CDZ Can One Be a Leftist or Liberal and Believe in Constitution and Deep-Rooted American Values?

JBG

Liberal democrat
Jan 8, 2012
394
241
193
New York City area
I am an liberal or leftist (not sure of which is a better term) who believes in the Constitution, supporting democracies as allies, and many deep-rooted American values. Mostly, I am an American and believe this is one of the greatest countries on earth.

America got that way because of the people it has drawn from other countries. Until the 1930's the U.S. has offered almost no social "safety net." Coming to a country where the minute you set foot you had to work like crazy and, to boot, in most cases learn a new language was a daunting prospect. Though it is a fictional work, Fiddler on the Roof was based upon historical fact. Its setting, the Western part of Czarist Russia, and now modern Moldova, Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia were always what should have been paradoxical, despotic, anarchic and chaotic at the same time. The "government" such as it was provided few if any services, and did not enforce law and order. The famous Kishinev Pogroms were a well-known highlight of this state of affairs. People who wanted to make something of their lives simply had no future among drunken peasants that wanted nothing more than to kill them.

One of my four great-grandfathers, and the only one I know anything about was a jeweler in Kiev, Ukraine. A conscript in the Czar's army, he fled when the Army wanted to force a renewal of his term because of his skills. He and my great-grandmother (an arranged marriage in the Jewish tradition of Fiddler on the Roof) fled to New York by way of Montreal. He became a shoemaker in Yonkers, and never really struck it rich. One of their daughters was my maternal grandmother. She married my grandfather, a dentist. They bought a small house in Yonkers. While their lives were not perfect (I understand a bad marriage and alcohol abuse on the part of my grandfather were involved) they put their son (my uncle) and my mother through Syracuse University. My uncle became an executive at a major TV network. My mother became a housewife, and spurred my father to success as an interior architect after an unsuccessful Cornell education as an engineer. I went to Cornell and Boston University Law School and became a lawyer. Only in America would this levitation be possible.

And it was mostly through "the Constitution," (through grudging tolerance for Jews) and hard work, as well as a belief that there really are no limits to growth (except I'm short and didn't grow to the sky), that made all of this possible. Their was no real money in the family and we received little government assistance, except Navy-paid and GI Bill education for my father, and a small amount of unemployment assistance for brief periods between jobs for me.

My OWN life has not been perfect. However, I don't look to find fault or place blames for any of my misfortunes on other people, the government, Donald Trump, etc.

How do I rate myself a left-winger and a liberal? I believe that governments should raise money openly through taxes and not through speed traps, petty regulations and fines, etc. I support integration in the schools and work place, though I am against affirmative action. I am pro-choice. I believe in the public school system. And I support causes anathema to many conservatives, including legalized marijuana and reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone.

I believe this is consistent with progressivism.
 
There's now a clear difference between liberalism and progressivism.

Liberals are curious, they're open, they're accepting, they're tolerant, they believe in true freedom of expression, and they love America as is.

Progressives are illiberal leftist authoritarians who resemble nothing listed above. They are, in fact, Regressives.
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If you put a fine point on terminology, a liberal (even the modern definition of "social liberalism") CAN support the Constitution. Jonathan Turley of George Washington University is a good example of a liberal with solid Constitutional cred.

A Leftist cannot. Leftists generally support philosophies of overall government control over the lives of citizens, which is anathema to the Constitution. The Democratic Party has slipped from liberal to full-blown Leftist over the last fifty years or so. Their stated aim to 'fundamentally change the United States of America' sets them in opposition to the foundational underpinnings of the Constitutional model.
 
I am an liberal or leftist (not sure of which is a better term) who believes in the Constitution, supporting democracies as allies, and many deep-rooted American values. Mostly, I am an American and believe this is one of the greatest countries on earth.

