Canada easing medical marijuana laws

[nbdysfu]

1.

2.Phillip Morris pens the "Ciga-joint," which of course includes marijuana, nicotine, and lovely tar. In the first month customers get a free handy dandy "Ciga-roach" lapelle clip. In the second month they come at with a new formula that be smoked twice as frequently. Woody Harrelson becomes a rope manufacturer, and Clinton comes clean about his good ol' college days. Turned out from his previous business of selling 'harmless' marijuana to minors, the 40 year old crack addict makes the move to meth, which becomes the cool street drug of choice that "does no harm to anyone, dude".


Personally neither option is palatable to me. Option 2 might allow us to control the source, but it would simply open up more room for the supply of dangerous drugs on the illegal market, as the 40 year old dealer has to make money to support his alimony and his crack habit and has no interest in legitimate business. Option 1 is just status quo and allows us to think better of ourselves, while others fall through the cracks.


Substances are used because they provide chemical stimulation. If you think pot makes you more productive, you're addicted. I think a convincing cultural shift is needed to take away substance abuse.

Material substance is not a proper avenue for elevating the human mind. The 60's revolution was a lot of other things besides smoking pot, and if you'll notice was one of the few things from that period that failed to take hold in the legitimate ratified mainstream.

Pot should not be used as alcohol is, nor should meth be used as pot is. Nor should alcohol be used as coffee, nor coffee as water.

 

[Jeff K]

Again, there is no proof of physical addiction to marijuana. I smoked marijuana on average every two days during the summer when I had nothing to do. School started and I cut it back to once per month. I currently have not smoked marijuana in over 3 months. Reducing my consumption to zero required no effort other than a consious personal choice.

Also, there are far more than a mere 2 choices my friend. The Netherlands has one of the most liberal drug policies in the world. What has it resulted in? Widespread chaos? Nope. In fact, the Netherlands has one of the lowest per capita use rates of hard drugs (coke, meth, heroin etc) in the whole world. Also, their drug related crime is quite low. Narrowing it down to two situations is rediculous. The drug issue could be handeled in a variety of ways, from government regulation to a simple decriminilization.

Yes, substances are used for chemical stimulation and I do not disagree. I do not think you should pass judgement upon me as being an addict when you are the one declaring that it doesn't matter what I think of your character because of an argument you put forth. I am and have been a productive member of society ever since I started smoking marijuana 6 years ago. I managed to get straight A's in school and get into one of the most prestigous (sp?) programs in Canadian University. While doing this I held down a part time job for 4 years to pay for my university education. This brings me to another fact. Europe has essentially realized that the marijuana user is a productive member of society. Something much of the rest of the world has failed to do so far.

You speak of what I mentioned as a revolution as a mainstream phenomenon. Of course it is not a mainstream phenomenon, it's a sub-culture that still exists widely today.

You say Marijuana should not be used as alcohol, coffee etc. Of course it should not be, it's a totally different case. Alcohol alone has caused more problems in society, more violence against persons and property than marijuana ever has and that cannot be disputed.

 

[jimnyc]

Yummy!

 

[nbdysfu]

Originally posted by Jeff K
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do not think you should pass judgement upon me as being an addict when you are the one declaring that it doesn't matter what I think of your character because of an argument you put forth.
________________________ ________________________

At what point in time previously have I specifically pointed my finger at you, Jeff K? What's to say I haven't been there?


Originally posted by Jeff K
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Alcohol alone has caused more problems in society, more violence against persons and property than marijuana ever has and that cannot be disputed.
________________________ ________________________

Da'n straight.
They said the same thing about alcohol towards the end of prohibition, but then
I guess bootleggers were much more evil than bodegas are.

Originally posted by Jeff K
________________________ ________________________
The Netherlands has one of the most liberal drug policies in the world. What has it resulted in? Widespread chaos? Nope. In fact, the Netherlands has one of the lowest per capita use rates of hard drugs (coke, meth, heroin etc) in the whole world. Also, their drug related crime is quite low.
________________________ ________________________


The Netherlands = the United States? I think not. That's like comparing Ohio to all 49 other states.
Hard drug dealers are where the money and the people they hate are.


