Can US Manufacturing Survive?

[Big Fitz]

US Manufacturing used to be 28% of the US economy, and now its about 12% and dropping. Manuacturing creates wealth, the "service economy" is a hoax created by Wall Street to justify moving jobs overseas. I also blame unions in addition to Wall Street for killing industries like the automotive industry. Its a tough problem, but if we're ever going to get the unemploymemnt rate down, the unwashed masses need jobs, and I don't think that picking produce will pay the bills.

Manufacturing continues to shrink as a percentage of U.S. economic activity. | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com

So the poll question is "can US manufacturing survive & how?"

Couple points

1. The service economy should not include intellectual 'manufacturing'. Ideas and problem solving are able to be viewed in some form as production and an aspect of manufacturing. Working at Arby's is not. That's infrastructure in one form.

2. When looking at our production, take into account productivity. Until recently we still were the most productive nation in the world for manufacturing, and still lead in productivity in many other ways. We could sustain such a drop in the size of manufacturing because of this.

3. The economy is allowed to specialize into non-essential industry efforts and service because we have been so productive in essential arenas such as manufacturing, mining/resource gathering and agriculture.

Now to cause a rebound in this nation's economy and unemployment, it's very simple actually. You must encourage business to invest and make possible the safest place to make the largest profits. Capital flows to the gravity of greatest return on investment. This is a universal economic fact. If business can succeed and get greater benefit outside the US, it will drain away like water off a steep hill. And just like water, you either need to put a dam around it or dig it out and make a lake for water to flow into.

What makes an area good for investment? Stable financial laws and low taxes for starters. Right now the US government is acting like robber barons. Gas taxes equal quadruple oil profits. They're penalizing profits of every business except those who are established with special exemptions and protectionist deals to government. All this has to go. Level playing fields, end subsidies and low taxes takes care of most of it.

We also have to worry about three other problems in this regard: Overregulation by overzealous bureaucrats, greedy unreasonable unions and Lawyers. Overregulation stops good investment and productive enterprise by making it unprofitable or illegal for no viable reason. Cost effectiveness should be enforced and balanced against safety. Unreasonable unions are ones that won't negotiate in a manner for the best interests of both the company AND workers. If the company is weakened due to exhorbident demands by greedy unions harm the workers ultimately (GM/Chrysler) If the union does not look to the health of the company as well as the advantage of the worker, they are a cancer that will ultimately kill the company, themselves and their workers off. Then there's the lawyers. These profiteers of pain know who's pocket to pick. They curry up lawsuits whether real or imagined and go for jackpot justice with no real threat of risk on their part. You need to get these three threats under control as well.

 

[2Parties]

How does a family where the father is an accountant and the mother is a nurse drive a car, live in a house, and own appliances when none of them manufacture anything?

Does this family need to start manufacturing to make the trade "balance" out?

Excellent posts by eagleseven.

 

[rdean]

We are moving towards a three tier society.

The top tier is about 1% and has 90% of the wealth. This will be a class of corruption and leisure. They will continually fall and be replaced as drugs and the effects of too much money and the lack of talent or skill take their toll.

You will have the bottom class made up of the majority of Americans. They will cling to their guns and their religion. Live in trailers or cars or on the street. Lack education and enjoy very poor health. Their jobs will be taken over by automation and they will be used as political pawns and cannon fodder. Republicans do that now.

Finally, a very small middle class where the remnants of productivity will remain. This class will be made up of engineers, scientists, computer programmers, architects, doctors. Just like today, these are the people who will develop new crops and medicine, machines and weapons. They will support an idle rich. Eventually, it is this class who will be the power behind the power.

 

[eagleseven]

This class will be made up of engineers, scientists, computer programmers, architects, doctors. Just like today, these are the people who will develop new crops and medicine, machines and weapons. They will support an idle rich. Eventually, it is this class who will be the power behind the power.

Who is John Galt?

 

[Synthaholic]

National trade figures are simply an amalgamation of millions of individual trade balances.

True but knowing that does not make the trade imbalance any better.