America got that way because of the people it has drawn from other countries. Until the 1930's the U.S. has offered almost no social "safety net." Coming to a country where the minute you set foot you had to work like crazy and, to boot, in most cases learn a new language was a daunting prospect. Though it is a fictional work, Fiddler on the Roof was based upon historical fact. Its setting, the Western part of Czarist Russia, and now modern Moldova, Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia were always what should have been paradoxical, despotic, anarchic and chaotic at the same time. The "government" such as it was provided few if any services, and did not enforce law and order. The famous Kishinev Pogroms were a well-known highlight of this state of affairs. People who wanted to make something of their lives simply had no future among drunken peasants that wanted nothing more than to kill them.

One of my four great-grandfathers, and the only one I know anything about was a jeweler in Kiev, Ukraine. A conscript in the Czar's army, he fled when the Army wanted to force a renewal of his term because of his skills. He and my great-grandmother (an arranged marriage in the Jewish tradition of Fiddler on the Roof) fled to New York by way of Montreal. He became a shoemaker in Yonkers, and never really struck it rich. One of their daughters was my maternal grandmother. She married my grandfather, a dentist. They bought a small house in Yonkers. While their lives were not perfect (I understand a bad marriage and alcohol abuse on the part of my grandfather were involved) they put their son (my uncle) and my mother through Syracuse University. My uncle became an executive at a major TV network. My mother became a housewife, and spurred my father to success as an interior architect after an unsuccessful Cornell education as an engineer. I went to Cornell and Boston University Law School and became a lawyer. Only in America would this levitation be possible.

And it was mostly through "the Constitution," (through grudging tolerance for Jews) and hard work, as well as a belief that there really are no limits to growth (except I'm short and didn't grow to the sky), that made all of this possible. Their was no real money in the family and we received little government assistance, except Navy-paid and GI Bill education for my father, and a small amount of unemployment assistance for brief periods between jobs for me.

My OWN life has not been perfect. However, I don't look to find fault or place blames for any of my misfortunes on other people, the government, Donald Trump, etc.

How do I rate myself a left-winger and a liberal? I believe that governments should raise money openly through taxes and not through speed traps, petty regulations and fines, etc. I support integration in the schools and work place, though I am against affirmative action. I am pro-choice. I believe in the public school system. And I support causes anathema to many conservatives, including legalized marijuana and reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone.

I believe this is consistent with progressivism.

There is no need to try and pigeon hole yourself into a particular political philosophy.

This is America ... Think more about what you can do to help yourself succeed or accomplish your goals.
If you want the government to provide for or control your ability to achieve your goals ... Then the Constitution is not for you.

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Here's the long and the short of it: Leftists (which is to say, most Democrats today) DO NOT BELIEVE IN NATURAL LAW.

That is to say, they do not believe that there are principles out there defining "good" and "evil," that exist BEFORE and INDEPENDENT OF any visible benefit or harm in behavior.

The most obvious illustration of the difference between a Leftist and a traditional Liberal (or a Conservative) is their relative positions on abortion. To a Leftist, there is simply no moral (i.e., "right" vs. "wrong") issue with abortion. No visible or cognizable PERSON is harmed by abortion, so there is no problem. To a traditional Liberal, as long as there is a chance that the fetus is a person, then it is morally objectionable to kill it, and at the very least, killing it should be reserved for only the most extreme cases. To the Conservative (who believes in Natural Law, as generally formulated in the Torah), the fetus IS a person, and therefore killing it is morally unacceptable...and should be legally unacceptable as well.

The Constitution, and Traditional American Values, all presuppose the existence and validity of Natural Law. If you do not believe in Natural Law, then you reject traditional American values, and the Constitution is merely a statement of archaic principles, with questionable contemporary value.
 

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We all are gonna agree or disagree with even the Constitution a little bit. It doesn't make you bad, just a human and not a party cheerleader or follower/worshiper.

The left/right battle is old and has also divided some natural small government allies in my opinion.

I think that image will take. Personally I think the U.S. Constitution amd Amendments fall about two down towards Libertarian and maybe two right of center.

