Capitalism and the Tragedy of the Commons

[gslack]

Go ahead and look. I've posted around one third of the posts. Someone looked it up recently and I was the most posted at around 970. The thread was around 3400 at the time.

"The List" is just nonsense as I have admitted all along. It is just a spoof competition with the Stupid MormAn thread which if you are in an investigative mood is held up with more meaningless replies by its author than mine. They had a year head start on me. The point is to be on the Home Page as to garner attention from all the visitors to USMB. That is where most of the views come from for both my thread and the fore mentioned Stupid MormAn thread.

oh sure just a joke.... Thats why you make sure we all know about it.... uh huh.... And all the homo-cage and gay porn talk is just a big funny joke too huh..... yeah....

THere is a joke here and its not your thread.... its you...

The joke gets around. Maybe half of "The List" is nominations of other members that would like to see their favorite dumb ass punished as only I can do. Most of my PM's are requests for that purpose.

Just because it doesn't engrandise your little pimple self does not mean it isn't happening.

The HOMO CAGE and the more recent CRAZY CAGE and the LIPTICK LOUNGE/CAGE are reflections of the tone of the board. As you have noticed it fluctuates all over the place.

Of course it is all juvenile and base. I try not to take myself as seriously as some on an annonymous message board where I am one of the few that posts his real name and photo..and where I can be found. I'd post my phone number but I know you would abuse it.

Well if you don't take it or yourself so seriously why do try and use it to shut people up? As I recall you every time you get disagreed with, the first thing you do is tell every one about your thread and or threaten people with it... Matter of fact you just used it like that a few minutes ago...

And please douchebag closet case, spare me... no one wants your number... in fact most of us already have your number... Number as in MO... you are a douchebag who thinks hes far bigger, better, smarter, talented, etc, than you really are.. I even posted a recent pic of you didn't I....

LOL pretty accurate depiction too..

And the tone of the board? AHAHAHAHAHAHAA! dude you have 2 people other than you who post in it at all, and the last week only one and that was days apart.... LOL get over yourself moron....LOL

And BTW genius... Its aggrandize... LOL

 

[HUGGY]

oh sure just a joke.... Thats why you make sure we all know about it.... uh huh.... And all the homo-cage and gay porn talk is just a big funny joke too huh..... yeah....

THere is a joke here and its not your thread.... its you...

The joke gets around. Maybe half of "The List" is nominations of other members that would like to see their favorite dumb ass punished as only I can do. Most of my PM's are requests for that purpose.

Just because it doesn't aggrandise your little pimple self does not mean it isn't happening.

The HOMO CAGE and the more recent CRAZY CAGE and the LIPTICK LOUNGE/CAGE are reflections of the tone of the board. As you have noticed it fluctuates all over the place.

Of course it is all juvenile and base. I try not to take myself as seriously as some on an anonymous message board where I am one of the few that posts his real name and photo..and where I can be found. I'd post my phone number but I know you would abuse it.

Well if you don't take it or yourself so seriously why do try and use it to shut people up? As I recall you every time you get disagreed with, the first thing you do is tell every one about your thread and or threaten people with it... Matter of fact you just used it like that a few minutes ago...

And please douchebag closet case, spare me... no one wants your number... in fact most of us already have your number... Number as in MO... you are a douchebag who thinks hes far bigger, better, smarter, talented, etc, than you really are.. I even posted a recent pic of you didn't I....

LOL pretty accurate depiction too..

And the tone of the board? AHAHAHAHAHAHAA! dude you have 2 people other than you who post in it at all, and the last week only one and that was days apart.... LOL get over yourself moron....LOL

And BTW genius... Its aggrandize... LOL

I disdain censorship. I am not a mod. I have no power to stop free speech. I do not use spell check as often as I could. I at 6 feet and 230lbs am not the biggest. So far CalGirl claims the highest IQ. I do not threaten with "The List".. I act. Better?..more talented? Too subjective.

Your obsession is my possession.

 

[gslack]

The joke gets around. Maybe half of "The List" is nominations of other members that would like to see their favorite dumb ass punished as only I can do. Most of my PM's are requests for that purpose.

