Can Palestinians Govern "Palestine?"

[Hollie]

...Why have the P.A. refused to take the last steps towards statehood ?

One word: The UNRWA welfare fraud.

All seriousness aside, the cash cow that maintains entire infrastructures of Arab-Moslem welfare cheats, various islamic terrorist franchises and their enablers along with the fabulous wealth of those who control the money spigot is endangered by formal statehood for 'Pal'istanians. As Rocco noted earlier, the US (and other nations contributing to UNRWA) would likely reduce their contributions with Pal'istanian statehood.

The UNRWA welfare fraud has morphed into a generational endowment that perpetuates the invention of Pal'istanian refugees and destroys any incentive for Arabs-Moslems to make an attempt to build a functioning society. I think that in a very real sense, the west needs to accept responsibility for continuing to fund the UNRWA fraud while demanding no accountability on the part of Arabs-Moslems.

Anyone can do a search for themselves and find the documented abuses of UNRWA fraud money, so much of it not subject to any standards of audit and accountability and managed by thieves who maintain a payroll that includes Arab-Moslem terrorists.

Interesting take but IMHO not entirely accurate.

UNRWA is a cash cow (in the form of jobs) for Palestinians, foreign nationals and UN big-wigs. As such it would not disappear overnight but rather would remain the UN nanny agency on the ground. Bureaucracies rarely go away quietly (if they go at all) and international bleeding hearts will fight to maintain UNRWA for years if not decades.

Additionally, many countries (US, Euro, Gulf States) will be so energized by a peace deal and Pal statehood they will invest time and cash to get it off the ground. They could not afford to let it fail. Neither could Israel.

Sayit - I'd offer yes and no to your assessment. I agree with your UNRWA cash cow observation and your note of the various entities exploiting the money spigot. It is that very observation that makes me suspicious of any true effort on the part of the Pal'istanians and other entities to upset the status quo.

I'm pessimistic about international investment in Pal'istanian enterprises. Any incentive for investment in Pal'istanian industry would need to be preceded by a clear path toward a stable government both willing and able to manage civil and business affairs. I don't see any of those attributes displayed by the current, competing governments in Fatah and Hamas. Secondly, international investment will require a workforce capable of commerce and industry. Currently, and due to decades of careless disregard for developing industry, the Pal'istanians innovate, manufacture, develop and produce virtually nothing. International investment would require international investors with a reasonable expectation of a positive risk/reward analysis. That might eventually develop but as we see across the islamic Middle East, there are not a lot of bright spots that attract Western investment. Maybe if the Pal'istanians built some pyramids?

 

[P F Tinmore]

...Why have the P.A. refused to take the last steps towards statehood ?

One word: The UNRWA welfare fraud.

All seriousness aside, the cash cow that maintains entire infrastructures of Arab-Moslem welfare cheats, various islamic terrorist franchises and their enablers along with the fabulous wealth of those who control the money spigot is endangered by formal statehood for 'Pal'istanians. As Rocco noted earlier, the US (and other nations contributing to UNRWA) would likely reduce their contributions with Pal'istanian statehood.

The UNRWA welfare fraud has morphed into a generational endowment that perpetuates the invention of Pal'istanian refugees and destroys any incentive for Arabs-Moslems to make an attempt to build a functioning society. I think that in a very real sense, the west needs to accept responsibility for continuing to fund the UNRWA fraud while demanding no accountability on the part of Arabs-Moslems.

Anyone can do a search for themselves and find the documented abuses of UNRWA fraud money, so much of it not subject to any standards of audit and accountability and managed by thieves who maintain a payroll that includes Arab-Moslem terrorists.

Interesting take but IMHO not entirely accurate.

UNRWA is a cash cow (in the form of jobs) for Palestinians, foreign nationals and UN big-wigs. As such it would not disappear overnight but rather would remain the UN nanny agency on the ground. Bureaucracies rarely go away quietly (if they go at all) and international bleeding hearts will fight to maintain UNRWA for years if not decades.

Additionally, many countries (US, Euro, Gulf States) will be so energized by a peace deal and Pal statehood they will invest time and cash to get it off the ground. They could not afford to let it fail. Neither could Israel.

Sayit - I'd offer yes and no to your assessment. I agree with your UNRWA cash cow observation and your note of the various entities exploiting the money spigot. It is that very observation that makes me suspicious of any true effort on the part of the Pal'istanians and other entities to upset the status quo.