The whole chart measures 20 top to bottom and left to right. As soon as people get more than 4 points anyway from that they wander into quasi not so constitutional things like Universal Heath care (which I'm in favor of) or the Patriot Act (I am not).
 
I am an liberal or leftist (not sure of which is a better term) who believes in the Constitution, supporting democracies as allies, and many deep-rooted American values. Mostly, I am an American and believe this is one of the greatest countries on earth.

America got that way because of the people it has drawn from other countries. Until the 1930's the U.S. has offered almost no social "safety net." Coming to a country where the minute you set foot you had to work like crazy and, to boot, in most cases learn a new language was a daunting prospect. Though it is a fictional work, Fiddler on the Roof was based upon historical fact. Its setting, the Western part of Czarist Russia, and now modern Moldova, Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia were always what should have been paradoxical, despotic, anarchic and chaotic at the same time. The "government" such as it was provided few if any services, and did not enforce law and order. The famous Kishinev Pogroms were a well-known highlight of this state of affairs. People who wanted to make something of their lives simply had no future among drunken peasants that wanted nothing more than to kill them.

One of my four great-grandfathers, and the only one I know anything about was a jeweler in Kiev, Ukraine. A conscript in the Czar's army, he fled when the Army wanted to force a renewal of his term because of his skills. He and my great-grandmother (an arranged marriage in the Jewish tradition of Fiddler on the Roof) fled to New York by way of Montreal. He became a shoemaker in Yonkers, and never really struck it rich. One of their daughters was my maternal grandmother. She married my grandfather, a dentist. They bought a small house in Yonkers. While their lives were not perfect (I understand a bad marriage and alcohol abuse on the part of my grandfather were involved) they put their son (my uncle) and my mother through Syracuse University. My uncle became an executive at a major TV network. My mother became a housewife, and spurred my father to success as an interior architect after an unsuccessful Cornell education as an engineer. I went to Cornell and Boston University Law School and became a lawyer. Only in America would this levitation be possible.

And it was mostly through "the Constitution," (through grudging tolerance for Jews) and hard work, as well as a belief that there really are no limits to growth (except I'm short and didn't grow to the sky), that made all of this possible. Their was no real money in the family and we received little government assistance, except Navy-paid and GI Bill education for my father, and a small amount of unemployment assistance for brief periods between jobs for me.

My OWN life has not been perfect. However, I don't look to find fault or place blames for any of my misfortunes on other people, the government, Donald Trump, etc.

How do I rate myself a left-winger and a liberal? I believe that governments should raise money openly through taxes and not through speed traps, petty regulations and fines, etc. I support integration in the schools and work place, though I am against affirmative action. I am pro-choice. I believe in the public school system. And I support causes anathema to many conservatives, including legalized marijuana and reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone.

I believe this is consistent with progressivism.

In a nutshell, one cannot be a liberal and believe in the Constitution.

The two are polar opposites. Your last paragraph showed that vast difference you have with the Constitution.
 
Liberalism has changed over the past 40 years into something that does not align well with the Constitution. That is why Liberal opinions on the Constitution are usually about amending, amending the amendments or "updating" the Constitution rather than embracing the fundamental concepts of the Constitution that have been proven to work for over two centuries.
 
Liberalism has died. It has been replaced by authoritarian identity politics.

Liberalism is a wonderful thing. The monstrosity that replaced it is quite nearly the antithesis of actual liberalism.
 
Liberalism has died. It has been replaced by authoritarian identity politics.

Liberalism is a wonderful thing. The monstrosity that replaced it is quite nearly the antithesis of actual liberalism.
Liberalism has changed over the past 40 years into something that does not align well with the Constitution. That is why Liberal opinions on the Constitution are usually about amending, amending the amendments or "updating" the Constitution rather than embracing the fundamental concepts of the Constitution that have been proven to work for over two centuries.

Could you all expand on this a bit.
 