Just because it doesn't aggrandise your little pimple self does not mean it isn't happening.

The HOMO CAGE and the more recent CRAZY CAGE and the LIPTICK LOUNGE/CAGE are reflections of the tone of the board. As you have noticed it fluctuates all over the place.

Of course it is all juvenile and base. I try not to take myself as seriously as some on an anonymous message board where I am one of the few that posts his real name and photo..and where I can be found. I'd post my phone number but I know you would abuse it.

Well if you don't take it or yourself so seriously why do try and use it to shut people up? As I recall you every time you get disagreed with, the first thing you do is tell every one about your thread and or threaten people with it... Matter of fact you just used it like that a few minutes ago...

And please douchebag closet case, spare me... no one wants your number... in fact most of us already have your number... Number as in MO... you are a douchebag who thinks hes far bigger, better, smarter, talented, etc, than you really are.. I even posted a recent pic of you didn't I....

LOL pretty accurate depiction too..

And the tone of the board? AHAHAHAHAHAHAA! dude you have 2 people other than you who post in it at all, and the last week only one and that was days apart.... LOL get over yourself moron....LOL

And BTW genius... Its aggrandize... LOL

I disdain censorship. I am not a mod. I have no power to stop free speech. I do not use spell check as often as I could. I at 6 feet and 230lbs am not the biggest. So far CalGirl claims the highest IQ. I do not threaten with "The List".. I act. Better?..more talented? Too subjective.

Your obsession is my possession.

And your creepy homosexual undertones are disturbing....

Oh my at 6' feet and 230 lbs,(another thinly veiled threat?) you are still a closet case homophobic.. And yes you do threaten with the list bub ya did it to me several times don't lie.... Matter of fact you remember threatening to pound me into what was it again??

yeah... that was you moron... Now you are trying to bullshit your way out of the hole you dug yourself, and no one who knows you on here is fooled.... GO back and post more videos to yourself tool...

A pic of HUGGY..

 

[HUGGY]

Well if you don't take it or yourself so seriously why do try and use it to shut people up? As I recall you every time you get disagreed with, the first thing you do is tell every one about your thread and or threaten people with it... Matter of fact you just used it like that a few minutes ago...

And please douchebag closet case, spare me... no one wants your number... in fact most of us already have your number... Number as in MO... you are a douchebag who thinks hes far bigger, better, smarter, talented, etc, than you really are.. I even posted a recent pic of you didn't I....

LOL pretty accurate depiction too..

And the tone of the board? AHAHAHAHAHAHAA! dude you have 2 people other than you who post in it at all, and the last week only one and that was days apart.... LOL get over yourself moron....LOL

And BTW genius... Its aggrandize... LOL

I disdain censorship. I am not a mod. I have no power to stop free speech. I do not use spell check as often as I could. I at 6 feet and 230lbs am not the biggest. So far CalGirl claims the highest IQ. I do not threaten with "The List".. I act. Better?..more talented? Too subjective.

Your obsession is my possession.

And your creepy homosexual undertones are disturbing....

Oh my at 6' feet and 230 lbs,(another thinly veiled threat?) you are still a closet case homophobic.. And yes you do threaten with the list bub ya did it to me several times don't lie.... Matter of fact you remember threatening to pound me into what was it again??

yeah... that was you moron... Now you are trying to bullshit your way out of the hole you dug yourself, and no one who knows you on here is fooled.... GO back and post more videos to yourself tool...

A pic of HUGGY..

Matter of fact you remember threatening to pound me into what was it again??





Sorry mini-me...I don't recall.. post proof!


I have to deal with real live threats here at the no tell motel. Your imaginary ones don't ring a bell.

 

[westwall]

And with your every argument, you are revealing a style...the question is; are you that condescending, egocentric and self-indulgent or are you just so insecure that you need to create a facade?

I don't talk about what I do for a living, because A) it is my business B) it should be irrelevant to what I think and say. This is a forum, not a workplace. But you want to turn it into a resume instead of a discussion.

