Bull Ring Can the universe be used as evidence for a creator. ding vs Soupnazi630

Discussion in 'The Bull Ring' started by ding, Mar 22, 2018.

  1. Tijn Von Ingersleben
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    Tijn Von Ingersleben Gold Member

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    You know what...for sake of brevity and simplicity...I will agree. We live in a physical world of cause and effect...sure. Those things that I can observe in my world are the result of cause and effect. Yes.
     
  2. ding
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    ding Confront reality

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    2. We live in a universe where everything happens for a reason according to the rules that govern nature.

    Right or wrong?
     
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  3. frigidweirdo
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    frigidweirdo Platinum Member

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    Well I've already discussed this.

    You don't know if these things even exist in the manner that you believe they exist.

    What is the universe? Until you can answer that question, how are you supposed to know whether the stuff in it is what you think it is.

    It's like saying we have this box. We're not sure if the box is a refrigerator, a cupboard, a cardboard box or what.

    Inside the box is some stuff, we're not sure what's in the box either. We think we know what the box is, we think we know what's in the box, but we can't tell because we're inside the box, and the box is dark inside.

    Until we can see the box from the outside, and open the door and turn the light on, we're not going to know what the box is, or what's in the box to know whether we can use this stuff for evidence.
     
  4. ding
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    ding Confront reality

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    I am examining the evidence before us which is the step one logically makes before forming an opinion.

    2. We live in a universe where everything happens for a reason according to the rules that govern nature.

    Right or wrong?
     
  5. ding
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    ding Confront reality

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    There is still a lot more to go. Right now I am stating self evident facts which can logically be proven.
     
  6. frigidweirdo
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    frigidweirdo Platinum Member

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    Well, within our universe there are rules, we don't understand all the rules yet.

    Everything happens in a certain way, but can something appear out of nothing? We don't know yet.

    The evidence in front of you isn't enough... that's the problem.

    It's like walking out of your door in the middle of winter with a freezing blizzard and then saying "global warming doesn't exist because I'm freezing cold".

    So you've asked the question, can the universe be used as evidence. It can, but it'll never be enough to answer the questions.
     
  7. miketx
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    miketx Diamond Member

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    Gravity is in control of universal expansion. As soon as the size of the universe gets large enough from expansion, Gravity will stop the expansion and we will see that it is flat.
     
  8. ding
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    ding Confront reality

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    So then you disagree that we live in a deterministic universe governed by rules where every effect had a cause that is governed by the laws of nature which means that everything that has happened has a reason for happening?

    You do realize this is the basis for science, right?
     
  9. frigidweirdo
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    frigidweirdo Platinum Member

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    No, I don't disagree and nothing I said pointed to that.
     
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  10. ding
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    ding Confront reality

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    3. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy (2nd Law of Thermodynamics).

    4. As time approaches infinity the universe will approach thermal equilibrium (consequence of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics).

    Right or wrong?
     
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