I'm pessimistic about international investment in Pal'istanian enterprises. Any incentive for investment in Pal'istanian industry would need to be preceded by a clear path toward a stable government both willing and able to manage civil and business affairs. I don't see any of those attributes displayed by the current, competing governments in Fatah and Hamas. Secondly, international investment will require a workforce capable of commerce and industry. Currently, and due to decades of careless disregard for developing industry, the Pal'istanians innovate, manufacture, develop and produce virtually nothing. International investment would require international investors with a reasonable expectation of a positive risk/reward analysis. That might eventually develop but as we see across the islamic Middle East, there are not a lot of bright spots that attract Western investment. Maybe if the Pal'istanians built some pyramids?

Palestine needed no aid and had a positive balance of international trade.

Then Israel came along. Now we have two countries on welfare.

Good plan.

 

[Phoenall]

...Why have the P.A. refused to take the last steps towards statehood ?

One word: The UNRWA welfare fraud.

All seriousness aside, the cash cow that maintains entire infrastructures of Arab-Moslem welfare cheats, various islamic terrorist franchises and their enablers along with the fabulous wealth of those who control the money spigot is endangered by formal statehood for 'Pal'istanians. As Rocco noted earlier, the US (and other nations contributing to UNRWA) would likely reduce their contributions with Pal'istanian statehood.

The UNRWA welfare fraud has morphed into a generational endowment that perpetuates the invention of Pal'istanian refugees and destroys any incentive for Arabs-Moslems to make an attempt to build a functioning society. I think that in a very real sense, the west needs to accept responsibility for continuing to fund the UNRWA fraud while demanding no accountability on the part of Arabs-Moslems.

Anyone can do a search for themselves and find the documented abuses of UNRWA fraud money, so much of it not subject to any standards of audit and accountability and managed by thieves who maintain a payroll that includes Arab-Moslem terrorists.

Interesting take but IMHO not entirely accurate.

UNRWA is a cash cow (in the form of jobs) for Palestinians, foreign nationals and UN big-wigs. As such it would not disappear overnight but rather would remain the UN nanny agency on the ground. Bureaucracies rarely go away quietly (if they go at all) and international bleeding hearts will fight to maintain UNRWA for years if not decades.

Additionally, many countries (US, Euro, Gulf States) will be so energized by a peace deal and Pal statehood they will invest time and cash to get it off the ground. They could not afford to let it fail. Neither could Israel.

Sayit - I'd offer yes and no to your assessment. I agree with your UNRWA cash cow observation and your note of the various entities exploiting the money spigot. It is that very observation that makes me suspicious of any true effort on the part of the Pal'istanians and other entities to upset the status quo.

I'm pessimistic about international investment in Pal'istanian enterprises. Any incentive for investment in Pal'istanian industry would need to be preceded by a clear path toward a stable government both willing and able to manage civil and business affairs. I don't see any of those attributes displayed by the current, competing governments in Fatah and Hamas. Secondly, international investment will require a workforce capable of commerce and industry. Currently, and due to decades of careless disregard for developing industry, the Pal'istanians innovate, manufacture, develop and produce virtually nothing. International investment would require international investors with a reasonable expectation of a positive risk/reward analysis. That might eventually develop but as we see across the islamic Middle East, there are not a lot of bright spots that attract Western investment. Maybe if the Pal'istanians built some pyramids?

Palestine needed no aid and had a positive balance of international trade.

Then Israel came along. Now we have two countries on welfare.

Good plan.

No we have an islamonazi terrorist camp called gaza, an islamonazi breeding ground called the west bank that are dependant on welfare fraud. Then we have Israel that is paid to protect the free world and carry on its role as the nation with a positive balance of international trade. No nation of palestine has ever existed, and never will while the world pays them to attack Jewish children.


The best plan was the one instigated by the arab muslims in 1925 that called for the removal of all muslims from the Jewish part of palestine

 

[Coyote]

Let's get back on topic please - which is governing Palestine.

 

[Hollie]

...Why have the P.A. refused to take the last steps towards statehood ?

One word: The UNRWA welfare fraud.

All seriousness aside, the cash cow that maintains entire infrastructures of Arab-Moslem welfare cheats, various islamic terrorist franchises and their enablers along with the fabulous wealth of those who control the money spigot is endangered by formal statehood for 'Pal'istanians. As Rocco noted earlier, the US (and other nations contributing to UNRWA) would likely reduce their contributions with Pal'istanian statehood.

The UNRWA welfare fraud has morphed into a generational endowment that perpetuates the invention of Pal'istanian refugees and destroys any incentive for Arabs-Moslems to make an attempt to build a functioning society. I think that in a very real sense, the west needs to accept responsibility for continuing to fund the UNRWA fraud while demanding no accountability on the part of Arabs-Moslems.