So here is a little of mine. I was a psychology/sociology major in college, but I was forced to drop out because of family health issues. But luckily, I eventually found the ultimate field application for my chosen field, the people business. I spent over 20 years selling heavy equipment; John Deere and then Caterpillar.

I worked for corporations and I called on corporations, thousands of them. Some were the worst polluters and some were good environmental stewards. I know a LOT about them, I know a LOT about the people who own them, run them, manage them, direct their workforce and do the work for them.

I can tell you that corporations are wonderful in some ways and woefully destructive in others. And it all has to do with people, human psychology and the human condition. A corporation exists for profit. And because profit is always the top of the food chain, every decision, promotion, demotion and firing is measured against that objective...profit. But unfortunately, profit is often garnered by employing negative solutions...shortcuts, circumventing safeguards and in the worst cases, criminal activity.

I am always amazed at people on the right who vehemently defend corporations and then turn around and preach about individual responsibility, moral responsibility and berate collectivism. A corporation abates personal and moral responsibility and promotes collectivism. Descent men and women, fathers and mothers can morally justify making decisions that are woefully destructive to humans and other life form, all because of they are feeding the food chain...profit. And the irony is, their actions carry reward instead of repudiation. They are often promoted, admired by the collective and rewarded monetarily.

But the ultimate irony; the right boasts and grandstands that they represent the Constitution and the intent of our founding fathers. But they refuse to learn or accept what our founding fathers practiced in governing our nation. When you tell them how our founding fathers viewed and treated corporations, you might as well be speaking Chinese.

The word "corporation" is nowhere in Constitution. Our founding fathers created a GOVERNMENT, not a private entity. Corporations like the British East India Company were tools of the king's oppression.

They did subscribe to the idea of local control. The 10th Amendment left control of corporations to the states.

BUT, they also placed very strict government regulations on corporations:

*Corporations could not own stock in other corporations
*Corporations were prohibited from any part of the political process
*Individual stockholders were held personally liable for any harms done by the corporation
*Corporations had to represent a clear benefit for the public good
Ref.

Thomas Jefferson's vision of America was an agrarian society. His beliefs were founded in his aversion to industrialization as much they were fueled by his beliefs in the virtue of an agrarian society that offered economic self-sufficiency and personal independence.

"The United States... will be more virtuous, more free and more happy employed in agriculture than as carriers or manufacturers. It is a truth, and a precious one for them, if they could be persuaded of it." --Thomas Jefferson to M. de Warville, 1786. ME 5:402

While we have land to labour then, let us never wish to see our citizens occupied at a work-bench, or twirling a distaff. Carpenters, masons, smiths, are wanting in husbandry: but, for the general operations of manufacture, let our work-shops remain in Europe. It is better to carry provisions and materials to workmen there, than bring them to the provisions and materials, and with them their manners and principles. The loss by the transportation of commodities across the Atlantic will be made up in happiness and permanence of government. The mobs of great cities add just so much to the support of pure government, as sores do to the strength of the human body. It is the manners and spirit of a people which preserve a republic in vigour. A degeneracy in these is a canker which soon eats to the heart of its laws and constitution.

Thomas Jefferson on manufacturing and commerce

I change my style of discourse depending on whom I'm speaking with as you could discern if you chose to look through a few of my posts. You left out of your choices for the way I converse everything having to do with the opposition...mainly you in this thread. So I will add those choices for you, C) respondent chooses to ignore evidence that counters his claim so instead attacks the people speaking against him thus eliciting corresponding conversational style....I think that's enough don't you?

The things you posted after your self serving attack on me are actually fairly cogent and proper...why don't you allways talk like that? You would get a hell of a lot further down the road and people wouldn't think you a fool.

I change my style of discourse depending on whom I'm speaking with

So you aren't JUST a windbag...you are a two faced windbag!

At least you bring your own little pedistal around with you.

GooSlurper must be your muse... you are so alike and so full of yourselves.