Knowing that makes you realize that a national trade balance has no direct effect upon your life. It is an effect, not a cause.

A trade imbalance can be caused by many different things...in our case, it is the result of our entire population spending more than it can earn.

Not exactly. If we all bought US manufcatured goods instead of foreign made goods what happens to your argument? Why don't politicians make tax breaks for creating US manufacturing jobs?

Better to raise the import fees on goods made overseas to the point that it would cost to manufacture in the U.S. Take away the incentive to move jobs abroad.

 

[Big Fitz]

We are moving towards a three tier society.

The top tier is about 1% and has 90% of the wealth. This will be a class of corruption and leisure. They will continually fall and be replaced as drugs and the effects of too much money and the lack of talent or skill take their toll.

You will have the bottom class made up of the majority of Americans. They will cling to their guns and their religion. Live in trailers or cars or on the street. Lack education and enjoy very poor health. Their jobs will be taken over by automation and they will be used as political pawns and cannon fodder. Republicans do that now.

Finally, a very small middle class where the remnants of productivity will remain. This class will be made up of engineers, scientists, computer programmers, architects, doctors. Just like today, these are the people who will develop new crops and medicine, machines and weapons. They will support an idle rich. Eventually, it is this class who will be the power behind the power.

Da! We weel repleecate ze old country here at last and be Wictorious!
<play soviet national anthem>

 

[Big Fitz]

Knowing that makes you realize that a national trade balance has no direct effect upon your life. It is an effect, not a cause.

A trade imbalance can be caused by many different things...in our case, it is the result of our entire population spending more than it can earn.

Not exactly. If we all bought US manufcatured goods instead of foreign made goods what happens to your argument? Why don't politicians make tax breaks for creating US manufacturing jobs?

Better to raise the import fees on goods made overseas to the point that it would cost to manufacture in the U.S. Take away the incentive to move jobs abroad.

that used to be what paid for this country entirely till free market globalists took over the state and treasury deparments. A good solid purge of those bureaucracies would do this nation a world of good. Time to quit trying to be the world's friend and do what's right for us at home.

 

[Douger]

National trade figures are simply an amalgamation of millions of individual trade balances.

True but knowing that does not make the trade imbalance any better.

Knowing that makes you realize that a national trade balance has no direct effect upon your life. It is an effect, not a cause.

A trade imbalance can be caused by many different things...in our case, it is the result of our entire population spending more than it can earn.

Not exactly. If we all bought US manufcatured goods instead of foreign made goods what happens to your argument? Why don't politicians make tax breaks for creating US manufacturing jobs?

The US doesn't manufacture anything. What's to buy ? A piece of shit Harley ?

 

[B. Kidd]

Great post Big Fitz.
Higher corporate taxes (Fed. and state combined) + overregulation continues to inhibit our manufacturing competitiveness in the global economy. Expect more manufacturing to flee to 'greener pastures', unless the above changes for the better.

 

[B. Kidd]

Manufacturing Trivia sidebar: 'New Balance' is the ONLY remaining sneakers solely(pun?) manufactured in the U.S..

 

[uscitizen]

Great post Big Fitz.
Higher corporate taxes (Fed. and state combined) + overregulation continues to inhibit our manufacturing competitiveness in the global economy. Expect more manufacturing to flee to 'greener pastures', unless the above changes for the better.

Of course labor rates about 10% of those in the USA have nothing to do with manufacturing moving offshore?

Labor rates cost US manufacturing far more than taxes do.

 

[Douger]

Manufacturing Trivia sidebar: 'New Balance' is the ONLY remaining sneakers solely(pun?) manufactured in the U.S..

And the only ones worth a damn.
HOWEVER.
murkinz B lubbin dat WalMart chit.

 

[B. Kidd]

Great post Big Fitz.
Higher corporate taxes (Fed. and state combined) + overregulation continues to inhibit our manufacturing competitiveness in the global economy. Expect more manufacturing to flee to 'greener pastures', unless the above changes for the better.

Of course labor rates about 10% of those in the USA have nothing to do with manufacturing moving offshore?

