Can ideas be evil?

[rdean]

There are some posters here who insist that only human action can make something evil. They point out that guns, in and of themselves. are not evil, and they somehow think that justifies their assertion that religions, in and of themselves, are not evil. Apparently, the only thing that is evil is doing evil in the name of a religion.

I think ideas, and even religions that are based on ideas, can be evil. I think the idea behind the Holocaust was evil. I think eugenics is evil. I think that the idea that you can reach paradise if you kill people is evil. I think a religion based on any of those ideas would be evil through and through.

Of course ideas can be evil.

Let him die.

Feed the poor and they'll breed.

Two recent examples.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Try the one I gave in #88, not all the variations of John 7:24. You could continue, but Matthew 7:1 clearly sublimates John 7:24 to the earlier first.

Matthew 7
New International Version (NIV)
Judging Others

7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Buford, go back and read the material, please. Avatar4321 is trying to use one verse to change the solid meaning of another, which you have done as well. Do you have trouble with that?

I think your cartoon applies to you to a T. Thanks for a sharing.

 

[Avatar4321]

Try the one I gave in #88, not all the variations of John 7:24. You could continue, but Matthew 7:1 clearly sublimates John 7:24 to the earlier first.

Matthew 7
New International Version (NIV)
Judging Others

7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Why would I look at post 88 in the thread that doesnt at all mention Christ's command in John 7:24.

John provides context for Matthew. You can ignore them if you want. but we are still commanded to judge.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Because John 7:24 does not over ride the original comments by Christ in Mathew 7, which is the verse that I posted. You posted something else. You provide no context at all.

What Avatar is subtly trying to defend is the LDS King James Version retranslated by Joseph Smith. In other words, another gospel.

Joseph Smith Translation

 

[Avatar4321]

Because John 7:24 does not over ride the original comments by Christ in Mathew 7, which is the verse that I posted. You posted something else. You provide no context at all.

What Avatar is subtly trying to defend is the LDS King James Version retranslated by Joseph Smith. In other words, another gospel.

Joseph Smith Translation

The Gospel of John specifically shows Christ commanding us to judge righteously. Thus it provide context for the Matthew verses. It shows what Christ is saying is that we are judged with the same judgment we use. Which is precisely what verse 2 in Matthew 7 says. With the judgment we use, we will be judged.

I don't see how you can possibly interpret Christ's words to mean that we are to not judge, when He says elsewhere that we are to judge. Especially when it's clear that John 7 is a much clearly articulation to the same point he was making in Matthew.

we are not to judge by appearances, but judge righteously. If we judge by appearances, we will be judged by appearances. If we judge with righteousness, we will be judged with righteousness.

I don't at all see why you want to ignore the clear context provided by Christ's own words.

 

[koshergrl]

There are some posters here who insist that only human action can make something evil. They point out that guns, in and of themselves. are not evil, and they somehow think that justifies their assertion that religions, in and of themselves, are not evil. Apparently, the only thing that is evil is doing evil in the name of a religion.

I think ideas, and even religions that are based on ideas, can be evil. I think the idea behind the Holocaust was evil. I think eugenics is evil. I think that the idea that you can reach paradise if you kill people is evil. I think a religion based on any of those ideas would be evil through and through.

Of course ideas can be evil.

Let him die.

Feed the poor and they'll breed.

Two recent examples.

Feed them and breed them so we can kill them.
A very good example indeed.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Because John 7:24 does not over ride the original comments by Christ in Mathew 7, which is the verse that I posted. You posted something else. You provide no context at all.

What Avatar is subtly trying to defend is the LDS King James Version retranslated by Joseph Smith. In other words, another gospel.

Joseph Smith Translation

The Gospel of John specifically shows Christ commanding us to judge righteously. Thus it provide context for the Matthew verses. It shows what Christ is saying is that we are judged with the same judgment we use. Which is precisely what verse 2 in Matthew 7 says. With the judgment we use, we will be judged.

I don't see how you can possibly interpret Christ's words to mean that we are to not judge, when He says elsewhere that we are to judge. Especially when it's clear that John 7 is a much clearly articulation to the same point he was making in Matthew.

we are not to judge by appearances, but judge righteously. If we judge by appearances, we will be judged by appearances. If we judge with righteousness, we will be judged with righteousness.