Nope, I'm not just your usual usmessageboard windbag. I am a highly educated windbag!
And yes i do in fact have my vry own step stool so I can look out over the crowd

 

[HUGGY]

I change my style of discourse depending on whom I'm speaking with as you could discern if you chose to look through a few of my posts. You left out of your choices for the way I converse everything having to do with the opposition...mainly you in this thread. So I will add those choices for you, C) respondent chooses to ignore evidence that counters his claim so instead attacks the people speaking against him thus eliciting corresponding conversational style....I think that's enough don't you?

The things you posted after your self serving attack on me are actually fairly cogent and proper...why don't you allways talk like that? You would get a hell of a lot further down the road and people wouldn't think you a fool.

I change my style of discourse depending on whom I'm speaking with

So you aren't JUST a windbag...you are a two faced windbag!

At least you bring your own little pedistal around with you.

GooSlurper must be your muse... you are so alike and so full of yourselves.

Nope, I'm not just your usual usmessageboard windbag. I am a highly educated windbag!
And yes i do in fact have my vry own step stool so I can look out over the crowd

Nice... A bit conspicuous.. but an advantage in a crowd.

 

[gslack]

I change my style of discourse depending on whom I'm speaking with

So you aren't JUST a windbag...you are a two faced windbag!

At least you bring your own little pedistal around with you.

GooSlurper must be your muse... you are so alike and so full of yourselves.

Nope, I'm not just your usual usmessageboard windbag. I am a highly educated windbag!
And yes i do in fact have my vry own step stool so I can look out over the crowd

Nice... A bit conspicuous.. but an advantage in a crowd.

HUGGY in uniform...

 

[geauxtohell]

Nice... A bit conspicuous.. but an advantage in a crowd.

Huggy,

We don't always agree, but please stop biting on gslack's troll bait. This is a pretty interesting thread. I am enjoying the back and forth and would rather not see gslack derail yet another good thread with his asinine posts. You'll notice that every other poster is ignoring him.

Remember, it takes two to tango. When there is only one, then the only option is to jerk-off.

Or in slackers case, to be a jerk-off.

 

[gslack]

Nice... A bit conspicuous.. but an advantage in a crowd.

Huggy,

We don't always agree, but please stop biting on gslack's troll bait. This is a pretty interesting thread. I am enjoying the back and forth and would rather not see gslack derail yet another good thread with his asinine posts. You'll notice that every other poster is ignoring him.

Remember, it takes two to tango. When there is only one, then the only option is to jerk-off.

Or in slackers case, to be a jerk-off.

Ah yes gslack the mad derailer..... LOL...

Kind of like you and your little buddy tried to do in my thread...Huh....

And how HUGGY and his Bikerbitch tried to do in my other thread.....

LOL, tell ya what boys, I wont wreck your little circle jerk man love thing, and you don't act like douchebags....Okay?

 

[Bfgrn]

I change my style of discourse depending on whom I'm speaking with as you could discern if you chose to look through a few of my posts. You left out of your choices for the way I converse everything having to do with the opposition...mainly you in this thread. So I will add those choices for you, C) respondent chooses to ignore evidence that counters his claim so instead attacks the people speaking against him thus eliciting corresponding conversational style....I think that's enough don't you?

The things you posted after your self serving attack on me are actually fairly cogent and proper...why don't you allways talk like that? You would get a hell of a lot further down the road and people wouldn't think you a fool.

I change my style of discourse depending on whom I'm speaking with

So you aren't JUST a windbag...you are a two faced windbag!

At least you bring your own little pedistal around with you.

GooSlurper must be your muse... you are so alike and so full of yourselves.

Nope, I'm not just your usual usmessageboard windbag. I am a highly educated windbag!
And yes i do in fact have my vry own step stool so I can look out over the crowd

Education does NOT impart wisdom. You chastise and mock my use of the phrase 'human capital', but when we look at the 'wisdom' of right wing solutions, it always requires some group of humans to just evaporate. The poor, the pregnant, the elderly... Without those humans voluntarily evaporating, the right wing solution is no different than any of the 'solutions' used throughout history by despot, dictators run totalitarian regimes.