Labor rates cost US manufacturing far more than taxes do.

True, true. Labor costs remain #1 with taxes/regulations being the #2 incentive for offshore manufacturing.
What looms oninous, is that offshore manufacturing labor costs are projected to remain relatively low/or not exceedingly increase for the next 20 years; therefore, remains an incentive.

 

[uscitizen]

Great post Big Fitz.
Higher corporate taxes (Fed. and state combined) + overregulation continues to inhibit our manufacturing competitiveness in the global economy. Expect more manufacturing to flee to 'greener pastures', unless the above changes for the better.

Of course labor rates about 10% of those in the USA have nothing to do with manufacturing moving offshore?

Labor rates cost US manufacturing far more than taxes do.

True, true. Labor costs remain #1 with taxes/regulations being the #2 incentive for offshore manufacturing.
What looms oninous, is that offshore manufacturing labor costs are projected to remain relatively low/or not exceedingly increase for the next 20 years; therefore, remains an incentive.

Yep, the reason we will see no real recovery. We can only hope we do not drop too far.

 

[kyzr]

US Manufacturing used to be 28% of the US economy, and now its about 12% and dropping. Manuacturing creates wealth, the "service economy" is a hoax created by Wall Street to justify moving jobs overseas. I also blame unions in addition to Wall Street for killing industries like the automotive industry. Its a tough problem, but if we're ever going to get the unemploymemnt rate down, the unwashed masses need jobs, and I don't think that picking produce will pay the bills.

Manufacturing continues to shrink as a percentage of U.S. economic activity. | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com

So the poll question is "can US manufacturing survive & how?"

Couple points

1. The service economy should not include intellectual 'manufacturing'. Ideas and problem solving are able to be viewed in some form as production and an aspect of manufacturing. Working at Arby's is not. That's infrastructure in one form.

2. When looking at our production, take into account productivity. Until recently we still were the most productive nation in the world for manufacturing, and still lead in productivity in many other ways. We could sustain such a drop in the size of manufacturing because of this.

3. The economy is allowed to specialize into non-essential industry efforts and service because we have been so productive in essential arenas such as manufacturing, mining/resource gathering and agriculture.

Now to cause a rebound in this nation's economy and unemployment, it's very simple actually. You must encourage business to invest and make possible the safest place to make the largest profits. Capital flows to the gravity of greatest return on investment. This is a universal economic fact. If business can succeed and get greater benefit outside the US, it will drain away like water off a steep hill. And just like water, you either need to put a dam around it or dig it out and make a lake for water to flow into.

What makes an area good for investment? Stable financial laws and low taxes for starters. Right now the US government is acting like robber barons. Gas taxes equal quadruple oil profits. They're penalizing profits of every business except those who are established with special exemptions and protectionist deals to government. All this has to go. Level playing fields, end subsidies and low taxes takes care of most of it.

We also have to worry about three other problems in this regard: Overregulation by overzealous bureaucrats, greedy unreasonable unions and Lawyers. Overregulation stops good investment and productive enterprise by making it unprofitable or illegal for no viable reason. Cost effectiveness should be enforced and balanced against safety. Unreasonable unions are ones that won't negotiate in a manner for the best interests of both the company AND workers. If the company is weakened due to exhorbident demands by greedy unions harm the workers ultimately (GM/Chrysler) If the union does not look to the health of the company as well as the advantage of the worker, they are a cancer that will ultimately kill the company, themselves and their workers off. Then there's the lawyers. These profiteers of pain know who's pocket to pick. They curry up lawsuits whether real or imagined and go for jackpot justice with no real threat of risk on their part. You need to get these three threats under control as well.