Originally posted by Jeff K
________________________ ________________________
Narrowing it down to two situations is rediculous. The drug issue could be handeled in a variety of ways, from government regulation to a simple decriminilization.
________________________ ________________________

However much smoke you blow, it boils down to three basic scenarios: status quo, 'decriminalization,' or finding better, more useful, communal ways of bringing ourselves to nirvana.

Originally posted by Jeff K
________________________ ________________________
[Opening statement]Again, there is no proof of physical addiction to marijuana.
[Supporting statement]Yes, substances are used for chemical stimulation and I do not disagree.
________________________ ________________________

There are plenty of other ways to be addicted besides physical ones, such as the social line that it "mellows me out, dude" or the institutional "it helps me write out mindless drivel that I don't really care about so I can get A's," or the even better "I smoke pot so won't have to drink." Not saying that you're one of these, nor have you directly stated so. Sorry if it offends you.

Originally posted by Jeff K
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You speak of what I mentioned as a revolution as a mainstream phenomenon. Of course it is not a mainstream phenomenon, it's a sub-culture that still exists widely today.
________________________ ________________________
Maybe we're not talking about the same regions, but in the US, it was along with Civil Rights, Women's Rights, environmental protection, cultural experimentation, anti-McCarthyism, peace protests...onandon, many good things happened 40 years ago. The pot subculture in the U.S. today is a joke, it is little more than a parasite that harks back to an era when it was a bad side effect, rather than the major cause it claims to be.

Originally posted by Jeff K
________________________ ________________________
Europe has essentially realized that the marijuana user is a productive member of society.
________________________ ________________________

Another way to put it is that a lot of crafty people have got it in their heads that they can make far more money off their dead-end job workers if they sell them pot. The highly educated will continue to function as you, because you know when to stop. It's just another case of liqour and cigarettes for your already bummed out working stiff compatriots.


If you'll believe me I don't have any problem with pot smokers, merely the people who would supply it to them for their own short-sighted gains.

 

[ProudToBeAJew]

Oh my god you people are nothing but a bunch of hippies! Get some morals, what did you people grow up with no parents?

 

[jon_forward]

 

[jimnyc]

 

[Zhukov]

I think the role of marijuana as a 'gateway drug' originates more from the fact that we are told that all drugs are equally bad, then children smoke the relatively benign marijuana and wonder what other drugs their teachers and parents lied to them about. This, beyond the simple fact of who sells it and how available other types of drugs are, is I believe the basic cause of drug experimentation after trying marijuana. Unfortunately, most drugs are not as benign as weed.

My own opinions about marijuana aside, no level of government has the right to tell me I can't grow a plant, nor does any level of government have the right to tell me what I can and can't set aflame and inhale the combusted byproducts of. Government simply does not have these rights, nor did our founding fathers ever intend it to.

Honestly, step back and consider that soberly: The government outlaws the cultivation of a plant. Based on what authority?

 

[Moi]

Clearly laws involving harmful behaviors, which could only harm the self, should and are allowed by the constitution. That's why I don't understand seatbelt laws but I can understand child restraint ones.

The misappropriation of other's well being by the government is just another misuse of the laws of this government. Blame the welfare state we live in. One of the reasons that people favor drug laws is because they don't want people killing themselves with them and/or paying for their hospital care, food, clothing, shelter, etc. I have to think the cost of the crime surrounding the drug trade, enforcement of drug laws, etc. far outweighs this. In the long run, if someone chooses to do heroin and doesn't have the money to eat, drink or pay for a home, I don't think the government should spend one dime on them nor should we be spending so much fighting drugs.

If using drugs causes someone to do something stupid, let them pay the price.

 

[nbdysfu]

:coffee3:

Oh well, guess my old stance isn't very popular. That's democracy. I have no beef with homegrown or poker night.

My main problem would be Canada hypothetically choosing to make pot legally available to the US market when the US expressly has controls to prevent the use of pot because of its dangers.

Zhukov you make a good point about pot as a "gateway drug." If it is legalized, will that do anything to change the attitude of many people who have been indoctrinated to think it is like any other bad drug? My answer would be no, and I think if pot is legalized, it really needs to be thought out how to convince people that it is in fact different from other drugs that were once its equals. Actually if this is a democracy, then I think that education will have to happen first. Once the knowledge is common, I can't see why not. Then girl scouts will start packing roaches into trailmix and selling it along with cookies .