Can Y'all Help Out a Confused Brother Here?...

[AVG-JOE]

Just say how you feel about a few things and people can stick a label on ya real quick !

I like to drink alcohol conservatively.

I like to be paid liberally for my liberally given labor.

I like to treat my credit cards conservatively.

I like to love my wife liberally.

I like to train my dogs conservatively that I am 'alpha'.

I like to play fetch with them liberally.

I try to eat conservatively.

I like to exercise liberally.

So... Am I liberal or am I conservative?

Politically speaking...

I would like to see professional lobbying a capital crime.

I believe the technology called "abortion" is not going to go away and should be available legally, but We, The People should try to discourage it's use.

I long for the day when at least 85% of us feel we are taxed fairly.

I like paying taxes because I like public roads and bridges. (I like to travel)

I prefer welfare to begging in the streets, but I think education is an even better answer. (Have you been to Mexico?)

So, am I a 'Liberal' or 'Conservative'?

-Joe

 

[Caligirl]

A simple explanation is that Liberals want more government control over our lives and the economy while Conservatives want less.

But the liberals are the ones that don't care if gays get married, it's the conservatives that want to make a law to prohibit it. And so on.

To me, your explanations are bass ackwards. It's Liberals who can't live and let live because they are always pushing their agenda on everyone else by trying to tax and ban any activity they don't like.
Which is most everything.

Imagine if a flier came home in your kids backpack talking about a meeting of wiccans to celebrate the harvest moon. How would that go over with your neighbors? And yet, flyers about bible activities come home in public school backpacks regularly throughout the year.

From my perspective, the conservatives are the ones that want everyone else to be lke them, and no room for other type of thought.

Interesting thread though.

 

[Silence]

To me, your explanations are bass ackwards. It's Liberals who can't live and let live because they are always pushing their agenda on everyone else by trying to tax and ban any activity they don't like.
Which is most everything.

that's an interesting take...

I wonder...when was the last time a liberal attempted to amend the constitution of the united states to ban abortion or gay marriage? just curious...

 

[Mad Scientist]

But the liberals are the ones that don't care if gays get married, it's the conservatives that want to make a law to prohibit it. And so on.

If gays want to get married then they can create their own First Unity Gay Church or whatever and get married there. The problem is gays want established religions to change their long held beliefs and allow gays to marry in their church. Well if you're gonna' do that you may as well allow Satan worshipers in while yer' at it right?
I'm all for Civil Unions by the way, but it seems gays don't want those.
Why is that? Why do they wanna' mess with my religion?

Imagine if a flier came home in your kids backpack talking about a meeting of wiccans to celebrate the harvest moon. How would that go over with your neighbors? And yet, flyers about bible activities come home in public school backpacks regularly throughout the year.

Well if they kept to themselves it wouldn't matter would it? A longtime friend from H.S. is a Wiccan and we get along just fine. She made a good joke about Wiccans once: "Wicca: Masquerading as an Ancient Religion since 1950"! I believe in freedom of religion by the way.

From my perspective, the conservatives are the ones that want everyone else to be lke them, and no room for other type of thought. Interesting thread though.

Well who is behind the "Fairness Doctrine"? Liberals. Who created "Politically Correct" speech? Liberals.

 

[Silence]

Well who is behind the "Fairness Doctrine"? Liberals. Who created "Politically Correct" speech? Liberals.

well I guess if you don't mind all the conservatives running around screaming faggot and n*gger politically correct speech isn't necessary.

 

[Paulie]

By the way, neo-cons, you DO realize that the word "liberty", which is something this country was founded on, has the same root as the word "liberal", right?

As far as what the word truly means?

No, I would say the root points more toward libertarian.

Liberals favor legislation that often times impedes liberty. So do a lot of conservatives, coincidentally.

The only ones who TRUELY support liberty, are libertarians. Most people though, feel as though government should run SOME part of your life, liberal or conservative. I'd definitely say the liberals are worse.

Liberals love moral hazzard, where people are legislated to live a certain lifestyle and not learn from their mistakes. They'd rather us just be blocked from having the opportunity to make those mistakes in the first place.

 

[Mad Scientist]

that's an interesting take...
I wonder...when was the last time a liberal attempted to amend the constitution of the united states to ban abortion or gay marriage? just curious...

Well how did that work out? I mean in the "Arena of Public Ideas", how did that go? Shot down in flames right?
There's a reason you need 2/3 majority of congress and 3/4 of states to pass an amendment rather than a simple majority. Prevents a "Tyranny of the Majority" either Liberal or Conservative.

