can we trust corperations at all?

[SpidermanTuba]

I

Is there any reason to allow any major corperation to operate without intensive oversight and regulations? Can we afford not to keep a short leash on these people.

Corporations are like dogs. They have their uses and benefits - but must be treated like dogs. People who don't treat their dogs like dogs wind up with insolent dogs who walk all over them.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I would trust a corporation about as much as I would trust a politician.... which is not at all.

You trust that BP is doing everything they can to fix their fuck up.

 

[william the wie]

I wasn't speaking of the very near future, apart from gasoline prices. I am not an MBA and I have only a limited grasp of macro-economics. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see we are headed towards a period of terribly high inflation. When it hits, stocks may lose "real value" but the value of money itself will decline, and I don't expect that ON TOP OF THAT, stock prices will bottom out. For that to happen, the publically traded companies in this country would have to lose almost all real value -- I hardly think that's likely.

I am not like so many here, blaming the state of the economy entirely on the President. The best minds in economics STILL cannot agree whether FDR's New Deal alleviated the Great Depression or lengthened it. The President cannot control the factors that drive our economic engine; most likely, I will choose the candidate I vote for in 2012 on basises other than how my stock portfolio is performing.

Very wise of you. This disaster has roots going back to 1932. We only see the major sources though after the LBJ admin. We are facing either one of two options here.

If lucky just 'Stagflation' like the Carter years where we had +20% interest rates and substantial inflation.

If unlucky, we're talking Weimar Republic or Confederate States of America. Total financial and monetary collapse.

You may be in serious error. I caught a Marc Faber video on Lew Rockwell last night and in a throwaway line made in passing he pointed out that foreign holders of dollars sometimes treat those dollars as the bargain basement alternative to gold and silver.

If that is correct, and there is evidence both ways, then the US as the best of the worst may see deflation despite the money supply pumps. That has happened in Japan and it could happen here since it sure looks like DC is following the Japanese recipe. Once the dollar becomes:

A carry trade currency. (used to finance trades in foreign currencies.)

Store of value subject to Gresham's law

Debt destruction/increased savings outpace money creation

Or any partial combination of the above that outpaces money creation the US will go straight into a liquidity trap and inflation becomes impossible while deflation becomes very possible indeed.

 

[Old Rocks]

The disaster in the Gulf was not an accident. An accident in industry is caused by factors unknown prior to the incident. They knew before they put the blowout preventor down that they assembled it from prints that were for a differant model. They knew that other nations, because of prior disasters, required a second valve, but chose not to install one because our nation does not.

After they put the blow preventer down, they knew that it was not functioning correctly. They also knew that they were using casing that was not up to their own standards. It was so stated in an internal memo.

Yet, with all of this, they chose to withdraw the mud before the cement had set up. Very much against Standard Operating Procedures. Do you really believe that anybody in the upper echelon of this administration had any idea that BP was taking these kind of chances?

When you string enough risks together in a very hostile environment, there is not a chance of disaster, there is a certainty of disaster.

The MMS has a generational cozy relationship with the oil corperations. More concerned with enabling rather than oversight. Yes, the present administration should have cleaned house immediatly. But can you imagine the whining, mewling, and bitching by people like yourself had they done so?

Point is, these corperations, whether in the financial realm, or drilling for oil, are taking risks that involve all of us. And, if they screw up in a major fashion, do the individuals running them suffer? You think that they are going to miss a meal? But many people in this nation, and many others, such as Nigeria, surely will.

These pirates simply retreat back into their gated communities, and talk about what ungrateful wretches the rest of us are for not appreciating their sterling values. And people like you, Fritz, echo their bullshit.

 

[California Girl]

I would trust a corporation about as much as I would trust a politician.... which is not at all.

You trust that BP is doing everything they can to fix their fuck up.

They'd be pretty fucking stupid not to..... but I am not stupid enough to trust either corporations or politicians. I leave that to suckers like you.

 

[LuckyDan]

I would trust a corporation about as much as I would trust a politician.... which is not at all.

You trust that BP is doing everything they can to fix their fuck up.

They'd be pretty fucking stupid not to..... but I am not stupid enough to trust either corporations or politicians. I leave that to suckers like you.

This spill is certainly unfortunate. I just hope BP doesn't suffer any PR damage as a result. Could have happened to anybody, really.

 

[HUGGY]

You trust that BP is doing everything they can to fix their fuck up.

They'd be pretty fucking stupid not to..... but I am not stupid enough to trust either corporations or politicians. I leave that to suckers like you.

This spill is certainly unfortunate. I just hope BP doesn't suffer any PR damage as a result. Could have happened to anybody, really.

Ya...I spilled some coffee this morning...I know what ya mean...

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I would trust a corporation about as much as I would trust a politician.... which is not at all.

You trust that BP is doing everything they can to fix their fuck up.

They'd be pretty fucking stupid not to.....

Then by your own standards they are pretty fucking stupid.

but I am not stupid enough to trust either corporations or politicians. I leave that to suckers like you.

You're the one trusting a corporation you've already admitted is pretty fucking stupid.