Anyone can do a search for themselves and find the documented abuses of UNRWA fraud money, so much of it not subject to any standards of audit and accountability and managed by thieves who maintain a payroll that includes Arab-Moslem terrorists.

Interesting take but IMHO not entirely accurate.

UNRWA is a cash cow (in the form of jobs) for Palestinians, foreign nationals and UN big-wigs. As such it would not disappear overnight but rather would remain the UN nanny agency on the ground. Bureaucracies rarely go away quietly (if they go at all) and international bleeding hearts will fight to maintain UNRWA for years if not decades.

Additionally, many countries (US, Euro, Gulf States) will be so energized by a peace deal and Pal statehood they will invest time and cash to get it off the ground. They could not afford to let it fail. Neither could Israel.

Sayit - I'd offer yes and no to your assessment. I agree with your UNRWA cash cow observation and your note of the various entities exploiting the money spigot. It is that very observation that makes me suspicious of any true effort on the part of the Pal'istanians and other entities to upset the status quo.

I'm pessimistic about international investment in Pal'istanian enterprises. Any incentive for investment in Pal'istanian industry would need to be preceded by a clear path toward a stable government both willing and able to manage civil and business affairs. I don't see any of those attributes displayed by the current, competing governments in Fatah and Hamas. Secondly, international investment will require a workforce capable of commerce and industry. Currently, and due to decades of careless disregard for developing industry, the Pal'istanians innovate, manufacture, develop and produce virtually nothing. International investment would require international investors with a reasonable expectation of a positive risk/reward analysis. That might eventually develop but as we see across the islamic Middle East, there are not a lot of bright spots that attract Western investment. Maybe if the Pal'istanians built some pyramids?

Palestine needed no aid and had a positive balance of international trade.

Then Israel came along. Now we have two countries on welfare.

Good plan.

The above tends to complicate the notion of Pal'istanians governing a place called Pal'istan. The countries called Gaza and the West Bank (remarkable what one can learn reading these forums), suffer the same problems with islamic terrorists attempting to manage the affairs of government that we see all across islamist Middle East. How would a government run by these folks you call Pal'istanians be any different from the governments in the "countries" of Gaza and the West Bank?

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Weatherman2020]

Pol Pot, Kim Jung Il, Mao, Stalin, Hitler all governed their nations, so yes.

 

[Hollie]

Repeat after me:

I blame the Great Satan ™

 

[P F Tinmore]

US coup begins @ 6:40

 

[Hollie]

US coup begins @ 6:40

Repeat after me:

I saw it on YouTube so it must be true ™

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Hollie]

A YouTube video is always an accurate and literal rendering of islamo-claims to:

I blame the Great Satan ™, or alternately,

I blame The Zionist Entity™

or sometimes, both pleas as a way to excuse Arab-Moslem terrorism.

 

[P F Tinmore]

A YouTube video is always an accurate and literal rendering of islamo-claims to:

I blame the Great Satan ™, or alternately,

I blame The Zionist Entity™

or sometimes, both pleas as a way to excuse Arab-Moslem terrorism.

Three different reports from three different countries that all match the facts on the ground.

Do you have anything different?

 

[Hollie]

A YouTube video is always an accurate and literal rendering of islamo-claims to:

I blame the Great Satan ™, or alternately,

I blame The Zionist Entity™

or sometimes, both pleas as a way to excuse Arab-Moslem terrorism.

Three different reports from three different countries that all match the facts on the ground.

Do you have anything different?

You suffer from the I saw it on YouTube so it must be true ™, syndrome.

By the way, did you notice your cut and paste YouTube videos bear the "Democracy Now", logo?

Mindless cutting and pasting from far left / conspiracy theory promoting YouTube channels suggests promotion of propaganda is your primary goal.

What is your proposed conspiracy theory for the refusal of new elections by either of the current Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank?

 

[P F Tinmore]

A YouTube video is always an accurate and literal rendering of islamo-claims to:

I blame the Great Satan ™, or alternately,

I blame The Zionist Entity™

or sometimes, both pleas as a way to excuse Arab-Moslem terrorism.

Three different reports from three different countries that all match the facts on the ground.

Do you have anything different?

You suffer from the I saw it on YouTube so it must be true ™, syndrome.

By the way, did you notice your cut and paste YouTube videos bear the "Democracy Now", logo?

Mindless cutting and pasting from far left / conspiracy theory promoting YouTube channels suggests promotion of propaganda is your primary goal.