Very well written post, especially since it looks like you seem to be practical in your rationale'. These are the main points that I can comment on:

1. Intellectual production is not "manufacturing". Making widgets that other people around the globe buy is manufacturing. The key is trade balance and who ends up with more wealth.
2. productivity comes out in the wash of trade balance. If 10 Americans make goods worth the same as 100 Chinese, and the Chinese get 10% of the wages, the products should be about the same cost. The US needs to be more productive than the lower cost labor areas, or we lose wealth.
3. Totally agree with your "business flows to profits" corallary. The key is to get the government to manage the economy to help companies grow profits. The problem to date is that the morons/whores create tax breaks to move jobs overseas, bribery works.
4. I disagree with the "overregulation" issue, I prefer smart/effective regulation to "no regulation". Just think about "energy costs necessarily need to skyrocket" policy to address global warming as an example. I also want illegals gone to help lift wages.

Nice post, lets hope the government does more than waste stimulus money.

 

[Douger]

OK murkinz.
Wipe the slobber from your chin, both of them, in some cases three, and listen up.
There is no recovery. EVER.
Those of you in the stock markets don't be too nervous.
New startups will come and go and continue to move their ops overseas.

The Faux ' rejoice" will be " HP hired 2200 people in March and profits and stocks are up 66%"
What they will NEVER tell you, it is because they opened a plant in Bangladesh or Costa Rica.

Once you understand that you'll be on your way to being unmurkin.
A real, original American.

 

[Douger]

Here, idiots.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUd5DUlVdD4]YouTube - &#x202a;Osprey's history: an interview with owner and founder Mike Pfotenhauer&#x202c;&lrm;[/ame]

 

[rdean]

Specifically, President Obama highlighted two areas where Republicans are causing a delay: a filibuster of passing unemployment benefits, and a small business aid bill that has yet to be called for a vote in the Senate.

On the small business aid bill, Obama said the &#8220;partisan minority&#8221; is using procedural tactics to block an up-or-down vote.

&#8220;Consider what that obstruction means for our small businesses -- the growth engines that create two of every three new jobs in this country,&#8221; Obama said. &#8220;A lot of small businesses still have trouble getting the loans and capital they need to keep their doors open and hire new workers.&#8221;

Obama: GOP Filibustering Recovery - Political Punch

Democrats appear to have lined up 58 votes, but in the Senate, 42 is greater than 58, even when our economic health is on the line.

In the real world, this means millions of jobless Americans will lose their already-modest benefits, and hundreds of thousands of workers will be laid off over the next year, including teachers, police officers, and firefighters. All of this will happen because Republicans are more concerned about the deficit -- a deficit they created under Bush/Cheney -- than the economy.

The Washington Monthly

The small business tax cuts in the bill include breaks for restaurant owners and retailers who remodel their stores or build new ones. Other businesses could more quickly recover the costs of capital improvements through depreciation. Long-term investors in some small businesses would be exempt from paying capital gains taxes.

Republicans block small business lending bill | AP Business News - The News Tribune

------------------------------

As bad as things are now, they will be worse after November.

Republicans will never help this country. They proved that during the last administration. They stand in the way of everything for political gain and to savage the American Middle Class.

It's not like they've trying to hide it. The revel in it and their base agrees. Especially if they think it will bring down the "black" man living in the "WHITE" House.

 

[B. Kidd]

rdean,
spend, cut, spend, cut, spend, cut.......
As far a manufacturing is concerned, we are between a rock and a hard place for longer term.
It's been a bi-partisan effort to lead us to this day.
As long as our system continues to basically short-term economically plan, this swamp remains full.

 

[uscitizen]

Great post Big Fitz.
Higher corporate taxes (Fed. and state combined) + overregulation continues to inhibit our manufacturing competitiveness in the global economy. Expect more manufacturing to flee to 'greener pastures', unless the above changes for the better.

Of course labor rates about 10% of those in the USA have nothing to do with manufacturing moving offshore?

Labor rates cost US manufacturing far more than taxes do.

True, true. Labor costs remain #1 with taxes/regulations being the #2 incentive for offshore manufacturing.
What looms oninous, is that offshore manufacturing labor costs are projected to remain relatively low/or not exceedingly increase for the next 20 years; therefore, remains an incentive.

Material cost/energy costs is the second highest costs of manyfacturing in the USA.

Which in some industries is higher than labor costs.