Cap and trade in India. No way Jose.

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Naturally the liberal left know all about business and economy, like how to destroy them.

Gateway Pundit: India to Dear Leader: We're Not Interested in Capping Carbon Emissions

Sunday, July 19, 2009
India to Dear Leader: We're Not Interested in Capping Carbon Emissions
Hillary could not persuade the Indian Government to cap their carbon emissions like US democrats are pushing on American businesses.

No dice.



U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, right, and India's Junior Minister for Environment and Forests, Jairam Ramesh, share a light moment upon the former's arrival at the ITC hotel chain's Green Building in Gurgaon, on the outskirts of New Delhi, India,
Sunday, July 19, 2009. (AP)

India's environment minister told visiting Secretary of State Hillary Clinton that the country is not interested in capping carbon emissions.
Bloomberg reported, via LGF:


India will resist pressure from the Obama administration to accept legally binding caps on its carbon emissions, the South Asian nation’s environment minister told visiting Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

“There is simply no case for the pressure that we, who have been among the lowest emissions per capita, face to actually reduce emissions,” Jairam Ramesh said at a meeting today with Clinton in Gurgaon near New Delhi, according to a statement he issued to reporters. “And as if this pressure was not enough, we also face the threat of carbon tariffs on our exports to countries such as yours.”

Clinton is on a state visit to India meant to showcase trade and security ties and seek common ground on climate change and arms control. India has said it will reject any new treaty to limit global warming that makes it reduce emissions because that will undermine the country’s energy consumption, transportation and food security.
Related... It was reported this weekend that House Democratic Leaders bought off key Blue Dogs the night before the cap and trade vote.

The potential cost of the democrat's cap and trade policy is enormous. It will likely cost $700 to $1,400 dollars per family per year. The Department of Energy estimated that a similar bill, S. 2191, the Warner-Lieberman cap-and-trade proposal, will increase the cost of coal for power generation by between 161 percent and 413 percent. Human Events reported that the DOE estimated GDP losses (see chart) over the 21-year period they forecast, at between $444 billion and $1.308 trillion. There are estimates that the bill could increase unemployment by 2.7 percent or about 4 million jobs.

No wonder a developing country like India is not interested.


We live in a society -
"of the Government, by the Government, for the Government".
We are now slaves to A GREEDY government.
 
co2_country_area_2030-max.jpg
 
LOL Thanks Dive, I was getting to that, just setting up the environuts for a serious embarrassment first would have been more fun.
 
LOL Thanks Dive, I was getting to that, just setting up the environuts for a serious embarrassment first would have been more fun.
the only reason his post has any validity is they have a HUGE population

Per capita it's probably about the same based on the totals though. The problem is that the environuts are still using fear to rule, which is by definition, terrorism.
 
LOL Thanks Dive, I was getting to that, just setting up the environuts for a serious embarrassment first would have been more fun.
the only reason his post has any validity is they have a HUGE population

Per capita it's probably about the same based on the totals though. The problem is that the environuts are still using fear to rule, which is by definition, terrorism.
they arent as industrialized as we are
if they put in half the emission controls we do they would put out LESS that we do
 
LOL Thanks Dive, I was getting to that, just setting up the environuts for a serious embarrassment first would have been more fun.

Awww, you guys are so silly. You're the one who should be embarrassed. In the graph that DiveCon just put up, India's emissions are only the little orange bar between China and the Middle East, not EVERYTHING underneath it. Use some common sense guys. *knocks on left temple* I mean, seriously, I'm hoping I'm wrong. I'm really hoping you guys aren't assuming that the graph is saying India's emissions are larger, cuz that really crosses some sort of idiocy threshold. You guys think that INDIA, AFRICA, OR BRAZIL produce MORE EMMISSIONS THAN THE US?????????????? Oh my god... I'm about to burst into laughter. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyway, AS FOR "MY" CALCULATIONS, you can just ask, as DiveCon did, the Energy Information Agency (except actually understanding what you read, durr):

Energy Information Administration - International Carbon Dioxide Emissions and Carbon Intensity Data

Click the chart "Total Emissions from the Consumption of Energy" (this includes Consumption of Petroleum, Natural Gas, and Coal and Flaring of Natural Gas) and you can plainly see (for 2006; Million Metric Tons of Carbon Dioxide):