I don't at all see why you want to ignore the clear context provided by Christ's own words.

You are ignoring the clear direction of the Sermon on the Mount, and you are also ignoring how JS alter the sentence in Matthew 7.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Because John 7:24 does not over ride the original comments by Christ in Mathew 7, which is the verse that I posted. You posted something else. You provide no context at all.

What Avatar is subtly trying to defend is the LDS King James Version retranslated by Joseph Smith. In other words, another gospel.

Joseph Smith Translation

Are you one of those wackos that get out of jury duty by claiming that the Bible tells us not to judge others?

 

[Avatar4321]

Because John 7:24 does not over ride the original comments by Christ in Mathew 7, which is the verse that I posted. You posted something else. You provide no context at all.

What Avatar is subtly trying to defend is the LDS King James Version retranslated by Joseph Smith. In other words, another gospel.

Joseph Smith Translation

The Gospel of John specifically shows Christ commanding us to judge righteously. Thus it provide context for the Matthew verses. It shows what Christ is saying is that we are judged with the same judgment we use. Which is precisely what verse 2 in Matthew 7 says. With the judgment we use, we will be judged.

I don't see how you can possibly interpret Christ's words to mean that we are to not judge, when He says elsewhere that we are to judge. Especially when it's clear that John 7 is a much clearly articulation to the same point he was making in Matthew.

we are not to judge by appearances, but judge righteously. If we judge by appearances, we will be judged by appearances. If we judge with righteousness, we will be judged with righteousness.

I don't at all see why you want to ignore the clear context provided by Christ's own words.

You are ignoring the clear direction of the Sermon on the Mount, and you are also ignoring how JS alter the sentence in Matthew 7.

I havent ignored anything. In fact, im looking at the Sermon on the Mount in context with Christ's other statements. I havent mentioned anything Joseph said because it's irrelevant to the context.

Stop ignoring John 7:24 where Christ specifically commands us to make righteous judgments. Your interpretation would require us to completely ignore that. Christ was consistant. Your interpretation isnt.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Avatar does not want to tell the whole story. I invite all to The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible | Mormonism Research Ministry and study how Joseph "translated" the Bible into another gospel. Then read Matthew 7 and John 24 in a KJV or a NIV or a Catholic translation, then read Smith's inspired version.

You will see what Avatar is trying to hide.

 

[Avatar4321]

You can look at it all you want. It doesnt change the interpretation of Matthew 7. Doesnt change the fact that it John 7 has Christ specifically commanding us to judge righteously. It doesn't change the fact that there is an entire book of the Bible focused on the men and women God called to judge the people.

 

[JakeStarkey]

It doesn't change that Joseph Smith was mistranslating the Bible.

Shoot, you can't even get Mosiah 4 right, Avatar4321, on government, men's duty, and the poor. http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mosiah/4?lang=eng

 

[JakeStarkey]

Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible - Wikipedia, the free ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith_Translation_of_the_BibleThe Joseph Smith Translation (JST), also called the Inspired Version (IV), was a revision of the Bible by Joseph Smith, the founder of the Latter Day Saint ...
Translation - Doctrinal development - Publication and use by the RLDS
Joseph Smith Translation
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 1, 2012 – ... and Covenants · Pearl of Great Price · Study Helps · Available Formats · Search. Home. LDS.org · Scriptures; Joseph Smith Translation ...
Joseph Smith's Inspired Translation of the Bible - Ensign Dec. 1972 ...
www.lds.org/ensign/.../joseph-smiths-inspired-translation-of-the-bible...Feb 1, 2012 – It is generally known by members of the Church that the Prophet Joseph Smith made what he called a “new translation” of the Bible. What is not ...
Joseph Smith Inspired Version of the Bible - Center Place
The Inspired Version of the Bible
Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible - MormonThink.com: An ...
mormonthink.com/jst.htmJoseph Smith Translation of the Bible, facts, controversies, and contradictions.
Amazon.com: Joseph Smith's "New Translation" of the Bible ...
Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more › Books › Christian Books & Bibles › Reference
Rating: 3.6 - 12 reviews - $20.03 - In stock
Comment: Eligible for *FREE* super saver shipping. Amazon customer service with delivery tracking. A readable copy; good for those who want to save some ...
Examining Joseph Smith's New Translation of the Bible ...
www.irr.org/mit/js-translation-condensed.htmlThis article examines Joseph Smith's claim that God gave him corrections to make to the King James Bible. It quotes Mormon and non-Mormon scholars and ...
Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible (JST) - The Encyclopedia of ...
eom.byu.edu/index.../Joseph_Smith_Translation_of_the_Bible_(JST)Aug 16, 2010 – Joseph Smith, the first prophet of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, made a "new translation" of the Bible, using the text of the ...
Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible - Latter-day Saints - About.com
lds.about.com/b/2008/07/.../joseph-smith-translation-of-the-bible.htmJul 29, 2008 – Joseph Smith was inspired to translate the King James Version of the Bible and many of his revelations are printed in the Bible that is ...
Joseph Smith's Inspired Translation of the Bible
bibtruth.com/jsbib.htmlDiscussing why Joseph Smith's version of the Bible doesn't qualify to be termed a translation, and comparing it with the reliability of modern translations.

