Capitalism or Communism? Is communism really that horrible?

[amrchaos]

Can anyone point to a country that has truly free market capitalism?

How about one that actually practices the tenets of Communism?

No

But Capitalism left to run amok can fall into a system of kleptocrats

Communisim, strong armed idiots

 

[naturegirl]

For communism to even be quasi successful would require total obedience and dictation of every aspect of life..

Communism fails for a reason...

I suppose the biggest reasons are A) people dont like being treated like prisoners and B) humans do a lousy job planning and dictating economies..

Communism and socialism only works with a base of robots, slaves, or prisoners bowing to the state and ruling elite which will ALWAYS exist in such a system(which despite what the kumbaya chanting hippies try to portray as a utopian communist state)

That's exactly why Obummer thinks it will work here. He's used to dealing with robots, slaves and prisoners bowing to his community organizing work. People that are so poor and uneducated he can promise them a lifetime of food and housing and they'll do what ever he wants. He had no idea what to expect when he had to face the entire US population instead of his chosen sheep. I believe he honestly thought we are all Sheeple, he's had quite a surprise, hasn't he??

His inexperience has created a divided, racially charged US. One that he loves because he can do his magic behind closed doors if we're focused on unimportant issues.

We're much smarter than that!!

 

[Mr.Nick]

Can anyone point to a country that has truly free market capitalism?

How about one that actually practices the tenets of Communism?

The United States once did practice true capitalism - well until Wilson.

 

[Ambrose]

" You mean before human nature sets in"

Yes thats what i am trying to compare. Before people can buy they're way to the top of a supposedly "non existant" ladder. But of course in every communist government so far this has happened because of human nature

 

[Mr.Nick]

For communism to even be quasi successful would require total obedience and dictation of every aspect of life..

Communism fails for a reason...

I suppose the biggest reasons are A) people dont like being treated like prisoners and B) humans do a lousy job planning and dictating economies..

Communism and socialism only works with a base of robots, slaves, or prisoners bowing to the state and ruling elite which will ALWAYS exist in such a system(which despite what the kumbaya chanting hippies try to portray as a utopian communist state)

That's pretty much it...

Those that advocate communism call it a "cooperative society."

Communism is really nothing more than slavery at the hands of a few elite.

I had no idea misery was utopia.... Of course progressives love it because it seems "fair." but I suppose when you eat rocks eating mud is a step up...

 

[SniperFire]

" You mean before human nature sets in"

Yes thats what i am trying to compare. Before people can buy they're way to the top of a supposedly "non existant" ladder. But of course in every communist government so far this has happened because of human nature

Seems to me you are answering the OP question.

 

[usmcstinger]

How Many People Did Communism Kill?
http://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=1191

Under Communism you will be told where to live, the amount of education you will be given, the job you will be assigned to and what you income will be. There will be no real Unions. Your entire life will be controlled by the Communist leaders. Suspicion of being disloyal is enough to be executed.

You would have to be a complete idiot living in a delusional world to prefer living under a Communist Government. Talk to the people who lived under Communism and are now free.

 

[Ambrose]

Thank you finally.. This is the replies/discussion i wanted.. No i hate communism it dosnt work and it essentially is slavery. But i wanted to try and pull a discussion and somewhat debate on it.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If we ever do move to a time when Communists formally announce their takeover of the Democrat Party and start to take over the USA, my one consolation is that the Liberal Intellectuals will be the first ones rounded up and executed because first, they are unarmed and second they were too fucking stupid to understand the system they were cheer leading

 

[miami_thomas]