Liberals are a nearly extinct species who used to believe in social welfare programs, equality under the law, and a strong national defense. Also, they were willing to debate their ideas in a respectful manner.

They have now been replaced by Leftists who subscribe to group think, slogans and repression of dissent. The true inheritors of Nazism.
 
Liberals are a nearly extinct species who used to believe in social welfare programs, equality under the law, and a strong national defense. Also, they were willing to debate their ideas in a respectful manner.

They have now been replaced by Leftists who subscribe to group think, slogans and repression of dissent. The true inheritors of Nazism.

Hitler assassinated Strasser right? I don't think he pulled the trigger so to say but had him killed?
 
I am an liberal or leftist (not sure of which is a better term) who believes in the Constitution, supporting democracies as allies, and many deep-rooted American values. Mostly, I am an American and believe this is one of the greatest countries on earth.

America got that way because of the people it has drawn from other countries. Until the 1930's the U.S. has offered almost no social "safety net." Coming to a country where the minute you set foot you had to work like crazy and, to boot, in most cases learn a new language was a daunting prospect. Though it is a fictional work, Fiddler on the Roof was based upon historical fact. Its setting, the Western part of Czarist Russia, and now modern Moldova, Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia were always what should have been paradoxical, despotic, anarchic and chaotic at the same time. The "government" such as it was provided few if any services, and did not enforce law and order. The famous Kishinev Pogroms were a well-known highlight of this state of affairs. People who wanted to make something of their lives simply had no future among drunken peasants that wanted nothing more than to kill them.

One of my four great-grandfathers, and the only one I know anything about was a jeweler in Kiev, Ukraine. A conscript in the Czar's army, he fled when the Army wanted to force a renewal of his term because of his skills. He and my great-grandmother (an arranged marriage in the Jewish tradition of Fiddler on the Roof) fled to New York by way of Montreal. He became a shoemaker in Yonkers, and never really struck it rich. One of their daughters was my maternal grandmother. She married my grandfather, a dentist. They bought a small house in Yonkers. While their lives were not perfect (I understand a bad marriage and alcohol abuse on the part of my grandfather were involved) they put their son (my uncle) and my mother through Syracuse University. My uncle became an executive at a major TV network. My mother became a housewife, and spurred my father to success as an interior architect after an unsuccessful Cornell education as an engineer. I went to Cornell and Boston University Law School and became a lawyer. Only in America would this levitation be possible.

And it was mostly through "the Constitution," (through grudging tolerance for Jews) and hard work, as well as a belief that there really are no limits to growth (except I'm short and didn't grow to the sky), that made all of this possible. Their was no real money in the family and we received little government assistance, except Navy-paid and GI Bill education for my father, and a small amount of unemployment assistance for brief periods between jobs for me.

My OWN life has not been perfect. However, I don't look to find fault or place blames for any of my misfortunes on other people, the government, Donald Trump, etc.

How do I rate myself a left-winger and a liberal? I believe that governments should raise money openly through taxes and not through speed traps, petty regulations and fines, etc. I support integration in the schools and work place, though I am against affirmative action. I am pro-choice. I believe in the public school system. And I support causes anathema to many conservatives, including legalized marijuana and reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone.

I believe this is consistent with progressivism.
To be honest my family came here because they were Quakers and not allowed to practice freely in England. No about what you posted has deep errors in it. Coming from another Nation does not make or benefit the USA it when you become American, speak the language, join in the customs, sure you can keep yours as long as it is within the law. You become an American when you Id yourself as a American period. Not a xxxxxx/American.
 
I am an liberal or leftist (not sure of which is a better term) who believes in the Constitution, supporting democracies as allies, and many deep-rooted American values. Mostly, I am an American and believe this is one of the greatest countries on earth.

