CDZ Can policies be agreed on by prochoice and prolife to reduce and prevent abortion

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by emilynghiem, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. cnm
    Offline

    cnm Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    9,454
    Thanks Received:
    7,708
    Trophy Points:
    2,055
    Location:
    Te Ika a Maui
    Ratings:
    +29,072
    Doesn't private money fund abstinence only birth control already?
     
  2. cnm
    Offline

    cnm Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    9,454
    Thanks Received:
    7,708
    Trophy Points:
    2,055
    Location:
    Te Ika a Maui
    Ratings:
    +29,072
    An extra unnecessary risk for women if a more efficient birth control programme is not in place, Shirley?
     
  3. Chuz Life
    Offline

    Chuz Life Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2015
    Messages:
    4,691
    Thanks Received:
    605
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +3,022
    According to the courts, they ARE.

    Are you claiming the courts have it wrong? No problem if you do. I claim the courts got it wrong in Roe, myself.

    Point is, the courts are not infallible. . . However, their decisions do carry some weight unless and until their decision is overturned.

    Good luck getting personhood stripped away from children born with severe brain issues. That's so "progressive" of you. (Sarcasm)
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Chuz Life
    Offline

    Chuz Life Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2015
    Messages:
    4,691
    Thanks Received:
    605
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +3,022
    What? We are told everyday that legal abortions are clean and safe? Aren't we?
     
  5. emilynghiem
    Offline

    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    17,916
    Thanks Received:
    2,343
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Location:
    National Freedmen's Town District
    Ratings:
    +5,841
    Hi cnm, there's nothing wrong with running "abstinence only" in their own programs, which is the point. Let people and community members who don't agree on sex education policy (also creation/evolution or global warming vs. corporate pollution) fund and run their OWN programs.

    Sure there will be "abstinence only" as there will still be advocates who are "absolutist" when it comes to executions or abortion or gun rights or any political belief. The point is to start by SEPARATING the funding so people can exercise their own beliefs on their own dime and their own time.

    If you wouldn't want prolife people "dictating" what Planned Parenthood counsels, then we shouldn't dictate if they want to fund programs teaching abstinence only. That's the trade off. And they DO want to Defund PP, so yes we can ask for this funding separation where it benefits all sides equally.

    NOTE: I found some prolife advocates who
    (1) ABSOLUTELY demanded full access to reliable effective birth control, as a doctor, because she went with the science and the reality of the situation, and she is a Christian Prolife doctor who wanted to promote that.

    The irony was NOT lost on me, that as a prochoice advocate I do believe that "not having sex" is the surest way to avoid unwanted pregnancy and abortion, andthis needs to be taught as the goal if we are ever going to get to 100% prevention. I'm not against birth control, but opposed to forcing the funding of this on people who don't believe in that approach or who want other conditions and terms attached if they are going to fund it. If they don't the terms they require, they should be able to fund something that does meet their standards. If we all did this, we'd fund all the approaches out there and quit fighting, just use ALL the approaches but give people the choice of which they want to support with their money and endorsement.

    (2) I have friends who opposed abortion even if other people fund it separately, and they ideally want it illegal. I explained that the prolife advocates who are most effective in preventing ALL the problems or steps that lead up to abortion, the people who ARE already promoting the education and prevention necessary to wipe it out 100% are all doing this under a "prochoice" environment. They are not FORCED to by law "because abortion is illegal" the prolife movement is most effective, and it is run entirely by free choice, by educated consent. So this proves it can be done without making it illegal if EVERYONE supported the work of the Prolife movement. I credit them with why we can have free choice, so that we exercise it responsibly with fully informed consent, so it isn't abused.

    Unfortunately "free choice" is abused, and people are not counseled to avoid abusive relationships that result in unwanted pregnancy, unwanted children or abortion. So that's why prolife advocates don't want groups "promoting abortion as a choice" because it allows a way out where the CAUSES of the problems never get addressed, instead of preventing them to begin with! they WANT people to take responsibility and not having or forcing sex TO BEGIN WITH.

    And what I ADD to that: then focus on the MEN having or forcing sex, not just targeting the women who carry the pregnancy and the children.

    The same education, counseling, deep longterm therapy and mentorship that can stop "relationship abuse" and "sexual abuse" also reduces or prevents: domestic violence, sexual addictions, rape, and other serious problems IN ADDITION TO reducing and preventing ABORTION.

    So the serious therapy and education on the process it takes
    to solve the CAUSES of these multitude of problems and abuses
    makes it worthwhile to invest and promote "that angle".

    It's not just abstinence but counseling and mentoring people
    to take that level of responsibility for their own health and the
    health of their relationships with other people, to respect
    CONSENT at all time, especially in conflict, to prevent
    bullying by abuse, either verbal or psychological coercion or
    physical violence.

    So again, it was ironic that as a prochoice person who believes in consent of the governed, I support abstinence education as a key area for teaching the importance of consent; while another prolife advocate I met was pushing for more effective birth control as the most logical approach!

    So this tells me we can respect all approaches, if even a prochoice "abstinence" advocate can agree with a prolife "birth control" advocate.

    We need every angle and approach out there to help reduce and prevent these problems. If people don't agree which to fund, let them fund their own, and SUPPORT them in being the most effective they can with their program of choice.

    We want people to succeed in defending and promoting fully informed choices, in order to ensure free choice is enforced and exercised properly as intended, and NEVER abused to coerce anyone, abuse relations or violate consent.
     
  6. cnm
    Offline

    cnm Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    9,454
    Thanks Received:
    7,708
    Trophy Points:
    2,055
    Location:
    Te Ika a Maui
    Ratings:
    +29,072
    Are we? Who has told you that lately? Do you believe everything you're told? Really?
     
  7. cnm
    Offline

    cnm Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    9,454
    Thanks Received:
    7,708
    Trophy Points:
    2,055
    Location:
    Te Ika a Maui
    Ratings:
    +29,072
    Yes there is. It doesn't work and leads to an increased requirement for abortions.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. alang1216
    Offline

    alang1216 Pragmatist

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,755
    Thanks Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    130
    Location:
    Virginia
    Ratings:
    +768
    Not something I'd ever think of doing, that is a decision that should be left to those closest to the child, the parents. I'd prefer to keep the government out of it. You apparently want to put the gov't between a parent and a child. That's so "progressive" of you.
     
  9. Chuz Life
    Offline

    Chuz Life Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2015
    Messages:
    4,691
    Thanks Received:
    605
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +3,022
    When lawsuits are filed as many already have been on both sides.... how the he'll are you going to keep government out of it?
     
  10. alang1216
    Offline

    alang1216 Pragmatist

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,755
    Thanks Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    130
    Location:
    Virginia
    Ratings:
    +768
    You could admit that Roe v. Wade is the law of the land and is supported by a majority of Americans. You could stop trying to chip away at it through legislation and put your efforts into education and assistance. Yeah, I'm sure that will happen.
     

Share This Page