United States: 5902.75
India: 1293.17

Durr. And if you don't like to do the math, click on "Per Capita Total Carbon Dioxide Emissions from the Consumption of Energy" and you can plainly see (for 2006, Metric Tons of Carbon Dioxide):

United States: 19.78
India: 1.16

ERGO: TWENTY INDIANS produce as much carbon dioxide (GIVE OR TAKE) than ONE AMERICAN. Jesus, the fact that you guys doubt that is astounding. Do you know anything about India? India is insanely poor. Most Indians are RIDICULOUSLY poor. Mostly rural. The vast majority of the population lives on LESS THAN A DOLLAR A DAY. They don't have 3 plasma TVs, fridge, computers, washer, dryer going on and on and on all day consuming energy.

Reuters said:
NEW DELHI, Aug 10 (Reuters) - Seventy-seven percent of Indians -- about 836 million people -- live on less than half a dollar a day in one of the world's hottest economies, a government report said.

The state-run National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector (NCEUS) said most of those living on below 20 rupees (50 US cents) per day were from the informal labour sector with no job or social security, living in abject poverty.

"For most of them, conditions of work are utterly deplorable and livelihood options extremely few," said the report, entitled "Conditions of Work and Promotion of Livelihoods in the Unorganised Sector", seen by Reuters on Friday.

Nearly 80 pct of India lives on half dollar a day | Reuters

And then you guys come in claiming that "Per capita it's probably about the same based on the totals though." Haha, you guys are seriously dense. You should read more about the world before exposing such blatant stupidity. :lol::lol::lol:

You can also look in this, wayyy neater website from the Norwegian University of Science and Technology. They make it pretty:

http://www.carbonfootprintofnations.com/index.php
 
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LOL Thanks Dive, I was getting to that, just setting up the environuts for a serious embarrassment first would have been more fun.

Awww, you guys are so silly. You're the one who should be embarrassed. In the graph that DiveCon just put up, India's emissions are only the little orange bar between China and the Middle East, not EVERYTHING underneath it. Use some common sense guys. *knocks on left temple*

Anyway, you can just ask, as DiveCon did, the Energy Information Agency (except actually understanding what you read, durr):

Energy Information Administration - International Carbon Dioxide Emissions and Carbon Intensity Data

Click the chart "Total Emissions from the Consumption of Energy" (this includes Consumption of Petroleum, Natural Gas, and Coal and Flaring of Natural Gas) and you can plainly see (for 2006; Million Metric Tons of Carbon Dioxide):

United States: 5902.75
India: 1293.17

Durr. And if you don't like to do the math, click on "Per Capita Total Carbon Dioxide Emissions from the Consumption of Energy" and you can plainly see (for 2006, Metric Tons of Carbon Dioxide):

United States: 19.78
India: 1.16

ERGO: TWENTY INDIANS produce as much carbon dioxide (GIVE OR TAKE) than ONE AMERICAN. Jesus, the fact that you guys doubt that is astounding. Do you know anything about India? India is insanely poor. Most Indians are RIDICULOUSLY poor. Mostly rural. The vast majority of the population lives on LESS THAN A DOLLAR A DAY. They don't have 3 plasma TVs, fridge, computers, washer, dryer going on and on and on all day consuming energy.

Reuters said:
NEW DELHI, Aug 10 (Reuters) - Seventy-seven percent of Indians -- about 836 million people -- live on less than half a dollar a day in one of the world's hottest economies, a government report said.

The state-run National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector (NCEUS) said most of those living on below 20 rupees (50 US cents) per day were from the informal labour sector with no job or social security, living in abject poverty.

"For most of them, conditions of work are utterly deplorable and livelihood options extremely few," said the report, entitled "Conditions of Work and Promotion of Livelihoods in the Unorganised Sector", seen by Reuters on Friday.

Nearly 80 pct of India lives on half dollar a day | Reuters

And then you guys come in claiming that "Per capita it's probably about the same based on the totals though." Haha, you guys are seriously dense. You should read more about the world before exposing such blatant stupidity. :lol::lol::lol:

:eusa_eh: Okay ... you embarrassed yourself anyhow. Learn how to read a graph please ... :eusa_whistle:
 
:eusa_eh: Okay ... you embarrassed yourself anyhow. Learn how to read a graph please ... :eusa_whistle:

NO WAY!!!!! Pleeeeeease tell me you're joking. PLEASE!!! I can barely even FATHOM this!!!! You think that the India's carbon emmissions on that graph are EVERYTHING underneath the orange line???