 

[westwall]

I change my style of discourse depending on whom I'm speaking with

So you aren't JUST a windbag...you are a two faced windbag!

At least you bring your own little pedistal around with you.

GooSlurper must be your muse... you are so alike and so full of yourselves.

Nope, I'm not just your usual usmessageboard windbag. I am a highly educated windbag!
And yes i do in fact have my vry own step stool so I can look out over the crowd

Education does NOT impart wisdom. You chastise and mock my use of the phrase 'human capital', but when we look at the 'wisdom' of right wing solutions, it always requires some group of humans to just evaporate. The poor, the pregnant, the elderly... Without those humans voluntarily evaporating, the right wing solution is no different than any of the 'solutions' used throughout history by despot, dictators run totalitarian regimes.

Au contraire my friend. The conservatives for the most part are extremely charitable. Al Gore made 2 million bucks one year and donated all of 500 bucks to charity. Bush and Cheney on the other hand made around 3 or 4 million and donated 1.6 million in that year.

Conservatives believe in helping those who legitimately need help. The liberals on the other hand want EVERYONE to be dependant on the government. They want to tax all of your money away from you and give it to people who could work but choose not to. I have no problem helping those who legitimately need it, I hate having my money taken from me and given to the undeserving.....do you understand that?

I do agree that education does not impart wisdom, but neither does pure emotion. Emotions clutter up the mental landscape. I perceive that the biggest problems with the collectivist mindset is they desire to do good, they just don't know how to. So they trust that the government will do it for them.

Unfortunately the government is made up of people with all the same problems as the corporate executives you hate. There are bureaucrats who revel in making peoples lives miserable. Just go down to any average DMV office or Building Department for an example of that sort of pety tyrant behavior as those particular branches seem to breed them.

As in all things balance is neccessary. Too much federal control leads to abuses. Too little leads to abuses from the other side. That's why local government control works better for the most part. Obviously there are examples where the locals have failed too but they are in general easier to remove from office as well.

 

[HUGGY]

Nope, I'm not just your usual usmessageboard windbag. I am a highly educated windbag!
And yes i do in fact have my vry own step stool so I can look out over the crowd

Education does NOT impart wisdom. You chastise and mock my use of the phrase 'human capital', but when we look at the 'wisdom' of right wing solutions, it always requires some group of humans to just evaporate. The poor, the pregnant, the elderly... Without those humans voluntarily evaporating, the right wing solution is no different than any of the 'solutions' used throughout history by despot, dictators run totalitarian regimes.

Au contraire my friend. The conservatives for the most part are extremely charitable. Al Gore made 2 million bucks one year and donated all of 500 bucks to charity. Bush and Cheney on the other hand made around 3 or 4 million and donated 1.6 million in that year.

Conservatives believe in helping those who legitimately need help. The liberals on the other hand want EVERYONE to be dependant on the government. They want to tax all of your money away from you and give it to people who could work but choose not to. I have no problem helping those who legitimately need it, I hate having my money taken from me and given to the undeserving.....do you understand that?

I do agree that education does not impart wisdom, but neither does pure emotion. Emotions clutter up the mental landscape. I perceive that the biggest problems with the collectivist mindset is they desire to do good, they just don't know how to. So they trust that the government will do it for them.

Unfortunately the government is made up of people with all the same problems as the corporate executives you hate. There are bureaucrats who revel in making peoples lives miserable. Just go down to any average DMV office or Building Department for an example of that sort of pety tyrant behavior as those particular branches seem to breed them.

As in all things balance is neccessary. Too much federal control leads to abuses. Too little leads to abuses from the other side. That's why local government control works better for the most part. Obviously there are examples where the locals have failed too but they are in general easier to remove from office as well.

Bush and Cheney are not charitable people.

Bush and Cheney on the other hand made around 3 or 4 million and donated 1.6 million in that year.


This looks like a good time for a post with link verifying your claim.

 

[gslack]

I have been watching this thread for a while now.. I commented early on and saw that others addressed most of the issues i had with it, and decided I would wait and see how it developed before investing anymore in it..

Well I decided I have had just about all the "mm mm good socialism" propaganda I can stomach....

