Capitalistic greed is the main problem in the U.S.

[Onyx]

Your theory is based on your faith that the public with all rally together to form a militia and kill criminals.

Reiterating, there is no such thing as a criminal. Only hostiles and non-hostiles.

The militia consists of the collectively armed citizenry. I have full confidence that community members will rally to fight thugs and marauders rampaging through the streets, if not because of moral duty, then because of purely practical self-defense.

Well as soon as one milita member kills a teenager for stealing something and the boy's family retaliates with claims that the killer is lying and the militia breaks up and into war with each other, you might see where this thing will go.

When organized militias descend into street gangs, then the reaction destroys them.

That shouldn't happen though, since the militia is not a uniform organization.

I'll state again... Your theory is fine for 3rd world tribal communities or taking it to burning man... But in the US in today's world there is absolutely no way it will work.

Again, it has worked in modern societies, and it is continuing to work in modern societies today.

This is not rocket science. Kill thugs. Allow people to self govern. Make your fellow man accountable.

Do you believe in the role of the military? Same role here, except the military is governed by the good guys, and not a falsely legitimatized group of thugs.

 

[Slade3200]

Reiterating, there is no such thing as a criminal. Only hostiles and non-hostiles.

Dude, you know what I mean by the word "criminal" I'm referring to people who's actions violate the safety, privacy, or personal property of the general public. If you can't use the word criminal then give me another so I can save the lengthy details... "Violators" work for you?

The militia consists of the collectively armed citizenry. I have full confidence that community members will rally to fight thugs and marauders rampaging through the streets, if not because of moral duty, then because of purely practical self-defense.

Almost every conflict we see in today's justice system has large groups sitting on both sides. Look at OJ, did Nicole and Goldmans family have the right to go Kill OJ? If they did do you realize the shit storm reaction that would have been caused? Disputes aren't always between thugs/gangs and good valued people.

Again, it has worked in modern societies, and it is continuing to work in modern societies today.

Which modern society is run off anarchy? Name one with significant power, industry, and prosperity. Tribes in 3rd world african or desolate Alaska need not apply.

Do you believe in the role of the military? Same role here, except the military is governed by the good guys, and not a falsely legitimatized group of thugs.

Our Military is funded by Billions of dollars in Tax money and operates off an extremely strict level of discipline, rules, ranks, leadership, checks and balances, and accountability. There is no way America could operate a comparable Military under your society. Our land would be up for grabs.

 

[Onyx]

Dude, you know what I mean by the word "criminal" I'm referring to people who's actions violate the safety, privacy, or personal property of the general public. If you can't use the word criminal then give me another so I can save the lengthy details... "Violators" work for you?

Violent hostile actors.

Almost every conflict we see in today's justice system has large groups sitting on both sides. Look at OJ, did Nicole and Goldmans family have the right to go Kill OJ? If they did do you realize the shit storm reaction that would have been caused? Disputes aren't always between thugs/gangs and good valued people.

It is not the role of society to judge right and wrong. Only to defend itself. This is consistent with natural law.

In most high profile court cases, the decision provoked social outrage and rioting. That would not happen in an anarchic society.

Which modern society is run off anarchy? Name one with significant power, industry, and prosperity.

Significance and power are not important. Only that the citizens are at peace and have modest propserity, and that type of society can be adequately defended.

There have been 5 modern intentional groups that have controlled territory, being heavily influenced by extreme libertarianism or anarchism. Two still exist, while the other three were defeated in wars.

Our Military is funded by Billions of dollars in Tax money and operates off an extremely strict level of discipline, rules, ranks, leadership, checks and balances, and accountability.

Couple things.

Discipline, rules, ranks, and leadership are not mutually exclusive to state militaries.

The military is ten times the size it needs to be in order to effectively provide for the common defense.

It is the biggest source of taxpayer waste and bureaucratic incompetence. The pentagon generals focus on whimsical projects that usually fail, and the production of highly expensive military weapons and vehicles that do not equalize costs with increased efficiency.

The military is not accountable to the people. It is accountable to the group of illegitimate thugs in government. The illegitimate thugs in government are also not accountable to the people.

When the government has tried to check and oversee the military in the past, they usually have failed. There is a power struggle already, and in reality the military has more power than the government in almost all respects besides money, which in a coup they could easily take control of the existing tax system.

There is no way America could operate a comparable Military under your society. Our land would be up for grabs.

A comparable military is not desirable. The current military is not only over excessive, but a joke.

Scholars knowledgeable in this subject are likely to tell you that most US wars were won by throwing down a near unlimited amount of money and men.

I know for a fact that an efficient defense force can be established based on less than 10% of current taxation, which can easily be collected through voluntary dues. Right now, 54% of taxation goes to the utterly dysfunctional cesspool that is the US military.

 

[Slade3200]

Your theory is based on your faith that the public with all rally together to form a militia and kill criminals.

Reiterating, there is no such thing as a criminal. Only hostiles and non-hostiles.