After college I was all for communism. Call it indoctrination of the liberal teachers. However, I thought about it deeply and came to the conclusion it can never work. First, equal is a fantasy. Nothing can be equal because there is not an equal amount of resources. It is a fairy tale to believe everyone can have the same of everything because someone will always have something better. Whether it is lake front property, warmer climate, etc…. Everyone can not live on the beach in sunny south Florida or in Hawaii. Then we get to work. Everyone can not have the cushy chair job. Someone has to pick up the trash. Someone has to dive into the sewage tanks and risk hepatitis to clean it. Who is going to do those jobs freely if everything is equal? There is nothing more to gain from doing those jobs. Heck if everyone has the same thing then why work at all? Then the government will have to force people to work and then there goes human rights. The only way communism, socialism, liberalism, etc… can truly work is if we lived in the perfect world with the perfect resources and populated with the perfect people. We have none and that is why those forms of government will always fail in the end. Capitalism works because people in the end are greedy and always want more. No matter what form of government you have you will always have the haves and have nots. The only real question is does the individual decide through his own efforts and accomplishments or does the government get to pick the haves?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Going into this i would like to say that i am more on the capitalist end of the spectrum. Though going into this i am generally capitalist knowing the pros and cons of them both may change your own mind. Even though communism was originally a social thing it has also found itself as a government with one man in control. So lets try and picture it with a U.S or near that style democracy.
In essence capitalism is smaller government and communism is huge government. Now before your western instincts tell you to instantly choose capitalism think of the benefits of huge government control in your life.
In communism ideal/original communism everyone is equal. Though it almost never happens that a nation goes completely on the guidelines of a known social policy. Everyone is equal and therefore have the same things to live on and lean on their whole lives. Everyone once again must be equal in society and as a result you lose the right to earn. So in exchange for a lifetime safety net given by the government you give up the ability to earn your way up the ladder. This is because only one social class exist and that is common working class. So you have nothing to look foward to besides that life forever.
It is up to you to decide whether that is a bad or a good thing for you. As a result of this innovation potential is silenced. So is a lifelong safety net really worth losing earning rights and silencing so much potential for innovation?
Now knowing the main gains and losses of communism lets talk about capitalism.
Essentially capitalism is the exact opposite of communism in its original and purest form. In ideal/original capitalism they're is pretty much no government interference in your life. Of course they still have laws as any other nation but if you follow them you are left alone for all of your life. Capitalism is that sweet freedom you taste, love and learn about. In ideal capitalism you can go out and earn it all. You can dream big and dream about the journey there. You can be a bigshot nobody will ever forget. But with that ability to dream big and earn it all you lose that security you had with communism. And if someone earns too much capital they can decide to make everyone else work for dirt cheap money if they choose. They can dominate or without a law from it a monopoly can occur. And if you fail you have nothing to fall back on unless a generous citizen with decent capital decides to help you up.
So is the freedom of capitalism worth the possibility of ending up with nothing?
In conclusion i would like to share my opinion. I belive the risk involved with capitalism is worth the big dreams and potential unlocked that comes with it. People have bigger things to live for and more fuel to live on. Because "the dream" actually exist. In addition to the fact that the world/nation could innovate so much faster.
I would like for you to build an opinion of your own and for you to give me your feedback and for you to discuss amongst youselves.

Communism, in theory, is great
Communism, in practice, is deadly. Chairman Mao, Stalin are just 2 examples of leaders who's people starved to death in the name of communism.

 

[Mr.Nick]

" You mean before human nature sets in"

Yes thats what i am trying to compare. Before people can buy they're way to the top of a supposedly "non existant" ladder. But of course in every communist government so far this has happened because of human nature

You really can't buy your way to the top of anything...

A collectivist with an IQ of 90 cant buy themselves an IQ of 120.. Just like the guy with the IQ of 120 will always be more intelligent than the 120 collectivists with an IQ of 90...

Collectivism doesn't work...

I would call collectivism a borderline coping mechanism for individual idiocy.

 

[Ambrose]

After college I was all for communism. Call it indoctrination of the liberal teachers. However, I thought about it deeply and came to the conclusion it can never work. First, equal is a fantasy. Nothing can be equal because there is not an equal amount of resources. It is a fairy tale to believe everyone can have the same of everything because someone will always have something better. Whether it is lake front property, warmer climate, etc…. Everyone can not live on the beach in sunny south Florida or in Hawaii. Then we get to work. Everyone can not have the cushy chair job. Someone has to pick up the trash. Someone has to dive into the sewage tanks and risk hepatitis to clean it. Who is going to do those jobs freely if everything is equal? There is nothing more to gain from doing those jobs. Heck if everyone has the same thing then why work at all? Then the government will have to force people to work and then there goes human rights. The only way communism, socialism, liberalism, etc… can truly work is if we lived in the perfect world with the perfect resources and populated with the perfect people. We have none and that is why those forms of government will always fail in the end. Capitalism works because people in the end are greedy and always want more. No matter what form of government you have you will always have the haves and have nots. The only real question is does the individual decide through his own efforts and accomplishments or does the government get to pick the haves?

I agree with you all the way. Though its what some may picture utopian communism cannot work. But i was looking for an arguement. Either amongst eachother or with me. It appears that i was the one attacked for even comparing capitalism and communism lol.

 

[Dick Tuck]

For communism to even be quasi successful would require total obedience and dictation of every aspect of life..

Communism fails for a reason...

I suppose the biggest reasons are A) people dont like being treated like prisoners and B) humans do a lousy job planning and dictating economies..

Communism and socialism only works with a base of robots, slaves, or prisoners bowing to the state and ruling elite which will ALWAYS exist in such a system(which despite what the kumbaya chanting hippies try to portray as a utopian communist state)

Like monastic orders and consenting collective farms?

 

[miami_thomas]

Can anyone point to a country that has truly free market capitalism?

How about one that actually practices the tenets of Communism?

No

But Capitalism left to run amok can fall into a system of kleptocrats

Communisim, strong armed idiots

Yes we need a government to regulate out the small businesses and help the big corporations run the nation. We need more regulations to protect us from fresh milk and lemonade on the streets. Those evil banks trying to rob us by forcing us to sign a contract to purchase a car or house we can not afford. Yes totally free capitalism is scary.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

For communism to even be quasi successful would require total obedience and dictation of every aspect of life..