 

[California Girl]

You trust that BP is doing everything they can to fix their fuck up.

They'd be pretty fucking stupid not to.....

Then by your own standards they are pretty fucking stupid.

but I am not stupid enough to trust either corporations or politicians. I leave that to suckers like you.

You're the one trusting a corporation you've already admitted is pretty fucking stupid.

To intelligent people, who judge on fact instead of hysteria, I have no evidence that BP are not doing what they are obligated to do.... unlike TransOcean who have already tried to limit their responsibility by referencing a law dating back over a century. You seem unable to understand that making an informed opinion, based on evidence, is not support for a corporation, it is just an intelligent, rational response.

What I do have evidence for is the complicity of the US Government. Those guys that you seem to think are 'saving the coast from the evil corporation'. Those guys - who you pay to protect you - have done jack shit.... despite the tough talk. Yet you still worship the messiah.... you are welcome to do so.... some of us are not that stupid.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I have no evidence that BP are not doing what they are obligated to do....

They are supposed to be spilling 50,000 bbl a day?

unlike TransOcean who have already tried to limit their responsibility by referencing a law dating back over a century.

BP is trying to limit their responsibility by moving the case to an oil friendly judge in houston you dumb bitch.

 

[editec]

Assuming that everything is on the up and up, (that is to say, the managment isn't stealing from the stockholders) we can trust corporations to pursue their prime directive which is to increase the value of their holdings.

We can pretty much assume that they will do so regardless of how their actions effect the society as a whole, too.

That is their job, and I do not fault them for doing so, either.

It is up to US, and our government officials, to see to it that corporations zeal to advance their net worth does not lead to outcomes that cause problems for the society at large.

Of course, we too often find that instead of our government protecting society as a while, it is pandering to the needs of those corporations.

This is what happens when our SCOTUS decides that corporations have civil rights and that money = free speech, folks.

Corporations (some of them) have enormous power, and they can live (theorectically) forever.

So naturally, in the longer run, their influence over society far exceeds their value to that society.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Assuming that everything is on the up and up, (that is to say, the managment isn't stealing from the stockholders) we can trust corporations to pursue their prime directive which is to increase the value of their holdings.

We can pretty much assume that they will do so regardless of how their actions effect the society as a whole, too.

That is their job, and I do not fault them for doing so, either.

It is up to US, and our government officials, to see to it that corporations zeal to advance their net worth does not lead to outcomes that cause problems for the society at large.

Of course, we too often find that instead of our government protecting society as a while, it is pandering to the needs of those corporations.

This is what happens when our SCOTUS decides that corporations have civil rights and that money = free speech, folks.

Corporations (some of them) have enormous power, and they can live (theorectically) forever.

So naturally, in the longer run, their influence over society far exceeds their value to that society.

I agree with all points.

 

[Big Fitz]

You may be in serious error. I caught a Marc Faber video on Lew Rockwell last night and in a throwaway line made in passing he pointed out that foreign holders of dollars sometimes treat those dollars as the bargain basement alternative to gold and silver.

Oh I hope I am wrong and everything will be far better than I expect.

That being said you're right, currently and in the past foreign holders of dollars do use it as a style of 'commodity' because the value of the dollar was safe. The name of the US government currency had value unto itself. I remember back around 1994 when they made the new 3/4 off center president dollars. Foreign nationals freaked out and started trading in their $100 bills like crazy because they believed their old dollars would be worthless. The viewed the currency change as sort of like the Military changing scrips. This caused a small bump in the currency markets, but the treasury got it calmed down when they did ad campaigns in foreign nations letting holders of the dollar know it would still be honored. The dollar had an intrinsic value on name and credit only, and it was strong.

Where I differ is that I am of the opinion the value and name credit is about to fail for the US. Yes it will still be a dollar, but it's value in trade will plummet because the government is going to be approaching a point where it must choose to default or monetize the debt. When it does that, inflation will spike, value of the dollar will plummet. People will see that even their paper dollars will trade for less and less and look to unload them quick increasing the issue of too many dollars in the market and no ability to draw them back in thanks to outstanding debt being paid with them. My point is that we're at the top of a debt/value spiral that once started will be difficult to impossible to stop because everyone will be jumping out before it hits worthlessness.

I pray I'm wrong. I really really do. But for what I see to not come true, we must endure very painful universal budget slashing and then a significant budgetary freeze. That would save us in one swell foop. If you told the fed all programs created after 2004 are hereby frozen or cancelled until further notice, and then cut REAL spending value by 30-50% across all budgets at all layers of government currently running a deficit, we could get out of this hole in less than a decade.

Greece is being advised to privatize many central pillars of their quasi socialist system. Health Care, transit/trucking among others. We need to get a jump on this.

It seems that we agree, except in how likely we are to enter the liquidity trap and whether or not the dollar will maintain it's value even if the worst happens. I hope you're right Madeline. I really really do.

 

[Big Fitz]

The disaster in the Gulf was not an accident.

Right. They meant to do that. It's a conspiracy I tell you!

Credibility go down the hooooooooollllllee.