The militia consists of the collectively armed citizenry. I have full confidence that community members will rally to fight thugs and marauders rampaging through the streets, if not because of moral duty, then because of purely practical self-defense.

Well as soon as one milita member kills a teenager for stealing something and the boy's family retaliates with claims that the killer is lying and the militia breaks up and into war with each other, you might see where this thing will go.

When organized militias descend into street gangs, then the reaction destroys them.

That shouldn't happen though, since the militia is not a uniform organization.

I'll state again... Your theory is fine for 3rd world tribal communities or taking it to burning man... But in the US in today's world there is absolutely no way it will work.

Again, it has worked in modern societies, and it is continuing to work in modern societies today.

This is not rocket science. Kill thugs. Allow people to self govern. Make your fellow man accountable.

Do you believe in the role of the military? Same role here, except the military is governed by the good guys, and not a falsely legitimatized group of thugs.

I got another one for you... My community just experience an extremely large wild fire that burned homes and close to 100,000 acres. We had over 5,500 fire fighters come to our town to fight this fire and they worked around the clock for close to 2 months and are still going. Helicopters, planes, bulldozers, community updates etc etc etc. Their efforts have saves lives, homes, businesses and are costing millions... These efforts are no where close to what the community could have done on our own. In your society our entire city would have likely been destroyed and the resources that we were fortunate enough to have would not exist, is that something you are ok with?

 

[Onyx]

I got another one for you... My community just experience an extremely large wild fire that burned homes and close to 100,000 acres. We had over 5,500 fire fighters come to our town to fight this fire and they worked around the clock for close to 2 months and are still going. Helicopters, planes, bulldozers, community updates etc etc etc. Their efforts have saves lives, homes, businesses and are costing millions... These efforts are no where close to what the community could have done on our own. In your society our entire city would have likely been destroyed and the resources that we were fortunate enough to have would not exist, is that something you are ok with?

I am going to go on a whim and guess that you come from a place like California or Texas.

Most of those wild fires are a result of government policies and civilian overuse that have depleted the natural water supply in the soil.

Public services should be paid for through voluntary means. Paying for them through theft is evil and immoral. Society does not deserve what it cannot pay for using moral and legitimate means.

If wild fires are a significant issue with some people, then they should form an organization and collect funding from the people it effects, so that they may show up at these locations and prevent environmental damage.

 

[Slade3200]

I got another one for you... My community just experience an extremely large wild fire that burned homes and close to 100,000 acres. We had over 5,500 fire fighters come to our town to fight this fire and they worked around the clock for close to 2 months and are still going. Helicopters, planes, bulldozers, community updates etc etc etc. Their efforts have saves lives, homes, businesses and are costing millions... These efforts are no where close to what the community could have done on our own. In your society our entire city would have likely been destroyed and the resources that we were fortunate enough to have would not exist, is that something you are ok with?

I am going to go on a whim and guess that you come from a place like California or Texas.

Most of those wild fires are a result of government policies and civilian overuse that have depleted the natural water supply in the soil.

Public services should be paid for through voluntary means. Paying for them through theft is evil and immoral. Society does not deserve what it cannot pay for using moral and legitimate means.

If wild fires are a significant issue with some people, then they should form an organization and collect funding from the people it effects, so that they may show up at these locations and prevent environmental damage.

The fire i'm talking about is in California along the big sur coastline. It was started at 8am by in illegal campfire. I know you don't recognize the legality of being able to start a fire while camping, but this is a prime example of how the carelessness of a few results in a disaster that effects the many. Where if they would have followed the rules set forth, the fire may have been better controlled.

You keep bringing up these voluntary dues and have such faith that they will be donated, collected, and efficiently managed.
Thats a big leap of faith and a very unreliable model. Whether it is done through taxation or donation there still needs to be a group that collects the funds, decides how they are spent, manages the budget, leads and directs the personnel and operations. You are going to encounter many of the same problems that you currently have with our state and gov programs.

 

[Slade3200]

Dude, you know what I mean by the word "criminal" I'm referring to people who's actions violate the safety, privacy, or personal property of the general public. If you can't use the word criminal then give me another so I can save the lengthy details... "Violators" work for you?

Violent hostile actors.

Almost every conflict we see in today's justice system has large groups sitting on both sides. Look at OJ, did Nicole and Goldmans family have the right to go Kill OJ? If they did do you realize the shit storm reaction that would have been caused? Disputes aren't always between thugs/gangs and good valued people.

It is not the role of society to judge right and wrong. Only to defend itself. This is consistent with natural law.

In most high profile court cases, the decision provoked social outrage and rioting. That would not happen in an anarchic society.

Which modern society is run off anarchy? Name one with significant power, industry, and prosperity.

Significance and power are not important. Only that the citizens are at peace and have modest propserity, and that type of society can be adequately defended.