Socialism as it is portrayed is a pipe dream and only exists in the ideological realm. When placed in reality, no matter how good its claimed intentions, we find it falls flat on its face... Russia, turned its brand of the pipe dream into a police state of the worst kind, enslaving the very people it claimed to make all equal to one another. China just a few years ago killed students who protested it's brand of this ideology. yeah students, the ones who should be most helped by socialism...

You can look across the board at any instance of this kind of government and see a marked difference in what the ideologies claim, and what the realities are for the people it is supposed to empower the most..

Its real easy to say equality for all, but its another thing entirely to make it so. You can claim you desire to see the end of a class structure, but in reality all you do is change the classes names..

What's the most problematic of this system, is the belief that government which owns and controls everything will always do so in your best interests... This is the most asinine and unrealistic idea any conscientious citizen can have. How do you think kings became tyrants so often? How was it Rome desired to conquer other lands, before tending to their own people? How was it the Emperor of Japan came to the point of a usurper? You really think they were born that way? Or is it more likely they grew that way because power is so seductive?

Power begets power, just as greed begets greed. The Kings, Queens or pawns change but the primal desire and latent instincts that comes with any position of power do not... It takes far more than the paltry few thousand years we have had societies to evolve past the instincts we used every second for the hundreds of thousands of years prior.. We just are not ready for this and will not be until we evolve beyond our own instincts. Instincts which were once the reasons we survived, have in evolutionary timescales, become the very problems which prevent any system like socialism..

When we no longer are fueled by our emotions, controlled by our fears, given to vanity, bound by our own egos, and see one another as a person equally we can not even hope to create a real Utopia. Sadly that day is still far off for the lions share of us, and although less far off for some, no one I know of could be ready for it.. Take a look at all the people watching an accident and you will see exactly what I mean here. We haven't even gotten beyond the curiosity in tragedies of others yet, and some of you seem to think we can trust a government ruled by the same type of animal.. That is an unrealistic and dangerous belief to have...

Power no matter how attained seeks to secure and empower itself. It serves no other master no matter how compelling the tale may be. Governments are made up of people. people with fear, doubt, greed, ambition, and limited or motivated by the same desires and weaknesses as the very people themselves.. We see this every day, no matter how upright the politician or person may seem to be, nearly all of them have some issue or problem that shows at least a bit of hypocrisy. And some, show nothing but that kind of hypocrisy. Priests are now viewed with suspect and rightly so, Presidents are shown to be whores for one or another corporation, the media whose very fundamental purpose is supposed to be our safeguards against tyranny are know controlled and owned by those peddlers of tyranny...

All of that, and you tell me socialism is going to make it all better? Yeah, and I will sprout wings soon too...

Along with this there are fundamental flaws in socialism that most who crow about its virtues understand nothing about.. Flaws like its reliance on debt.. if you look into it honestly and with an open mind, you see this all too clearly.. A flaw like the concept of making everyone equal.. You cannot "make" anyone equal, its just not possible. People become equal, it cannot be given and it especially cannot be forced. Equality is simply all things or people being one and the same to another in value and importance. None are viewed or treated as less than, and none are viewed or treated as better than. And most importantly no one can be viewed as less than, while others are forced to treat them better than... That is deferential treatment, and that is NOT equality....

The flaws I mentioned above are but a small portion of the many in any such ideology as socialism.

Capitalism may not be perfect, but it is a reflection of how we think, act, and view each other and the world around us.. It is as evolved as those who wield it. We are still just a few steps from living in caves and worshiping the sun, so our best functional attempts at government by the people and for the people will be only as good as we ourselves are.

Its (capitalism) survival of the fittest in a culture and time that still has that mentality at its core. Socialism on the other hand is the ideal we would like to have if we could only do it as its supposed to be.. In the future, socialism could be a great thing. But here and now it is a placating whitewash which enables those in power to secure and expand their power....

I hope this makes some of you think about this a bit more....

