CDZ Can Hurricane deaths 5 months after Hurricane be blamed on Trump?

[eagle1462010]

The Puerto Rican government is completely corrupt, and the deaths attributed to the Hurricane? Are now being counted 5 months out in an obvious attempt to attack Trump....is this fair?

The politics of calculating hurricane deaths

Here’s where we run into trouble. Look at the description of the methodology they used. It’s based on “a careful examination of all of the deaths officially reported to the government of Puerto Rico between September 2017 and February 2018… using state-of-the-art mathematical modeling to compare the total number of deaths during that time to the expected number of deaths, based on historical patterns as well as age, sex, socioeconomic status and migration from the island.”

They’re counting deaths which took place five months after the storm had passed.

Pardon my incredulousness over such a serious matter, but when did we start defining hurricane deaths in this fashion? When we think of people dying in a hurricane, we picture those who are washed out to sea, struck by flying debris, trapped under collapsed buildings, drowned in rising storm surge waters or even expiring from exposure while trapped on their roofs awaiting rescue. But at some point the storm is over and the immediate rescue and recovery operations are complete. People no doubt suffer ill effects from a deadly storm for some time to come, but that’s largely a matter of how good the medical and social support services available to them happen to be.

------

This new study of Maria, as indicated above, was looking at the number of people who probably would have died on average in each month following the storm going out to February fo the following year. Then they looked at the number of actual death certificates they could find (no matter what they died of) and any in excess of the projection were attributed to the storm. Five. Months. Later.

I’m not saying that there was or wasn’t any political bias involved in the compilation of the Milken Institute study, but that’s really not the point. The question is whether or not this is actual science. If you’re suggesting that every person who gets sick and dies months after a storm comes through because the infrastructure is inadequate, or medical supplies aren’t available, or because they were bitten by a dog who might have been too hungry because he lost his owners in the storm, are directly attributable to the hurricane, then… please.

every person who gets sick and dies months after a storm comes through because the infrastructure is inadequate, or medical supplies aren’t available,
Do you not think it is possible and reasonable to look to the devastation of the roads and the ongoing lack of electricity and supplies as being factors for higher than normal death rates after Maria?
I know it is very unusual to put a death count that far out after a hurricane, but Maria was a very unusual circumstance, wasn't it? Perhaps we should have poured extensive resources into Puerto Rico to rebuild it, regardless of whose "responsibility" it was. But we don't like to spend money on Puerto Rico, do we? They are a poor relation, usually ignored. We won't make them a state because they are too broke.

Every election Puerto Rico is asked if they'd like to be part of the United States............and every vote for that .........they say no.

Google is your friend. It can help you from making bullshit claims like PR never wanted to be a state.

Statehood movement in Puerto Rico - Wikipedia

The statehood movement in Puerto Rico aims to make Puerto Rico a state of the United States. Five referenda have been held on the topic, most recently in 2017. The population of Puerto Rico as of 2015 was over 3 million people and larger than 21 states.[1].

In November 2012, a referendum, the fourth as of that date, was held. A full 54.00% voted "No" to maintaining the current political status. Of those who voted against remaining a Commonwealth, 61.11% chose statehood, 33.34% chose free association, and 5.55% chose independence.[2][3][4][5] On December 11, 2012, the Legislative Assembly of Puerto Rico enacted a concurrent resolution requesting the President and the Congress of the United States to respond diligently and effectively on the demand of the people of Puerto Rico to end its current political status and to begin the transition of Puerto Rico to become a state of the union.[6]

In 2014, resolutions were introduced in both houses of the United States Congress (H.R. 2000; S. 2020) to hold a yes-or-no referendum among the residents of Puerto Rico on statehood. If a "yes" majority prevailed, the President would have been required to submit legislation to Congress enacting Puerto Rican statehood.[7][8] Both resolutions died in committee.[9]

A fifth referendum was held on June 11, 2017. Those who voted overwhelmingly chose statehood by 97.18% with 1.50% favoring independence and 1.32% maintaining commonwealth status; turnout, however, was 23%, a historically low figure.[10] This figure is attributed to a boycott led by the pro-status quo PPD party.[11]

After Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico, in June 2018, Rep. Jenniffer González filed a bill that would pave way for Puerto Rico to become a state in 2021.[12]

As I told Old Lady..........I was unaware they had agreed to it.............We are rebuilding the place........but you have to admit they are corrupt and bankrupt........Nearly 46% in poverty before the storm hit...........
1/3rd of the power knocked out during Irma........
Power grid was unstable before the storm
Hospital generators undersized and old......were replaced by FEMA generators..........