There have been 5 modern intentional groups that have controlled territory, being heavily influenced by extreme libertarianism or anarchism. Two still exist, while the other three were defeated in wars.

Our Military is funded by Billions of dollars in Tax money and operates off an extremely strict level of discipline, rules, ranks, leadership, checks and balances, and accountability.

Couple things.

Discipline, rules, ranks, and leadership are not mutually exclusive to state militaries.

The military is ten times the size it needs to be in order to effectively provide for the common defense.

It is the biggest source of taxpayer waste and bureaucratic incompetence. The pentagon generals focus on whimsical projects that usually fail, and the production of highly expensive military weapons and vehicles that do not equalize costs with increased efficiency.

The military is not accountable to the people. It is accountable to the group of illegitimate thugs in government. The illegitimate thugs in government are also not accountable to the people.

When the government has tried to check and oversee the military in the past, they usually have failed. There is a power struggle already, and in reality the military has more power than the government in almost all respects besides money, which in a coup they could easily take control of the existing tax system.

There is no way America could operate a comparable Military under your society. Our land would be up for grabs.

A comparable military is not desirable. The current military is not only over excessive, but a joke.

Scholars knowledgeable in this subject are likely to tell you that most US wars were won by throwing down a near unlimited amount of money and men.

I know for a fact that an efficient defense force can be established based on less than 10% of current taxation, which can easily be collected through voluntary dues. Right now, 54% of taxation goes to the utterly dysfunctional cesspool that is the US military.

You dodged the OJ question. Did the simpson and goldman family have the right to go kill OJ because they believed he murdered their children? Note that the majority of the black community though he was innocent. How would this play out in your Anarchic system.

Also, throw me some names or links to the 2 existing Anarchic societies that you consider a success... Nothing I can do with flags.

 

[Onyx]

The fire i'm talking about is in California along the big sur coastline. It was started at 8am by in illegal campfire. I know you don't recognize the legality of being able to start a fire while camping, but this is a prime example of how the carelessness of a few results in a disaster that effects the many. Where if they would have followed the rules set forth, the fire may have been better controlled.

I guessed correctly then.

The tendency for wild fires in California is a consequence of overpopulation, government policies, and overuse of water.

It was the state that most abused the land. It is the state that should be held accountable, but it has decided not to be held accountable.

I also agree that rules need to exist and be followed.

You keep bringing up these voluntary dues and have such faith that they will be donated, collected, and efficiently managed.
Thats a big leap of faith and a very unreliable model.

The model is not supposed to be relied on.

The essence of this movement is self sufficiency and self reliance. It is not anti-dependability.

As for whether it works, it has worked very well for certain public services in the past. There have been successful cooperatives, initiatives, investment groups, and humanitarian assistance organizations that have made their success without forced taxation.

Whether it is done through taxation or donation there still needs to be a group that collects the funds, decides how they are spent, manages the budget, leads and directs the personnel and operations.

I agree. I have even said this in the past.

Do you know the difference between leadership and rulership?

You are going to encounter many of the same problems that you currently have with our state and gov programs.

The fundamental difference is that people are not forced. If someone loses faith in an institution, they are no longer threatened and intimidated into falling back in line.

This ideology is not anti-organization, anti-order, or anti-society. It is an honest means towards honest ends, as opposed to evil means towards dysfunctional ends.

 

[Onyx]

You dodged the OJ question. Did the simpson and goldman family have the right to go kill OJ because they believed he murdered their children? Note that the majority of the black community though he was innocent. How would this play out in your Anarchic system.

My personal belief is that retribution is not morally justifiable.

My personal beliefs are irrelevant in an anarchic society. I have no desire to be societies judge, jury, and executioner.

State mandates are systematically enforced opinions. Whatever happens, happens. You do not bitch and moan. You adapt.

Also, throw me some names or links to the 2 existing Anarchic societies that you consider a success... Nothing I can do with flags.

Both the RIAU and the CNT were short lived, but successful in terms of inner social organization.

They were wholly intentional anarchist entities. Both of them used the Makhnovist system of military organization, which is highly efficient for propping up an effective and cheap military adhering to anarchist principles. The reason they were inevitably crushed, despite kicking ass numerous times, was because they did not have the manpower and resources to sustain themselves against the impossible numbers of the Soviets/Whites and Falange/Republicans respectively.

Most military forces were not built in a day. These were, and during destructive wars against vastly superior forces nonetheless.

To put things into perspective, the RIAU won many incredible battles against the Soviet Union, White Army, foreign western armies, and amidst a giant anti-anarchist propaganda campaign from the west. The fact that they survived, and that the industrial communities they protected were secure and prosperous, is a sign of success. That goes for the CNT as well.

 

[SmokeALib]

Hey, let's face the facts -
Some people really do need a huge, unaccountable, and bankrupt government to think and do everything for them.
That's how they've been indoctrinated in our leftist public school system for the past two decades.
Remember to bring your calculators.
1+1+1+1=4.
Ass clowns.