What is your proposed conspiracy theory for the refusal of new elections by either of the current Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank?

Clearly you are just shoveling shit because you don't know jack.

The liars say that Hamas had a coup in Gaza. This lie is so obvious yet there are many dupes who believe it.

Hamas was the elected government in office. They were the majority party in the Palestinian Authority, not just in Gaza but in the West Bank too.

So, what would be the point of having a coup?
-----------------------
The "PA" in the West Bank is an illegal government. Can anyone trust an illegal government to hold fair elections?

 

[Hollie]

A YouTube video is always an accurate and literal rendering of islamo-claims to:

I blame the Great Satan ™, or alternately,

I blame The Zionist Entity™

or sometimes, both pleas as a way to excuse Arab-Moslem terrorism.

Three different reports from three different countries that all match the facts on the ground.

Do you have anything different?

You suffer from the I saw it on YouTube so it must be true ™, syndrome.

By the way, did you notice your cut and paste YouTube videos bear the "Democracy Now", logo?

Mindless cutting and pasting from far left / conspiracy theory promoting YouTube channels suggests promotion of propaganda is your primary goal.

What is your proposed conspiracy theory for the refusal of new elections by either of the current Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank?

Clearly you are just shoveling shit because you don't know jack.

The liars say that Hamas had a coup in Gaza. This lie is so obvious yet there are many dupes who believe it.

Hamas was the elected government in office. They were the majority party in the Palestinian Authority, not just in Gaza but in the West Bank too.

So, what would be the point of having a coup?
-----------------------
The "PA" in the West Bank is an illegal government. Can anyone trust an illegal government to hold fair elections?

I'm somehow not impressed with your determination regarding which of the competing islamist terrorist franchises is illegal vs. legal.

More importantly, both of the welfare fraud "governments" occupying the disputed territories have a peculiar similarity to so many other corrupt islamic terrorist groups masquerading as "governments" all across the islamist Middle East.

It's an odd thing, don't you think? So many other societies/cultures have managed to overcome adversity of many kinds and managed to rise above that adversity, manage their affairs and chart their own destiny without the endless decades of incompetence and ineptitude that defines so much of the islamist world.

There seems to be a common theme that connects retrogression, self-destruction and failure that defines theocratic totalitarian islamo-societies.

Any guesses on what that common theme might be?

 

[P F Tinmore]

A YouTube video is always an accurate and literal rendering of islamo-claims to:

I blame the Great Satan ™, or alternately,

I blame The Zionist Entity™

or sometimes, both pleas as a way to excuse Arab-Moslem terrorism.

Three different reports from three different countries that all match the facts on the ground.

Do you have anything different?

You suffer from the I saw it on YouTube so it must be true ™, syndrome.

By the way, did you notice your cut and paste YouTube videos bear the "Democracy Now", logo?

Mindless cutting and pasting from far left / conspiracy theory promoting YouTube channels suggests promotion of propaganda is your primary goal.

What is your proposed conspiracy theory for the refusal of new elections by either of the current Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank?

Clearly you are just shoveling shit because you don't know jack.

The liars say that Hamas had a coup in Gaza. This lie is so obvious yet there are many dupes who believe it.

Hamas was the elected government in office. They were the majority party in the Palestinian Authority, not just in Gaza but in the West Bank too.

So, what would be the point of having a coup?
-----------------------
The "PA" in the West Bank is an illegal government. Can anyone trust an illegal government to hold fair elections?

I'm somehow not impressed with your determination regarding which of the competing islamist terrorist franchises is illegal vs. legal.

More importantly, both of the welfare fraud "governments" occupying the disputed territories have a peculiar similarity to so many other corrupt islamic terrorist groups masquerading as "governments" all across the islamist Middle East.

It's an odd thing, don't you think? So many other societies/cultures have managed to overcome adversity of many kinds and managed to rise above that adversity, manage their affairs and chart their own destiny without the endless decades of incompetence and ineptitude that defines so much of the islamist world.

There seems to be a common theme that connects retrogression, self-destruction and failure that defines theocratic totalitarian islamo-societies.

Any guesses on what that common theme might be?

You are just babbling because you have nothing to refute my post.

 

[Hollie]

A YouTube video is always an accurate and literal rendering of islamo-claims to:

I blame the Great Satan ™, or alternately,

I blame The Zionist Entity™

or sometimes, both pleas as a way to excuse Arab-Moslem terrorism.

Three different reports from three different countries that all match the facts on the ground.

Do you have anything different?

You suffer from the I saw it on YouTube so it must be true ™, syndrome.