All 3 main transmission lines destroyed............
Power capacity below the Islands needs before either storm....
All the solar and wind farms completely destroyed........that with Hydro only produced 2.4% of the Island's power.
Main dam overflowed and destroyed the spill ways from the dam........dam was damaged......so that entire thing had to be shored up and will need to be replaced.
River changed course after the storm......Corps had to put in a levee to force it back to where it used to be..........

just some that I've read about.

 

[eagle1462010]

Umm...................you DO know that PR is not the Virgin Islands, right? They are separated by approx. 179 km of open water.

Yeah..........so ..........the argument was made by some that there was no Navy presence there........that was in response to that.........They were indeed there..........as a matter of fact that same group picked up FEMA workers in Puerto Rico before Maria hit for their safety.

So .......yeah..........I knew that.

Showing Navy ships in the VI isn't a response to PR. Why? Because 179 km is too far to do any kind of VERTREP (helo replenishment), nor can you shoot a cable across the two islands for an UNREP. How do I know these things? Because I was stationed on a combat stores ship my first tour. The max they would do for helo replenishment was around 5 miles or less.

BS........as I stated they were in the area and they were in Puerto Rico........the video was showing their ops in the region.......they pulled back into Puerto Rican waters right behind the storm.........

I repeat...........that was showing a poster that they were already in the area........he stated they weren't there at all...........

Now you are playing the stupid little game that I don't know how to read a map.........I've been to Puerto Rico......I'm well aware how to find the place on a map.............how about you.........

Were they there assisting or not................hmmmm

 

[ABikerSailor]

Umm...................you DO know that PR is not the Virgin Islands, right? They are separated by approx. 179 km of open water.

Yeah..........so ..........the argument was made by some that there was no Navy presence there........that was in response to that.........They were indeed there..........as a matter of fact that same group picked up FEMA workers in Puerto Rico before Maria hit for their safety.

So .......yeah..........I knew that.

Showing Navy ships in the VI isn't a response to PR. Why? Because 179 km is too far to do any kind of VERTREP (helo replenishment), nor can you shoot a cable across the two islands for an UNREP. How do I know these things? Because I was stationed on a combat stores ship my first tour. The max they would do for helo replenishment was around 5 miles or less.

BS........as I stated they were in the area and they were in Puerto Rico........the video was showing their ops in the region.......they pulled back into Puerto Rican waters right behind the storm.........

I repeat...........that was showing a poster that they were already in the area........he stated they weren't there at all...........

Now you are playing the stupid little game that I don't know how to read a map.........I've been to Puerto Rico......I'm well aware how to find the place on a map.............how about you.........

Were they there assisting or not................hmmmm

A distance like that would take a ship around 8 hours (a days travel), to get from the VI to PR.

 

[eagle1462010]

Umm...................you DO know that PR is not the Virgin Islands, right? They are separated by approx. 179 km of open water.

Yeah..........so ..........the argument was made by some that there was no Navy presence there........that was in response to that.........They were indeed there..........as a matter of fact that same group picked up FEMA workers in Puerto Rico before Maria hit for their safety.

So .......yeah..........I knew that.

Showing Navy ships in the VI isn't a response to PR. Why? Because 179 km is too far to do any kind of VERTREP (helo replenishment), nor can you shoot a cable across the two islands for an UNREP. How do I know these things? Because I was stationed on a combat stores ship my first tour. The max they would do for helo replenishment was around 5 miles or less.

BS........as I stated they were in the area and they were in Puerto Rico........the video was showing their ops in the region.......they pulled back into Puerto Rican waters right behind the storm.........

I repeat...........that was showing a poster that they were already in the area........he stated they weren't there at all...........

Now you are playing the stupid little game that I don't know how to read a map.........I've been to Puerto Rico......I'm well aware how to find the place on a map.............how about you.........

Were they there assisting or not................hmmmm

A distance like that would take a ship around 8 hours (a days travel), to get from the VI to PR.

So..........they picked up people to get them to safety so they wouldn't be caught in the storm..........and then came in behind the storm to Puerto Rico.

What's you point..................people have been saying they weren't there at all.........and that was what I'm addressing and have been addressing........the BLATANT LIES being posted.......

 

[Weatherman2020]

The Puerto Rican government is completely corrupt, and the deaths attributed to the Hurricane? Are now being counted 5 months out in an obvious attempt to attack Trump....is this fair?

