan is considered to be ideal, and has become proverbial: one way to wish a person well in Jewish tradition is to say, "May you live to be 120!"

As important as Moses was to the Children of Israel, it is always important to remember that Moses himself was not the deliverer or redeemer of Israel. It was G-d who redeemed Israel, not Moses. Moses was merely G-d's prophet, His spokesman. The traditional text of the Pesach haggadah does not even mention Moses' name. In order to prevent people from idolatrously worshipping Moses, his grave was left unmarked (Deut. 34:6).

Thank you Mike, the way I understood the 40 years of wandering in the desert was consistent with much of your post. The Jewish people did not enter the "Promised Land" until all the former worshipers of idolatry had passed on. If this is an accurate interpretation then it would stand to reason that the Lord would not be pleased with many today in Israel, especially those involved in prostitution trafficking. In my view, the exploitation of people would have to be more harmful than the creating a "graven image" and most forms of "idolatry."

 

[CMike]

During the life of Moses, Hebrew was not a written language. Therefore the two stone tablets could not have been written in Hebrew. Most like Egyptian Hieroglyphics would have been used. An oral tradition makes sense but also serves as a reason for suspicion especially with generations of tension from both sides. I have seen writings attributed to the Talmud that I find hard to believe that anyone would embrace. I find a writer Michael Hoffman interesting but I still have to doubt some of what he has written on the Talmud because it seems to terrible to believe. Some responses to his book reviews are supposedly by Jewish people that claim he is correct.

Ryan I give you credit, you are one of the few posters here I can have an intelligent discussion with.

Judaism 101: Moses, Aaron and Miriam

G-d revealed the entire Torah to Moses. The entire Torah includes the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) that Moses himself wrote as G-d instructed him. It also includes all of the remaining prophecies and history that would later be written down in the remaining books of scripture, and the entire Oral Torah, the oral tradition for interpreting the Torah, that would later be written down in the Talmud. Moses spent the rest of his life writing the first five books, essentially taking dictation from G-d.

After Moses received instruction from G-d about the Law and how to interpret it, he came back down to the people and started hearing cases and judging them for the people, but this quickly became too much for one man. Upon the advice of his father-in-law, Yitro, Moses instituted a judicial system (Ex. 18:13-26).

Moses was not perfect. Like any man, he had his flaws and his moments of weakness, and the Bible faithfully records these shortcomings. In fact, Moses was not permitted to enter the Promised Land because of a transgression (Deut. 32:48-52). Moses was told to speak to a rock to get water from it, but instead he struck the rock repeatedly with a rod, showing improper anger and a lack of faith (Num. 20:7-13).

Moses died in the year 2488, just before the people crossed over into the Promised Land (Deut. 32:51). He completed writing the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) before he died. There is some dispute as to who physically wrote the last few verses of Deuteronomy: according to some, Moses wrote these last few verses from a vision of the future, but according to others, the last few verses were added by Joshua after Moses' death. In any case, these verses, like everything else in the Torah, were written by G-d, and the actual identity of the transcriber is not important.

Moses' position as leader of Israel was not hereditary. His son, Gershom, did not inherit the leadership of Israel. Moses' chosen successor was Joshua, son of Nun (Deut. 34:9).

Moses was 120 years old at the time that he died (Deut. 34:7). That lifespan is considered to be ideal, and has become proverbial: one way to wish a person well in Jewish tradition is to say, "May you live to be 120!"

As important as Moses was to the Children of Israel, it is always important to remember that Moses himself was not the deliverer or redeemer of Israel. It was G-d who redeemed Israel, not Moses. Moses was merely G-d's prophet, His spokesman. The traditional text of the Pesach haggadah does not even mention Moses' name. In order to prevent people from idolatrously worshipping Moses, his grave was left unmarked (Deut. 34:6).

Thank you Mike, the way I understood the 40 years of wandering in the desert was consistent with much of your post. The Jewish people did not enter the "Promised Land" until all the former worshipers of idolatry had passed on. If this is an accurate interpretation then it would stand to reason that the Lord would not be pleased with many today in Israel, especially those involved in prostitution trafficking. In my view, the exploitation of people would have to be more harmful than the creating a "graven image" and most forms of "idolatry."

You are right about the 40 years.

However, there are always going to be bad apples in any population. That's just the way life is.

The 40 years punishment was because of the idol worshipping. Idol worshipping is considered one of the great sins. That is why worshipping jesus, according to judaism, is idol worshipping.

In fact, based on judaism there is no difference between worshipping jesus and worshipping a golden calf.

At that time the jews just saw all the miracles G-D performed and they still worshipped the golden calf. That was bad.