 

[Bfgrn]

Nope, I'm not just your usual usmessageboard windbag. I am a highly educated windbag!
And yes i do in fact have my vry own step stool so I can look out over the crowd

Education does NOT impart wisdom. You chastise and mock my use of the phrase 'human capital', but when we look at the 'wisdom' of right wing solutions, it always requires some group of humans to just evaporate. The poor, the pregnant, the elderly... Without those humans voluntarily evaporating, the right wing solution is no different than any of the 'solutions' used throughout history by despot, dictators run totalitarian regimes.

Au contraire my friend. The conservatives for the most part are extremely charitable. Al Gore made 2 million bucks one year and donated all of 500 bucks to charity. Bush and Cheney on the other hand made around 3 or 4 million and donated 1.6 million in that year.

Conservatives believe in helping those who legitimately need help. The liberals on the other hand want EVERYONE to be dependant on the government. They want to tax all of your money away from you and give it to people who could work but choose not to. I have no problem helping those who legitimately need it, I hate having my money taken from me and given to the undeserving.....do you understand that?

I do agree that education does not impart wisdom, but neither does pure emotion. Emotions clutter up the mental landscape. I perceive that the biggest problems with the collectivist mindset is they desire to do good, they just don't know how to. So they trust that the government will do it for them.

Unfortunately the government is made up of people with all the same problems as the corporate executives you hate. There are bureaucrats who revel in making peoples lives miserable. Just go down to any average DMV office or Building Department for an example of that sort of pety tyrant behavior as those particular branches seem to breed them.

As in all things balance is neccessary. Too much federal control leads to abuses. Too little leads to abuses from the other side. That's why local government control works better for the most part. Obviously there are examples where the locals have failed too but they are in general easier to remove from office as well.

That's wonderful moral chest beating while bashing liberals. Unfortunately, it lacks a grasp of the real world or logic. Yes, liberals want to do good, but they realize that to actually do good is proactive, not reactionary. And liberals don't operate on pure emotion. They care. They care about people and all living things, but they care most about those least able to care for themselves or protect themselves. That does not mean liberals encourage, excuse or promote laziness, but the reality of a lazy mother on welfare is that her children, who are unable to care for themselves or protect themselves are the most vulnerable and the real victims (someone undeserving of their fate).

The scope of human emotions don't include only liberal traits like empathy and compassion. They also include negative traits like fear and paranoia, which is more damaging to humans and much more intrinsic in conservatives. When someone needs help, there is a cause. The best solution is prevention, not charity. How do you help some with cancer from the poisons like benzine and other carcinogens in their drinking water; volunteer to be a pale bearer? How do you help a child with asthma caused by living near a coal burning power plant, donate your lungs to them?

Do the solutions always come from government...NO. Are there problems where the best solution comes from government...YES. There are even problems where the ONLY solution comes from government, whether it be local, state, federal or all of them combined. Our founding fathers had many ideas, theories and beliefs, but what they CREATED, what they DID was 'found' a government. They gave us the vehicle to address problems that effect the citizens of our nation; the collective. Some problems effect a majority, and some effect a minority, but wise men like Thomas Jefferson understood the majority was only as safe as the minority, because by change of circumstances, those problems could become our own.

When you say 'God bless America' and that sentiment and 'emotion' it isn't deeply seeded in caring about fellow AmericANS, then it is not patriotism. It is propaganda.

I wish you had read Robert F. Kennedy's speech. He says so much that we should all agree on.


It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.
Thomas Jefferson

 

[gslack]

Education does NOT impart wisdom. You chastise and mock my use of the phrase 'human capital', but when we look at the 'wisdom' of right wing solutions, it always requires some group of humans to just evaporate. The poor, the pregnant, the elderly... Without those humans voluntarily evaporating, the right wing solution is no different than any of the 'solutions' used throughout history by despot, dictators run totalitarian regimes.

Au contraire my friend. The conservatives for the most part are extremely charitable. Al Gore made 2 million bucks one year and donated all of 500 bucks to charity. Bush and Cheney on the other hand made around 3 or 4 million and donated 1.6 million in that year.