Completely. Trump is in Charge of FEMA, the organization that is supposed to respond to disasters and get a region like this back on their feet after a disaster.

Completely. Trump is in Charge of FEMA, the organization that is supposed to respond to disasters and get a region like this back on their feet after a disaster.

So Obama is responsible for all of the terrorist attacks in America, Benghazi, and every crime from 2009-2016.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[eagle1462010]

Dirt roads....thru the jungle and the mountains........destroyed........Main transmission lines from the South to the North......

Anybody think it would be easy to replace that after a Cat 5 went through there............hmmm

Let me add something.....62000 poles needed to be replaced from the initial estimate.

 

[eagle1462010]

Main transmission line ..............after a hurricane in the United States.....most of ours are still standing..........they are built to withstand the storms......so even if they have to replace some lines........they don't have to replace every structure after a storm.

 

[eagle1462010]

Whitefish – Energy

 

[eagle1462010]

https://www.whitefishenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/FINAL_WEH-final-report-news-release-2.pdf

Flying linemen perform surgery on Puerto Rico's electricity spine - CNN

Okay.........digging...it's what I do........

Whitefish energy repaired the main transmission lines through the jungle from the South to San Juan in about a little over a month........
They repaired the North coast line transmission lines at the same time........
They did it with helo's flying people to perch on top of the towers and flew the equipment to location......a real high wire act.

Then they left it to the local utility to restore the neighborhoods around the grid...........rut ro........

In the CNN site posted above...........watch the video........in that video a small hospital......basically a clinic didn't have power........they received 5 generators as donations to get the power back on........but couldn't install it without permission from the MAYOR'S OFFICE..........You know the lady running around saying how everyone sucks on TV...........standing in front of supplies.........

Well MAYOR.........why do they need a permission slip from you to install the generators and why did that get delayed......interesting.........

 

[frigidweirdo]

The Puerto Rican government is completely corrupt, and the deaths attributed to the Hurricane? Are now being counted 5 months out in an obvious attempt to attack Trump....is this fair?

The politics of calculating hurricane deaths

Here’s where we run into trouble. Look at the description of the methodology they used. It’s based on “a careful examination of all of the deaths officially reported to the government of Puerto Rico between September 2017 and February 2018… using state-of-the-art mathematical modeling to compare the total number of deaths during that time to the expected number of deaths, based on historical patterns as well as age, sex, socioeconomic status and migration from the island.”

They’re counting deaths which took place five months after the storm had passed.

Pardon my incredulousness over such a serious matter, but when did we start defining hurricane deaths in this fashion? When we think of people dying in a hurricane, we picture those who are washed out to sea, struck by flying debris, trapped under collapsed buildings, drowned in rising storm surge waters or even expiring from exposure while trapped on their roofs awaiting rescue. But at some point the storm is over and the immediate rescue and recovery operations are complete. People no doubt suffer ill effects from a deadly storm for some time to come, but that’s largely a matter of how good the medical and social support services available to them happen to be.

------

This new study of Maria, as indicated above, was looking at the number of people who probably would have died on average in each month following the storm going out to February fo the following year. Then they looked at the number of actual death certificates they could find (no matter what they died of) and any in excess of the projection were attributed to the storm. Five. Months. Later.

I’m not saying that there was or wasn’t any political bias involved in the compilation of the Milken Institute study, but that’s really not the point. The question is whether or not this is actual science. If you’re suggesting that every person who gets sick and dies months after a storm comes through because the infrastructure is inadequate, or medical supplies aren’t available, or because they were bitten by a dog who might have been too hungry because he lost his owners in the storm, are directly attributable to the hurricane, then… please.

Is Trump president or not?

Fuck, he's taking credit for the economy doing well when he did nothing, now he doesn't want to take the blame for problems that are happening. What a fucking surprise.

That's great liberal logic.
I want to blame Bill Clinton for the space shuttle crash because he was the president when it happened.
That makes about as much sense.

Problem is dude, is that this is Trump's logic, and his follower's logic.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The Puerto Rican government is completely corrupt, and the deaths attributed to the Hurricane? Are now being counted 5 months out in an obvious attempt to attack Trump....is this fair?

The politics of calculating hurricane deaths

Here’s where we run into trouble. Look at the description of the methodology they used. It’s based on “a careful examination of all of the deaths officially reported to the government of Puerto Rico between September 2017 and February 2018… using state-of-the-art mathematical modeling to compare the total number of deaths during that time to the expected number of deaths, based on historical patterns as well as age, sex, socioeconomic status and migration from the island.”