America got that way because of the people it has drawn from other countries. Until the 1930's the U.S. has offered almost no social "safety net." Coming to a country where the minute you set foot you had to work like crazy and, to boot, in most cases learn a new language was a daunting prospect. Though it is a fictional work, Fiddler on the Roof was based upon historical fact. Its setting, the Western part of Czarist Russia, and now modern Moldova, Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia were always what should have been paradoxical, despotic, anarchic and chaotic at the same time. The "government" such as it was provided few if any services, and did not enforce law and order. The famous Kishinev Pogroms were a well-known highlight of this state of affairs. People who wanted to make something of their lives simply had no future among drunken peasants that wanted nothing more than to kill them.

One of my four great-grandfathers, and the only one I know anything about was a jeweler in Kiev, Ukraine. A conscript in the Czar's army, he fled when the Army wanted to force a renewal of his term because of his skills. He and my great-grandmother (an arranged marriage in the Jewish tradition of Fiddler on the Roof) fled to New York by way of Montreal. He became a shoemaker in Yonkers, and never really struck it rich. One of their daughters was my maternal grandmother. She married my grandfather, a dentist. They bought a small house in Yonkers. While their lives were not perfect (I understand a bad marriage and alcohol abuse on the part of my grandfather were involved) they put their son (my uncle) and my mother through Syracuse University. My uncle became an executive at a major TV network. My mother became a housewife, and spurred my father to success as an interior architect after an unsuccessful Cornell education as an engineer. I went to Cornell and Boston University Law School and became a lawyer. Only in America would this levitation be possible.

And it was mostly through "the Constitution," (through grudging tolerance for Jews) and hard work, as well as a belief that there really are no limits to growth (except I'm short and didn't grow to the sky), that made all of this possible. Their was no real money in the family and we received little government assistance, except Navy-paid and GI Bill education for my father, and a small amount of unemployment assistance for brief periods between jobs for me.

My OWN life has not been perfect. However, I don't look to find fault or place blames for any of my misfortunes on other people, the government, Donald Trump, etc.

How do I rate myself a left-winger and a liberal? I believe that governments should raise money openly through taxes and not through speed traps, petty regulations and fines, etc. I support integration in the schools and work place, though I am against affirmative action. I am pro-choice. I believe in the public school system. And I support causes anathema to many conservatives, including legalized marijuana and reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone.

I believe this is consistent with progressivism.

No
 
I support integration in the schools and work place, though I am against affirmative action.


Affirmative Action was never a quota system. That came with Nixon pandering to the radicals of the Black Caucus. A quota system is a racist farce, and never a liberal ideal. I don't know why people have such a problem with that; it was in all the papers, including the fight between the liberals and the radicals who were attempting to turn it into a quota system, via the 'Philadelphia Plan', the 'Cleveland Plan', etc., and won the battles, only to lose the election to Nixon and watch as Nixon gave them their quota system within days of being inaugurated. The quota system effectively destroyed any chance of black ghetto kids ever getting any kind of real education, and proceeded to dumb down the entire education system from top to bottom. Nothing 'liberal' about it, just the opposite.of 'equal opportunity' to compete on a level field.

You're not a real liberal. You support institutionalized racism and discrimination by opposing AA while 'supporting integration', whatever the latter is supposed to mean.
 
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Liberals are a nearly extinct species who used to believe in social welfare programs, equality under the law, and a strong national defense. Also, they were willing to debate their ideas in a respectful manner.

They have now been replaced by Leftists who subscribe to group think, slogans and repression of dissent. The true inheritors of Nazism.

Hitler assassinated Strasser right? I don't think he pulled the trigger so to say but had him killed?

And he also assassinated his right wing rival commanding the Army, and his chief rival, as well. Hitler wasn't a winger himself, just a self-absorbed narcissist any American Burb Brat's mother would be proud of today, and most 'laissez faire libertarians' would easily relate to, but the Party in general was more left wing than right, with Hitler's thugs being loyal only to him personally, not ideologies of any kind.

Look up 'National Bolshevism' at Wiki. It's a good read.
 

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