PLEASE, KK, tell me you're joking. Tell me that nobody is this stupid.
 
:eusa_eh: Okay ... you embarrassed yourself anyhow. Learn how to read a graph please ... :eusa_whistle:

NO WAY!!!!! Pleeeeeease tell me you're joking. PLEASE!!! I can barely even FATHOM this!!!! You think that the India's carbon emmissions on that graph are EVERYTHING underneath the orange line???

PLEASE, KK, tell me you're joking. Tell me that nobody is this stupid.

Never said that did I ... :eusa_whistle:

However, using simple math combined with the chart, factor in size and population level ... we are putting out much less than they are.
 
Look, just because I feel bad for you, I'll do you a favour and teach you how to read the graph:

The X axis tracks TOTAL CARBON EMISSIONS of the WORLD. Get it? That is why there are different color bars. Each color bar is stuck on top of another to represent the world total. Each region/country on the opposite side of the X-axis only accounts for the the amount of emissions contained within its color, not everything underneath it. The way you're reading the graph would mean that every other country/region on the graph produces more emissions than the US, which is, well, laughable. And laughable is what happens when you don't pay attention, which I'm sure you've noticed (this is why your previous response was pathetic). Tell me, you think that Australia and New Zealand produce more carbon emissions than the US?? You think South Korea produces 7,000 yearly emissions when the US produces 5,000??

See, now YOU know how to read a graph, and it might save you a whole heap of embarrassment in the future, because now you won't look like an idiot next time that graph shows up.

:)
 
Look, just because I feel bad for you, I'll do you a favour and teach you how to read the graph:

The X axis tracks TOTAL CARBON EMISSIONS of the WORLD. Get it? That is why there are different color bars. Each color bar is stuck on top of another to represent the world total. Each region/country on the opposite side of the X-axis only accounts for the the amount of emissions contained within its color, not everything underneath it. The way you're reading the graph would mean that every other country/region on the graph produces more emissions than the US, which is, well, laughable. And laughable is what happens when you don't pay attention, which I'm sure you've noticed (this is why your previous response was pathetic). Tell me, you think that Australia and New Zealand produce more carbon emissions than the US?? You think South Korea produces 7,000 yearly emissions when the US produces 5,000??

See, now YOU know how to read a graph, and it might save you a whole heap of embarrassment in the future, because now you won't look like an idiot next time that graph shows up.

:)

You must enjoy making a fool of yourself, or you are just too programmed to ignore anything that contradicts your idea of the world that you completely missed my reply to your moronic assumption ... hint: read the response to you just before this moronic assumption.
 
:eusa_eh: Okay ... you embarrassed yourself anyhow. Learn how to read a graph please ... :eusa_whistle:

NO WAY!!!!! Pleeeeeease tell me you're joking. PLEASE!!! I can barely even FATHOM this!!!! You think that the India's carbon emmissions on that graph are EVERYTHING underneath the orange line???

PLEASE, KK, tell me you're joking. Tell me that nobody is this stupid.

Never said that did I ... :eusa_whistle:

However, using simple math combined with the chart, factor in size and population level ... we are putting out much less than they are.

I'm sorry, Kitty, this is simply unbelievable. Did you read my post?? Am I responding to a wall?? I am not interested in your "simple math," dude. I'm interested in facts and figures. I don't need you to incinerate the few working brain cells up there making "calculations." I've posted the FACTS; let me repost them for the slow-minded:

Energy Information Administration - International Carbon Dioxide Emissions and Carbon Intensity Data < This is a LINK.

Click the chart "Total Emissions from the Consumption of Energy" (this includes Consumption of Petroleum, Natural Gas, and Coal and Flaring of Natural Gas) and you can plainly see (for 2006; Million Metric Tons of Carbon Dioxide):

United States: 5902.75
India: 1293.17


Durr. And if you don't like to do the math, click on "Per Capita Total Carbon Dioxide Emissions from the Consumption of Energy" and you can plainly see (for 2006, Metric Tons of Carbon Dioxide):

United States: 19.78
India: 1.16


Can you understand THAT simple math? You do not produce less, in per capita or total terms, as India. Can you get that through your head??
 