 

[ABikerSailor]

If gays want to get married then they can create their own First Unity Gay Church or whatever and get married there. The problem is gays want established religions to change their long held beliefs and allow gays to marry in their church. Well if you're gonna' do that you may as well allow Satan worshipers in while yer' at it right?
I'm all for Civil Unions by the way, but it seems gays don't want those.
Why is that? Why do they wanna' mess with my religion?

Well if they kept to themselves it wouldn't matter would it? A longtime friend from H.S. is a Wiccan and we get along just fine. She made a good joke about Wiccans once: "Wicca: Masquerading as an Ancient Religion since 1950"! I believe in freedom of religion by the way.

Well who is behind the "Fairness Doctrine"? Liberals. Who created "Politically Correct" speech? Liberals.

It's not that the gays are looking to change the views of various churches, they just want the same LEGAL RIGHTS that are given to EVERYONE WHO IS MARRIED. What is wrong with wanting to see someone you love who is in the hospital, but you're stopped from seeing them because you don't fit THEIR definition of "family". They don't want to mess with YOUR religion, they want to have the same legal rights as anyone else who is living together in this country.

And, as long as someone who you disagree with "keeps to themselves" you're okay with it? Well what if someone wants YOU to keep to yourself?

 

[Mad Scientist]

Sorry, duplicate posts.

 

[Caligirl]

If gays want to get married then they can create their own First Unity Gay Church or whatever and get married there. The problem is gays want established religions to change their long held beliefs and allow gays to marry in their church. Well if you're gonna' do that you may as well allow Satan worshipers in while yer' at it right?

No, the religious conservatives don't want marriages between gays at the courthouse either.

Well if they kept to themselves it wouldn't matter would it?

My observation has been that unusual religions are not welcomed among fundamentalist christian neighborhoods, but that the religious paperwork of said fundamentalists can go home in every backpack at the public school. Obviously - "if they kept it to themselves it wouldn't matter". Do you see the discrimination here?

It's these sorts of things that give the religious right the label of intolerant.

 

[Mad Scientist]

It's not that the gays are looking to change the views of various churches, they just want the same LEGAL RIGHTS that are given to EVERYONE WHO IS MARRIED. What is wrong with wanting to see someone you love who is in the hospital, but you're stopped from seeing them because you don't fit THEIR definition of "family". They don't want to mess with YOUR religion, they want to have the same legal rights as anyone else who is living together in this country.
And, as long as someone who you disagree with "keeps to themselves" you're okay with it? Well what if someone wants YOU to keep to yourself?

Again, Civil Unions provide for that. Why do gays want to change a Religion?

 

[Caligirl]

What religion are they trying to change, praytell?

 

[Mad Scientist]

No, the religious conservatives don't want marriages between gays at the courthouse either.
My observation has been that unusual religions are not welcomed among fundamentalist christian neighborhoods, but that the religious paperwork of said fundamentalists can go home in every backpack at the public school. Obviously - "if they kept it to themselves it wouldn't matter". Do you see the discrimination here?
It's these sorts of things that give the religious right the label of intolerant.

I'm a religious conservative, I support civil unions. And "tolerance" means "putting up with". It doesn't mean "acceptance". There's a difference.

The only religion I consider "unusual" is the one that's always blowing itself up.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

To me a conservative is someone who passes judgement on others based race, creed, sexual orientation and even religious beliefs.

Conservatives want less government but attempt to force government control into the most personal areas of our lives....

Conservatives spend money on military but not on education, health care, environment and other programs which would enrich the lives of ordinary citizens.

Conservatives believe that if you take care of the top then the bottom will eventually benefit too cuz the top will have more money to spend.

No, no, no. Those are neo-cons, not traditional conservatives.

 

[editec]

To me a liberal is someone who tends to live and let live. They don't prejudge people based on race, creed, sexual orientation.

Liberals believe that for the good of all people we should be willing to sacrafice a little of our own comforts.

Liberals believe that the role of government is to help it's citizens achieve their goals and give a helping hand to those in need.

Liberals are less inclined to spend money on military and more inclined to spend money on education, health care and the environment.

Nice encapsulation of liberalism

I don't know if I can explain what neo-conservatism is, but I know it when I see it, and I don't like it.

I think conservatism and neoconservatism are actually two different tangentially allied philosophies - each coexisting within the unholy allience from hell of the social conservatives, and the Connecticut Yankee crowd Republican Party...basically both Bushes...one conservative, one neo-conservative.

But I'm not privy to the internacine workings of that Party to fully understand who's on top. I presume that this nightmare neocon' POTUS we've got now might give the conservative wing of the Rs some help in getting control of their Party back, if McCain loses.