 

[Avatar4321]

Except the interpretation is correct.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, JS is twisting scripture, giving a different gospel.

Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible - Wikipedia, the free ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith_Translation_of_the_BibleThe Joseph Smith Translation (JST), also called the Inspired Version (IV), was a revision of the Bible by Joseph Smith, the founder of the Latter Day Saint ...
Translation - Doctrinal development - Publication and use by the RLDS
Joseph Smith Translation
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 1, 2012 – ... and Covenants · Pearl of Great Price · Study Helps · Available Formats · Search. Home. LDS.org · Scriptures; Joseph Smith Translation ...
Joseph Smith's Inspired Translation of the Bible - Ensign Dec. 1972 ...
http://www.lds.org/ensign/.../joseph...he-bible...Feb 1, 2012 – It is generally known by members of the Church that the Prophet Joseph Smith made what he called a “new translation” of the Bible. What is not ...
Joseph Smith Inspired Version of the Bible - Center Place
The Inspired Version of the Bible
Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible - MormonThink.com: An ...
mormonthink.com/jst.htmJoseph Smith Translation of the Bible, facts, controversies, and contradictions.
Amazon.com: Joseph Smith's "New Translation" of the Bible ...
Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more › Books › Christian Books & Bibles › Reference
Rating: 3.6 - 12 reviews - $20.03 - In stock
Comment: Eligible for *FREE* super saver shipping. Amazon customer service with delivery tracking. A readable copy; good for those who want to save some ...
Examining Joseph Smith's New Translation of the Bible ...
http://www.irr.org/mit/js-translatio...ensed.htmlThis article examines Joseph Smith's claim that God gave him corrections to make to the King James Bible. It quotes Mormon and non-Mormon scholars and ...
Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible (JST) - The Encyclopedia of ...
eom.byu.edu/index.../Joseph_Smith_Translation_of_the_Bible_(JST)Aug 16, 2010 – Joseph Smith, the first prophet of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, made a "new translation" of the Bible, using the text of the ...
Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible - Latter-day Saints - About.com
lds.about.com/b/2008/07/.../joseph-smith-translation-of-the-bible.htmJul 29, 2008 – Joseph Smith was inspired to translate the King James Version of the Bible and many of his revelations are printed in the Bible that is ...
Joseph Smith's Inspired Translation of the Bible
bibtruth.com/jsbib.htmlDiscussing why Joseph Smith's version of the Bible doesn't qualify to be termed a translation, and comparing it with the reliability of modern translations.

 

[Avatar4321]

Are you seriously trying to claim that Christ did not command us to judge despite what John 7 specifically says?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am seriously trying to get you to admit that Joseph Smith altered scripture.

 

[Avatar4321]

I am seriously trying to get you to admit that Joseph Smith altered scripture.

Ive never denied that Joseph Smith translated the KJV of the Bible through the inspiration of the Spirit. That's totally irrelevant to the scriptures in question.

 

[JakeStarkey]

When JS is altering scriptures, it is totally relevant.

 

[Avatar4321]

When JS is altering scriptures, it is totally relevant.

Not when we arent talking about him.