Communism fails for a reason...

I suppose the biggest reasons are A) people dont like being treated like prisoners and B) humans do a lousy job planning and dictating economies..

Communism and socialism only works with a base of robots, slaves, or prisoners bowing to the state and ruling elite which will ALWAYS exist in such a system(which despite what the kumbaya chanting hippies try to portray as a utopian communist state)

Like monastic orders and consenting collective farms?

There's no mandate to join a Monastic order or farm.

See the difference?

 

[miami_thomas]

I mean in its original form. Like i said, Picture it with democracy, Of course we all know modern communism is absolutely horrible and victimizing. I wouldnt dream of that any day.

You mean... in theory, before human nature gets added in?

That is right SF

Utopia is achievable--- If we don't include Humans![/QUOTE]

Yes if only we get rid of all the crappy humans dirtying the earth. The earth would be a utopia for no one until it ends.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Going into this i would like to say that i am more on the capitalist end of the spectrum. Though going into this i am generally capitalist knowing the pros and cons of them both may change your own mind. Even though communism was originally a social thing it has also found itself as a government with one man in control. So lets try and picture it with a U.S or near that style democracy.
In essence capitalism is smaller government and communism is huge government. Now before your western instincts tell you to instantly choose capitalism think of the benefits of huge government control in your life.
In communism ideal/original communism everyone is equal. Though it almost never happens that a nation goes completely on the guidelines of a known social policy. Everyone is equal and therefore have the same things to live on and lean on their whole lives. Everyone once again must be equal in society and as a result you lose the right to earn. So in exchange for a lifetime safety net given by the government you give up the ability to earn your way up the ladder. This is because only one social class exist and that is common working class. So you have nothing to look foward to besides that life forever.
It is up to you to decide whether that is a bad or a good thing for you. As a result of this innovation potential is silenced. So is a lifelong safety net really worth losing earning rights and silencing so much potential for innovation?
Now knowing the main gains and losses of communism lets talk about capitalism.
Essentially capitalism is the exact opposite of communism in its original and purest form. In ideal/original capitalism they're is pretty much no government interference in your life. Of course they still have laws as any other nation but if you follow them you are left alone for all of your life. Capitalism is that sweet freedom you taste, love and learn about. In ideal capitalism you can go out and earn it all. You can dream big and dream about the journey there. You can be a bigshot nobody will ever forget. But with that ability to dream big and earn it all you lose that security you had with communism. And if someone earns too much capital they can decide to make everyone else work for dirt cheap money if they choose. They can dominate or without a law from it a monopoly can occur. And if you fail you have nothing to fall back on unless a generous citizen with decent capital decides to help you up.
So is the freedom of capitalism worth the possibility of ending up with nothing?
In conclusion i would like to share my opinion. I belive the risk involved with capitalism is worth the big dreams and potential unlocked that comes with it. People have bigger things to live for and more fuel to live on. Because "the dream" actually exist. In addition to the fact that the world/nation could innovate so much faster.
I would like for you to build an opinion of your own and for you to give me your feedback and for you to discuss amongst youselves.

Communism, in theory, is great
Communism, in practice, is deadly. Chairman Mao, Stalin are just 2 examples of leaders who's people starved to death in the name of communism.

Uncle Joe? FDR's BFF? And Mao? The guy who got FDR's support instead of Shek?

Wow.

 

[DiamondDave]

For communism to even be quasi successful would require total obedience and dictation of every aspect of life..

Communism fails for a reason...

I suppose the biggest reasons are A) people dont like being treated like prisoners and B) humans do a lousy job planning and dictating economies..

Communism and socialism only works with a base of robots, slaves, or prisoners bowing to the state and ruling elite which will ALWAYS exist in such a system(which despite what the kumbaya chanting hippies try to portray as a utopian communist state)

Like monastic orders and consenting collective farms?

Why did the communes of the 60's wither and die? And you think there are not power structures in the clergy, even in monastic orders??

You're a fucking idiot....

Still waiting to have you post my alleged racist rantings... my hispanic/asian fiancee and various race background family members need to see such things that you claim of me, first hand....

 

[miami_thomas]

For communism to even be quasi successful would require total obedience and dictation of every aspect of life..

Communism fails for a reason...

I suppose the biggest reasons are A) people dont like being treated like prisoners and B) humans do a lousy job planning and dictating economies..

Communism and socialism only works with a base of robots, slaves, or prisoners bowing to the state and ruling elite which will ALWAYS exist in such a system(which despite what the kumbaya chanting hippies try to portray as a utopian communist state)

Like monastic orders and consenting collective farms?

Like the Indian tribes around the nation that run a socialist society. Of course they never clean their house or their yards. They never repair or remodel their homes. It is not that they are lazy it is just that if they do the chief will take their home and give it to a family member of his. So why do it if you will lose it anyways. A wonderful place I tell you.