Can theft be moral?

[Diuretic]

In societies where private property is a cultural feature there is usually a legal prohibition against taking the private property of someone else without their consent. This is usually called "theft". Different societies have different defintions of theft which makes it a bit difficult to try and work out whether an act of theft can be moral.

In fact it could be a stinking big red herring to try and work out if theft can be moral if we're using legal concepts to try and decide the question. The law isn't so much about morality as practicality.

The primary concern of a court is this - is the defendant guilty?

There's usually no examination of the morality of an alleged act or series of acts. The search is on for admissible evidence which will allow the court to draw the conclusion that the defendant did, beyond a reasonable doubt, in fact carry out those actions which are alleged in the indictment.

If the actions can't be excused by a general or specific defence then the defendant will be found guilty. The court can then consider the circumstances of the defendant's actions (among other things) in deciding on penalty. There is no examination of morality.

So in a sense the crime of theft falls outside the "is it moral" discussion if the discussion is only grounded on whether or not the crime of theft was committed.

So it's probably necessary to look at attendant circumstances to decide of a series of actions which would be described by a court as a crime can in fact be moral when examined outside of the legal framework.

Can taking another person's property without their permission ever be moral.

I say it can be moral.

 

[LOki]

In societies where private property is a cultural feature there is usually a legal prohibition against taking the private property of someone else without their consent.

Agreed. There is a reason for this--property is an extension of someone's life; it is the product of someones merits, and actions. Even in societies where the notion of property is somewhat vague, the notion that taking another person's life is wrong in principle, is usually not quite so vague.

This is usually called "theft". Different societies have different defintions of theft which makes it a bit difficult to try and work out whether an act of theft can be moral.

Let's then simplify it by using your definition: "...taking the private property of someone else without their consent."

In fact it could be a stinking big red herring to try and work out if theft can be moral if we're using legal concepts to try and decide the question. The law isn't so much about morality as practicality.

Good. So let dispense with "legalities" since they don't neccessarily address the morality of the issue.

The primary concern of a court is.... [SNIPPED the irrelevent discussion of courts, since we're no longer discussing the legality of theft, but rather the morality of it.]

Can taking another person's property without their permission ever be moral.

I say it can be moral.

You've stated this elswhere, but you still have failed to expain how so.

 

[editec]

How about if the property you're stealing was stolen to begin with?

Is it theft then?

 

[Ravi]

Can theft be moral?

It depends.

 

[LOki]

How about if the property you're stealing was stolen to begin with?

Irrelevent. If the stolen property is not yours, then you're still stealing; and if it was, then you're not stealing.

Is it theft then?

Of course it is--unless you're simply taking back what is rightfully yours anyway.

 

[LOki]

Can theft be moral?

It depends.

On what?


And if you say "context"; on what context, exactly?

 

[Ravi]

On the circumstances. Theft to save someone's life...I would consider moral. Theft for nothing but personal gain...I would consider immoral.

Is it always immoral in your view?

 

[editec]

Irrelevent. If the stolen property is not yours, then you're still stealing; and if it was, then you're not stealing.

Of course it is--unless you're simply taking back what is rightfully yours anyway.

Irrelevant if the stolen property was stolen from you father, grandfather and so forth?

What if it was stolen legally, but stolen nevertheless?

those of you seeking one-liner philosophies to guide you are rather silly, I think.

The world is complex and we cannot be guided by simplistic slogans however noble their sentiment appears to simpletons.

 

[Paulie]

Can theft be moral?

It depends.

Oh my goodness, such an insightful display of wisdom! The epidome of enlightenment! Stop Rav, you're making the rest of us look bad!

 

[Paulie]

On the circumstances. Theft to save someone's life...I would consider moral. Theft for nothing but personal gain...I would consider immoral.

Is it always immoral in your view?

If everyone went around stealing other people's shit to "save someone's life", we'd have one hell of a mess Rav.

 

[Ravi]

Oh my goodness, such an insightful display of wisdom! The epidome of enlightenment! Stop Rav, you're making the rest of us look bad!

Do I have to explain EVERYTHING to you?

It was a joke based on what was said on RGS's thread.

I doubt I could possibly make you look worse than you already do, doosh.

 

[jillian]

On what?


And if you say "context"; on what context, exactly?

I don't know... I think there are times when theft is absolutely necessary. Does that make it moral? The sewer rats in the warsaw ghetto smuggled stolen food into the ghetto from the outside... it kept a lot of people alive.

Was it justified? probably the same as any other self-defense or necessity argument. Was it moral? I think so because I think what was done in the first place was immoral. But there may be a difference between necessity and morality.

 

[Ravi]

If everyone went around stealing other people's shit to "save someone's life", we'd have one hell of a mess Rav.

Yes, of course, you can actually make yourself look worse.

 

[Paulie]

Do I have to explain EVERYTHING to you?

It was a joke based on what was said on RGS's thread.

I doubt I could possibly make you look worse than you already do, doosh.

Chill girl, I don't always use smily's for sarcasm's sake.

I thought you knew me.

 

[Wow]

How about if the property you're stealing was stolen to begin with?

Is it theft then?

If you leave with lead in your head, it's stealing.

 

[Truthmatters]

If you steal the gun of a man about to commit suicide with it that is moral.

If you steal food to survive that is not immoral.

If you flush the prescription medicine of a friend who is addicted that is moral.

Thieft can be moral if it has a mitigating circumstance that involves the protection of life.

 

[AllieBaba]

Theft is never moral.
But lefties will justify it anyway, because they think if THEY determine it's "ok" to steal, then it's suddenly moral.

 

[AllieBaba]

If you steal the gun of a man about to commit suicide with it that is moral.

If you steal food to survive that is not immoral.

If you flush the prescription medicine of a friend who is addicted that is moral.

Thieft can be moral if it has a mitigating circumstance that involves the protection of life.

It is immoral. "Stealing" the gun of a man about to commit suicide is not theft. You aren't taking it for yourself...you're preventing him from accessing his own weapon.

Same with flushing prescription meds. That isn't theft, you aren't taking it for yourself or your own gain.

Stealing food when you're starving IS still theft, and it is immoral. You may be stealing from someone who needs the food more than you do, you may be stealing from a company which fires workers who lose revenue, a hundred different things. If you're starving and you steal food, it's still stealing..and in the countries where people ARE starving and steal food, it can be punishable by a variety of very unpleasant methods, up to death.

Theft is never, ever moral. This is another example of lefties trying to justify their own reprehensible behavior and attitudes about their right to manage other people's lives and property, without permission and without due process.

 

[Paulie]

Theft is never moral.
But lefties will justify it anyway, because they think if THEY determine it's "ok" to steal, then it's suddenly moral.

Yep. All lefties approve of theft, and all righties do not. Absolutely.

 

[AllieBaba]

Though you might want to be careful about flushing those prescription meds....some addicts actually die if they cut off those meds cold turkey. Then you'd be a lot less sympathetic to a jury.