NO WAY!!!!! Pleeeeeease tell me you're joking. PLEASE!!! I can barely even FATHOM this!!!! You think that the India's carbon emmissions on that graph are EVERYTHING underneath the orange line???

PLEASE, KK, tell me you're joking. Tell me that nobody is this stupid.

Never said that did I ... :eusa_whistle:

However, using simple math combined with the chart, factor in size and population level ... we are putting out much less than they are.

I'm sorry, Kitty, this is simply unbelievable. Did you read my post?? Am I responding to a wall?? I am not interested in your "simple math," dude. I'm interested in facts and figures. I don't need you to incinerate the few working brain cells up there making "calculations." I've posted the FACTS; let me repost them for the slow-minded:

Energy Information Administration - International Carbon Dioxide Emissions and Carbon Intensity Data < This is a LINK.

Click the chart "Total Emissions from the Consumption of Energy" (this includes Consumption of Petroleum, Natural Gas, and Coal and Flaring of Natural Gas) and you can plainly see (for 2006; Million Metric Tons of Carbon Dioxide):

United States: 5902.75
India: 1293.17


Durr. And if you don't like to do the math, click on "Per Capita Total Carbon Dioxide Emissions from the Consumption of Energy" and you can plainly see (for 2006, Metric Tons of Carbon Dioxide):

United States: 19.78
India: 1.16


Can you understand THAT simple math? You do not produce less, in per capita or total terms, as India. Can you get that through your head??

Finally got you back on track ... took you long enough. Now, factor in what is produced for the world and how much of that is used by who.
 
Finally got you back on track ... took you long enough. Now, factor in what is produced for the world and how much of that is used by who.

... What? I'm sorry, what?? What does that mean?? You were claiming that the US produces less Carbon Dioxide than India. It doesn't. It produces considerably more. The average American produces, on average, 20 times more than the average Indian.

What is this about "what is produced for the world and how much of that is used by who?" [I'm just asking you to explain a bit further].
 
Look, just because I feel bad for you, I'll do you a favour and teach you how to read the graph:

The X axis tracks TOTAL CARBON EMISSIONS of the WORLD. Get it? That is why there are different color bars. Each color bar is stuck on top of another to represent the world total. Each region/country on the opposite side of the X-axis only accounts for the the amount of emissions contained within its color, not everything underneath it. The way you're reading the graph would mean that every other country/region on the graph produces more emissions than the US, which is, well, laughable. And laughable is what happens when you don't pay attention, which I'm sure you've noticed (this is why your previous response was pathetic). Tell me, you think that Australia and New Zealand produce more carbon emissions than the US?? You think South Korea produces 7,000 yearly emissions when the US produces 5,000??

See, now YOU know how to read a graph, and it might save you a whole heap of embarrassment in the future, because now you won't look like an idiot next time that graph shows up.

:)

You must enjoy making a fool of yourself, or you are just too programmed to ignore anything that contradicts your idea of the world that you completely missed my reply to your moronic assumption ... hint: read the response to you just before this moronic assumption.

*Sigh* A "thanks for explaining" would've been ok. I'll let this go for now.
 
No emerging national economy is going to want to impose limits on its growth like cap and trade is going to do, that's for damned sure.

Putting aside the issue of whether it is necessary for a moment, (if we can manage it. I know it's hard but try), making the cost of using energy higher is bound to dampen economic activity.

Now perhaps a mature economy can survive that if it can convince its people that its absolutely necessary. That remains to be seen here in the USA, does it not?

But an emerging economy that is depending on rapid growth to catch up to the rest of the world?

I doubt that Indian politicians (it is a democratic nation, after all) could survive imposing such a plan in their people.

Assuming one believes that cap and trade is necessary, we are facing a world wide tragedy of the commons.

Assuming one believes that cap and trade is a waste of time, then nations like India and China are merely refusing to screw up their rapid growth on a scientific theory.

What do I believe?

I believe that cap and trade is bound to slow down any economy which imposes it, and I believe that the emerging economies will not impose it on themselves.

Further I believe that if the rest of the world won't do it, American won't either.

Now as to whether it will help the environment if we did impose it on ourselves?

I really don't have a clue.

But I am sure if we impose it on America, and the rest of the world doesn't do likewise?

Then the USA is probably wasting its time, too.
 

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