Conservatives believe in helping those who legitimately need help. The liberals on the other hand want EVERYONE to be dependant on the government. They want to tax all of your money away from you and give it to people who could work but choose not to. I have no problem helping those who legitimately need it, I hate having my money taken from me and given to the undeserving.....do you understand that?

I do agree that education does not impart wisdom, but neither does pure emotion. Emotions clutter up the mental landscape. I perceive that the biggest problems with the collectivist mindset is they desire to do good, they just don't know how to. So they trust that the government will do it for them.

Unfortunately the government is made up of people with all the same problems as the corporate executives you hate. There are bureaucrats who revel in making peoples lives miserable. Just go down to any average DMV office or Building Department for an example of that sort of pety tyrant behavior as those particular branches seem to breed them.

As in all things balance is neccessary. Too much federal control leads to abuses. Too little leads to abuses from the other side. That's why local government control works better for the most part. Obviously there are examples where the locals have failed too but they are in general easier to remove from office as well.

That's wonderful moral chest beating while bashing liberals. Unfortunately, it lacks a grasp of the real world or logic. Yes, liberals want to do good, but they realize that to actually do good is proactive, not reactionary. And liberals don't operate on pure emotion. They care. They care about people and all living things, but they care most about those least able to care for themselves or protect themselves. That does not mean liberals encourage, excuse or promote laziness, but the reality of a lazy mother on welfare is that her children, who are unable to care for themselves or protect themselves are the most vulnerable and the real victims (someone undeserving of their fate).

The scope of human emotions don't include only liberal traits like empathy and compassion. They also include negative traits like fear and paranoia, which is more damaging to humans and much more intrinsic in conservatives. When someone needs help, there is a cause. The best solution is prevention, not charity. How do you help some with cancer from the poisons like benzine and other carcinogens in their drinking water; volunteer to be a pale bearer? How do you help a child with asthma caused by living near a coal burning power plant, donate your lungs to them?

Do the solutions always come from government...NO. Are there problems where the best solution comes from government...YES. There are even problems where the ONLY solution comes from government, whether it be local, state, federal or all of them combined. Our founding fathers had many ideas, theories and beliefs, but what they CREATED, what they DID was 'found' a government. They gave us the vehicle to address problems that effect the citizens of our nation; the collective. Some problems effect a majority, and some effect a minority, but wise men like Thomas Jefferson understood the majority was only as safe as the minority, because by change of circumstances, those problems could become our own.

When you say 'God bless America' and that sentiment and 'emotion' it isn't deeply seeded in caring about fellow AmericANS, then it is not patriotism. It is propaganda.

I wish you had read Robert F. Kennedy's speech. He says so much that we should all agree on.


It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.
Thomas Jefferson

Oh bullshit.... All of it is nothing but "we are the good guys" rhetoric.... Grow up dreamer your guys are just as bad as any...

Your "good guys" are just as responsible for this country if not more than anyone else. And to pretend they aren't is utter nonsense..

"liberals care more than you" and "we really do care" all of it pure crap... Stop basing your belief structure on high minded yet empty rhetoric and propaganda for a change.. There is no good guys and bad guys, and no white hats or black. its all shades of grey where they all say one thing and do another.. Where they sell a fantasy and actually give you more government and control.. All of it does nothing but serve itself and further government..

Seriously, get over the bullshit for a change..

 

[Bfgrn]

A drowning victim sees another human being only as land.
Me


One that confounds good and evil is an enemy to good.
Edmund Burke

 

[gslack]

A drowning victim sees another human being only as land.
Me


One that confounds good and evil is an enemy to good.
Edmund Burke

And the bit of white on top of chicken shit is chicken shit too..

No one confounded good and evil, you just wanted to claim one side as better because you like their brand of nonsense...

I can quote too...

"Liberal: a power worshipper without power. "
George Orwell

"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. "
Robert A. Heinlein

"The liberal intelligentsia has allowed its party to become a captive of corporate interests."
Ralph Nader

"Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while maintaining privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists."
Noam Chomsky

I got more if you need them.... The point is any dam fool can quote someone.. It doesn't make any side good or evil....