Cap and trade Questions

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by woodjack, Jul 1, 2009.

  1. woodjack
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    woodjack Senior Member

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    Hello first of all if cap and trade does finally pass the senate, EPA and the Obama Admin said that it will only raise energy rates by $100.00-$200.00 for the average household. Are they talking monthly or yearly? They did not say whether it was monthly or yearly guess they were hoping nobody read between the lines.

    And here is another question. If cap and trade passes can grocery stores and other stores afford to operate 24 hours a day? or will they have to close down in order to conserve their electricty? will this bill be an inconvience bill? closing stores down to conserve electricty would of course put people out of work that work during those hours in those stores or am I wrong? and not to mention if private sector housing electricyty rates go up....what about a grocery store since refrigerators use tons of electricity hmmm so they will have to sell items for alot more ...soo in essence yes your electricty rates will go up but so will your weekly grocery bill....wait I guess there is always fastfood...=) oops I forgot...Obama has already put in for a fast food tax to...

    since Obama seems to have all the answers ...for instance his shovel ready projects for the stimulas bill to add/create 2 million construction jobs....oh now it has changed to save 2 million construction jobs......oops Obama forgot to mention that the states hardest hit by the recession are in the north, michigan pennsylvania ohio wisconsin.........and construction cannot be done in the winter time....so it has changed again to save 2 million temporary/seasonal jobs....=)

    can anyone help and answer my questions? Or am I totally offbase?
     
  2. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    in short WJ, under cap and tax the price of everything (and I do mean everything) that uses any type of fossil fuel derived energy in its production and distribution will rise considerably.
     
  3. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    I suspect that the cap and trade outcomes are as yet quantitativly unknown.

    We can intuit that, all other things being equal (which never happens but that's all we have to work with) that anything which increases the price of energy is going to cause a decline in the quality of life for most of us.

    There's really no getting around that obvious fact.

    Now perhaps, as a result of these taxes, the USA will be motivated (and the research funded) to find us new sources of cheap energy.

    But until that newer cheaper energy is online, I see no way that more expensive energy is NOT going cause a decline in the quality of most of our lives.

    Hell! millions of us already cannot afford to heat our homes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2009
  4. DiamondDave
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    DiamondDave Army Vet

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    Edit... that's more of a pretty picture than the reality

    The reality is that the 'punishment tax' monies will be a newly made currency that is actually taking fund out of the US to be redistributed to some of these other 3rd world countries... moving us toward global wealth redistribution

    Any monies paid in 'punishment' will take away from funds that could already (and do already) go to energy improvement research

    And I would love to see the actual stats where millions can't heat their homes.. but even more will feel the crunch if or when this bullshit gets implemented



    Cap and trade is horrible, just absolutely horrible
     
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  5. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    The bill would give the federal government power over local building codes. It requires that by 2012 codes must require that new buildings be 30 percent more efficient than they would have been under current regulations. By 2016, that figure rises to 50 percent, with increases scheduled for years after that. With those targets in mind, the bill expects organizations that develop model codes for states and localities to fill in the details, creating a national code. If they don’t, the bill commands the Energy Department to draft a national code itself.
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    States, meanwhile, would have to adopt the national code or one that achieves the same efficiency targets. Those that refuse will see their codes overwritten automatically, and they will be docked federal funds and carbon “allowances” — valuable securities created elsewhere in the bill that give the holder the right to pollute and can be sold. The Energy Department also could enforce its code itself. Among other things, the policy would demonstrate the new leverage of allocation of allowances as a sort of carbon currency — leverage this bill would be giving to Congress to direct state behavior. washingtonpost.com.
    The Waxman-Markey Cap and Trade Bill Will Control Housing Standards : The Real Estate Bloggers
     
  6. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    "... the cap and trade bill that passed through congress allows for somebody from the government to come into your house and inspect your windows, appliances, A/C, furnace, and anything else that you can think of to make sure your house is on par with the new national building codes. Not only will they inspect your house, but they will then be able to mandate that you, the seller, provide the necessary remedies regardless of cost, within a certain amount of time BEFORE YOU MAY SELL YOUR OWN HOUSE. So unless you bought a house that is seen as suitable through the eyes of the federal government, you can expect to spend plenty of money remaking your house, even if selling your house is a matter of economic survival for you."
    Cap and trade allows strangers to enter your home; do you meet the national building code standards?

    Do you consider the federal government cheching out your windows and insulation a "a decline in the quality of most of our lives"?
     
  7. Ravi
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    Ravi Diamond Member

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    It worked well with acid rain.

    Acid Rain Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  8. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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  9. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    We shall see. I wouldn't take your word for it though. You are a fear mongerer.

    I emailed Obama yesterday that he/they have done a horrible job selling Cap and Trade to America. Seems more like they rushed it thru over the holidays and the righties are saying that its going to cost each person $1500. The Dems have the majorities now, so the media has to listen to them and report what they say. Why are they not denying the rumors, if they are rumors?

    But this may be just another lie from the right. I hope so. Then they'll have even less credibility, if that is even possible.

    I don't think Republicans will ever change. They just hope/wait for the Dems to fuck up and thats how they win. It isn't like the GOP learned their lesson and now will act better. Instead they stick to their guns, insist tax breaks work and continue to say Dems raised taxes, even if they didn't.

    And the bankers spent $9 trillion in the last 8 months, starting on Bush's watch skull. $9 trillion!!! You're bitching about $700 bill tarp and $700 stimulus and not $9 trillion? Oldest trick in the book. Distract you with the left and steal with the right. And then in 4 years you'll say Obama doubled the debt, when in fact the bankers did it, and they did it half on Bush's watch and half on Obama's, but you'll say it was Obama, I'll say it was Bush, and the bankers will still own all of us and all of this.

    Voters are morons.
     
  10. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    And, on a related front:

    "Calzada says Spain's torrential spending -- no other nation has so aggressively supported production of electricity from renewable sources -- on wind farms and other forms of alternative energy has indeed created jobs. But Calzada's report concludes that they often are temporary and have received $752,000 to $800,000 each in subsidies -- wind industry jobs cost even more, $1.4 million each. And each new job entails the loss of 2.2 other jobs that are either lost or not created in other industries because of the political allocation of capital. Calzada says the creation of jobs in alternative energy has subtracted about 110,000 jobs from elsewhere in Spain's economy.

    Judge for yourself: Calzada's report can be read at http://tinyurl.com/d7z9ye. And at http://tinyurl.com/ccoa5s you can find similar conclusions in "Yellow Light on Green Jobs," a report by Republican Sen. Kit Bond, ranking member of the Subcommittee on Green Jobs and the New Economy."

    George F. Will: If Spain's reported tale is true, green jobs put us in red - Sacramento Opinion - Sacramento Editorial | Sacramento Bee
     

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