I certainly hope so.

When I read from people who are conservative on this board, that they think McCain is not a good conservative, I think,

" You're absolutely right. He's not a conservtive at all...He's a neo-con... just like Bush II."

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

In response to gay people getting married, I believe that they should have that right absolutely. And I'm a conservative. If two people want to get married, it has no impact on my life, homosexual or heterosexual.

To get more in depth on the subject, I like Jesse Ventura's idea. I believe it solves the issue of gay marriage perfectly.

"As for gay marriage, a solution I endorse comes from a woman I met at Harvard when I was teaching there. She said, 'Governor, solving the gay marriage question is simple. Government should not acknowledge marriage at all. Government should only acknowledge civil unions.' That way, when you fill out the consent form, your sex doesn't even have to be asked. From that point on, you allow the church - a private institution - to choose whether or not to recognize gay marriage. But when two people are forming a civil union, whether you are heterosexual or homosexual doesn't matter. The government is off the hook. With all the bickering and fighting over gay marriage, that's as simple as it needs to be." - Jesse Ventura

 

[jillian]

If gays want to get married then they can create their own First Unity Gay Church or whatever and get married there. The problem is gays want established religions to change their long held beliefs and allow gays to marry in their church. Well if you're gonna' do that you may as well allow Satan worshipers in while yer' at it right?
I'm all for Civil Unions by the way, but it seems gays don't want those.
Why is that? Why do they wanna' mess with my religion?

You keep saying *they* want to change your religion. How would that be? I don't think people are looking to force churches to marry them. And given that the right to perform a marriage comes from the state, what is your objection to marriages being performed when it's not your church being forced to perform them?

I'm wondering how that changes your "religion".

Well if they kept to themselves it wouldn't matter would it? A longtime friend from H.S. is a Wiccan and we get along just fine. She made a good joke about Wiccans once: "Wicca: Masquerading as an Ancient Religion since 1950"! I believe in freedom of religion by the way.

Why should they "keep to themselves"? Do you hide your relationships?

Well who is behind the "Fairness Doctrine"? Liberals. Who created "Politically Correct" speech? Liberals.

I'd worry less about political correctness and more about people wanting to impose their religious beliefs on others, and control what goes in in others' bedrooms.

Doesn't that have more of an impact on your life than the "fairness doctrine".

(not to mention the fact that the right is always whining about the "liberal media", so why would you have a problem with getting your "side" heard if the media really IS "liberal"?

 

[ABikerSailor]

I'm a religious conservative, I support civil unions. And "tolerance" means "putting up with". It doesn't mean "acceptance". There's a difference.

The only religion I consider "unusual" is the one that's always blowing itself up.

No, you are mad, but obviously no scientist if you think your definitions of tolerance and acceptance are correct.

Acceptance means it's here, like it or not. If you lose your ass in the stock market, you HAVE to accept it, and "put up with" it, until you can figure out how to make your money back. Acceptance is a starting point, not a destination dude.

And.....just exactly WHAT churches do the gays want to change? They're pretty happy with civil unions, because that grants them all the legal rights they want IN THE EYES OF THE GOVERNMENT. The gays don't need to "change" religions, because there are already several out there that are gay friendly.

BTW.....if God loves us all equally, then don't you think that He would make allowances for the gays? The only thing that we were told not to do as humans by God was to not commit sodomy. The rule about not having sex with members of your own gender were in Leviticus which was a manual for the Levites, who were the priests of Israel. Would YOU expect yourself to follow the same guidelines and rules as YOUR preacher?

Nope......if you're against gay unions, then you're probably intolerant of other people in other areas, and that makes you a bigot.

 

[Alpha1]

Marriage is just a plain word used to describe a social commitment...

Its ALWAYS been understood, since its conception, to imply a social commitment between a man and a women.....it was an obvious understanding, that didn't need to be explained to even the stupidest of mankind.....

until todays version of mankind proved to be exceptionally more stupid than previously thought possible....thus demanding the accepted definition be changed to include a social commitment between various entities....

man and man, man and sheep, women and women, women and goat, or for Dem women, women and donkey.....etc....

 

[Ravi]

I am seeing accusations and declarations of being "Conservative" along with accusations and declarations of being "Liberal" tossed around this board a lot.

What the hell do these terms mean to everyone?

I was under the impression that the original meaning behind 'conservative' meant that one was in favor of 'conserving' resources and nature.

I have never grasped a similar concept behind 'liberal'.

Can y'all help out a confused brother here?

-Joe

That's a deep question. Neither candidate represents conservative or liberal, IMO. McCain represents right wing nut job and Obama represents progressive nanny.