By the way, did you notice your cut and paste YouTube videos bear the "Democracy Now", logo?

Mindless cutting and pasting from far left / conspiracy theory promoting YouTube channels suggests promotion of propaganda is your primary goal.

What is your proposed conspiracy theory for the refusal of new elections by either of the current Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank?

Clearly you are just shoveling shit because you don't know jack.

The liars say that Hamas had a coup in Gaza. This lie is so obvious yet there are many dupes who believe it.

Hamas was the elected government in office. They were the majority party in the Palestinian Authority, not just in Gaza but in the West Bank too.

So, what would be the point of having a coup?
-----------------------
The "PA" in the West Bank is an illegal government. Can anyone trust an illegal government to hold fair elections?

I'm somehow not impressed with your determination regarding which of the competing islamist terrorist franchises is illegal vs. legal.

More importantly, both of the welfare fraud "governments" occupying the disputed territories have a peculiar similarity to so many other corrupt islamic terrorist groups masquerading as "governments" all across the islamist Middle East.

It's an odd thing, don't you think? So many other societies/cultures have managed to overcome adversity of many kinds and managed to rise above that adversity, manage their affairs and chart their own destiny without the endless decades of incompetence and ineptitude that defines so much of the islamist world.

There seems to be a common theme that connects retrogression, self-destruction and failure that defines theocratic totalitarian islamo-societies.

Any guesses on what that common theme might be?

You are just babbling because you have nothing to refute my post.

I have a YouTube video that authoritatively refutes your YouTube video.

There. The matter is settled.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, well you have your opinion.

The "PA" in the West Bank is an illegal government. Can anyone trust an illegal government to hold fair elections?

(COMMENT)

There is nothing "illegal" about the Ramallah Government, the Government of Palestine, or what ever you want to call it.

The International Criminal Court (ICC) cannot admit a non-state entity which does not possesses capacity to conclude treaties.

1. A person is considered as representing a State for the purpose of adopting or authenticating the text of a treaty or for the purpose of expressing the consent of the State to be bound by a treaty if:

(a) he produces appropriate full powers; or

(b) it appears from the practice of the States concerned or from other circumstances that their intention was to consider that person as representing the State for such purposes and to dispense with full powers.
​

2. In virtue of their functions and without having to produce full powers, the following are considered as representing their State:

(a) Heads of State, Heads of Government and Ministers for Foreign Affairs, for the purpose of performing all acts relating to the conclusion of a treaty;

(b) heads of diplomatic missions, for the purpose of adopting the text of a treaty between the accrediting State and the State to which they are accredited;

(c) representatives accredited by States to an international conference or to an international organization or one of its organs, for the purpose of adopting the text of a treaty in that conference, organization or organ.
​

The ICC recognized that the "State of Palestine" acceded to the Rome Statute and the Agreement on Privileges and Immunities of the Court ("APIC") on 2 January 2015.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, well you have your opinion.

The "PA" in the West Bank is an illegal government. Can anyone trust an illegal government to hold fair elections?

(COMMENT)

There is nothing "illegal" about the Ramallah Government, the Government of Palestine, or what ever you want to call it.

The International Criminal Court (ICC) cannot admit a non-state entity which does not possesses capacity to conclude treaties.

1. A person is considered as representing a State for the purpose of adopting or authenticating the text of a treaty or for the purpose of expressing the consent of the State to be bound by a treaty if:

(a) he produces appropriate full powers; or

(b) it appears from the practice of the States concerned or from other circumstances that their intention was to consider that person as representing the State for such purposes and to dispense with full powers.
​

2. In virtue of their functions and without having to produce full powers, the following are considered as representing their State:

(a) Heads of State, Heads of Government and Ministers for Foreign Affairs, for the purpose of performing all acts relating to the conclusion of a treaty;

(b) heads of diplomatic missions, for the purpose of adopting the text of a treaty between the accrediting State and the State to which they are accredited;

(c) representatives accredited by States to an international conference or to an international organization or one of its organs, for the purpose of adopting the text of a treaty in that conference, organization or organ.
​

The ICC recognized that the "State of Palestine" acceded to the Rome Statute and the Agreement on Privileges and Immunities of the Court ("APIC") on 2 January 2015.

Most Respectfully,
R

Political opinions do not change the law.

Abbas left the government in June of 2007. With the help of US supplied guns, money, and political cover, i.e. lies, he set up an illegal government in the West Bank after his resignation. Neither the Prime Minister nor any of his Cabinet Ministers have been approved by parliament as required by their constitution.

We have an unelected president and an unapproved PM and cabinet.

I don't see anything legal there.