They’re counting deaths which took place five months after the storm had passed.

Pardon my incredulousness over such a serious matter, but when did we start defining hurricane deaths in this fashion? When we think of people dying in a hurricane, we picture those who are washed out to sea, struck by flying debris, trapped under collapsed buildings, drowned in rising storm surge waters or even expiring from exposure while trapped on their roofs awaiting rescue. But at some point the storm is over and the immediate rescue and recovery operations are complete. People no doubt suffer ill effects from a deadly storm for some time to come, but that’s largely a matter of how good the medical and social support services available to them happen to be.

------

This new study of Maria, as indicated above, was looking at the number of people who probably would have died on average in each month following the storm going out to February fo the following year. Then they looked at the number of actual death certificates they could find (no matter what they died of) and any in excess of the projection were attributed to the storm. Five. Months. Later.

I’m not saying that there was or wasn’t any political bias involved in the compilation of the Milken Institute study, but that’s really not the point. The question is whether or not this is actual science. If you’re suggesting that every person who gets sick and dies months after a storm comes through because the infrastructure is inadequate, or medical supplies aren’t available, or because they were bitten by a dog who might have been too hungry because he lost his owners in the storm, are directly attributable to the hurricane, then… please.

Is Trump president or not?

Fuck, he's taking credit for the economy doing well when he did nothing, now he doesn't want to take the blame for problems that are happening. What a fucking surprise.

Illogical and you contradict yourself in this little post.

Trump is responsible for hurricane deaths during his presidency, but not responsible for the economy during his presidency. LOL.

Well, that'd be assuming that I said this.

What I'm pointing out is that Trump will take any success as his success and is pinning all failure on other people.

That’s funny. You condemn him for not accepting blame for hurricane deaths and also condemn him for taking credit for the economy. You stated he is not responsible for the economy.

You can’t have it both ways.

Though I'm not condemning at all. I'm pointing out the situation.

 

[JoeB131]

Anti-religion bigots always seem to think their own ignorance is a point of pride. Curious.

Not at all... it's kind of a valid question. If God exists, why do hurricanes destroy churches but leave strip joints intact.

 

[Toronado3800]

The Puerto Rican government is completely corrupt, and the deaths attributed to the Hurricane? Are now being counted 5 months out in an obvious attempt to attack Trump....is this fair?

The politics of calculating hurricane deaths

Here’s where we run into trouble. Look at the description of the methodology they used. It’s based on “a careful examination of all of the deaths officially reported to the government of Puerto Rico between September 2017 and February 2018… using state-of-the-art mathematical modeling to compare the total number of deaths during that time to the expected number of deaths, based on historical patterns as well as age, sex, socioeconomic status and migration from the island.”

They’re counting deaths which took place five months after the storm had passed.

Pardon my incredulousness over such a serious matter, but when did we start defining hurricane deaths in this fashion? When we think of people dying in a hurricane, we picture those who are washed out to sea, struck by flying debris, trapped under collapsed buildings, drowned in rising storm surge waters or even expiring from exposure while trapped on their roofs awaiting rescue. But at some point the storm is over and the immediate rescue and recovery operations are complete. People no doubt suffer ill effects from a deadly storm for some time to come, but that’s largely a matter of how good the medical and social support services available to them happen to be.

------

This new study of Maria, as indicated above, was looking at the number of people who probably would have died on average in each month following the storm going out to February fo the following year. Then they looked at the number of actual death certificates they could find (no matter what they died of) and any in excess of the projection were attributed to the storm. Five. Months. Later.

I’m not saying that there was or wasn’t any political bias involved in the compilation of the Milken Institute study, but that’s really not the point. The question is whether or not this is actual science. If you’re suggesting that every person who gets sick and dies months after a storm comes through because the infrastructure is inadequate, or medical supplies aren’t available, or because they were bitten by a dog who might have been too hungry because he lost his owners in the storm, are directly attributable to the hurricane, then… please.

This has hopefully been stated but if I die due to dysentery 5 months after the hurricane I should be counted as a hurricane death because people just don't die of dysentery en mass here.

If I die of a heart attack rebuilding my roof......eh, split the difference and count me as a 1/2. I might have died two months later of a heart attack mowing just as easily or maybe my new w/o electricity life style just wasn't conducive to living until 75.

Interesting though the conditions on that island. Guess there is no longer a need to make it a shining bastion of capitalism so the commies next door look bad.