Can government be expected to make life "fair"?

Most Americans, to their credit, just want to feel they got a fair shot.


Agreed. Hence the increasing unpopularity of Obama's Big Government Putsch which takes way individuals' abilities to earn their own fair shot.

That's not what he said. He said most Americans want to feel they got a fair shot.

So with that, please explain how Obama is taking away an individuals ability to get a fair shot? I really want to know.


By seizing more of their money so they can't use it to better their own lives.

Most people would rather take care of themselves.
 
By seizing more of their money so they can't use it to better their own lives.

Most people would rather take care of themselves.

By seizing who's money?

Obama only wants to raise taxes for the people who make over 250K. So again, explain to me how that's taking away everybodies chance at bettering their own life?
 
By seizing more of their money so they can't use it to better their own lives.

Most people would rather take care of themselves.

By seizing who's money?

Obama only wants to raise taxes for the people who make over 250K. So again, explain to me how that's taking away everybodies chance at bettering their own life?

When you're going after the 250K crowd you do realise that you're hitting small businesse's in this country. And small business is still the largest employer in this nation. They are already in the tank--what is going to discourage them from expanding their business'es so that they'll hire new employees--is a TAX hike on their income.

Very DUMB idea--especially knowing that only 5% of the entire population in the nation make 250K per year--and only 1% make over 300K.

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.
Adrian Rogers, 1931
 
Small business is still the largest employer in this nation.

I'm well aware of that fact

Very DUMB idea--especially knowing that only 5% of the entire population in the nation make 250K per year--and only 1% make over 300K.

Thanks for proving my point. If small businesses are in the upper 5% when it comes to income per year then I'll be damned. :lol:
 
No matter what party is in power, we will always have public assistance and consumer protection programs. Congress needs to be able to determine whether the benefits out weight the cost. Programs are cut or funded based more on political ideology and public perception with little regard for the true value of the programs. Until legislators can remove the red or blue filters that they see everything through, then we will continue to waste billions on worthless programs while valuable programs are unfunded.
 
∑₭o Đ∆Żə;2755637 said:
I'll bet there are those who would call 'fairness' the rewarding of failure and incompetence, and the penalizing of success and excellence.

Who?

You're indulging in a Strawman argument here. As I said, I've never seen one person on this board, or for that matter out in the real world, advocate government focing total equality on a financial level.

Most Americans, to their credit, just want to feel they got a fair shot.

Are you certain it's a Strawman?
 
∑₭o Đ∆Żə;2755774 said:
So rikules, where exactly do you see "big black dogs" getting eaten in our society, and what do you propose we should do about it?

I didn't say that I see it happening

but it did happen long ago, back in the late 1800's and early 1900's

government backed big business was "employing" people for slave wages, making them work 12-16 hour days, 6 days a week, quite often in unhealthy working conditions, while these workers lived in shacks and shambles and poverty

what was done about it?

unions, and SOME politicians worked together to establish fairer employment policies and practices; more reasonable working hours, 5 day work week, healthier working conditions, health and dental benefits, holidays, vacations....

some people have expressed a dog eat dog attitude with regards to government and the capitalistic system; basically stating that the government should NOT BE HELPING the workers but, instead, should let employers/big business/the "capitalists" do as they please...

if left to do as they please I have no doubt we'd all be working 16 hours, 6 days a week, in unhealthy conditions and living in shacks again...

is THAT the kind of country you want?

how many weeks vacation do you get each year (thanks to government getting involved in capitalism)?

do you work in healthy conditions? (thanks to goverment involvement)


Some of the posters seem to believe that a truly great America would be one in which 90% of the population lived in shacks, worked 6 days a week, never got a vacation, had no health care, couldn't afford to feed their own children etc....just so multi millionares could become multi billionares

1) Glad we're well past the industrial revolution days.

2) I have no problem with government regulation of free-enterprise -- as long as it reamins free-enterprise in private hands.

3) Another Strawman perhaps?
 
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Let's start with some facts; no one (that I've ever heard of) dies in the U.S. from lack of medical attention, there are plenty of government subsidized health plans, as well as the good ol' "hit the emergency room and ditch" plan which still works today.

Last year my icu nurse friend had to watch a man die because he couldn't afford to get his abscessed tooth treated and was end-stage by the time he collapsed and his work-place called an ambulance.

So, there's that.

Didn't Dolly say money was like manure and it needed to get spread around? Wouldn't an increase in taxes on personal income takene by S Corps spur reinvestment into the business to avoid the taxation?
 
∑₭o Đ∆Żə;2752406 said:
" The other is that government has the responsibility to ensure equal outcomes in every situation, regardless of the individual's actions and/or the level of their participation.

Who espouses that philosophy, exactly? Name names, and back it up with substantive evidence.
 
By seizing more of their money so they can't use it to better their own lives.

Most people would rather take care of themselves.

By seizing who's money?

Obama only wants to raise taxes for the people who make over 250K. So again, explain to me how that's taking away everybodies chance at bettering their own life?

When you're going after the 250K crowd you do realise that you're hitting small businesse's in this country. And small business is still the largest employer in this nation. They are already in the tank--what is going to discourage them from expanding their business'es so that they'll hire new employees--is a TAX hike on their income.

Very DUMB idea--especially knowing that only 5% of the entire population in the nation make 250K per year--and only 1% make over 300K.

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.
Adrian Rogers, 1931
There is a lot of misunderstanding, or should I say distortion about the tax bill. For businesses, the tax is on net income which is after all deductions such as cost of goods sold, all salaries, advertising, interest, depreciation,etc.. Very few small businesses would be effected. The bill that gives tax breaks to small business which just passed the senate will provide substantial tax breaks for small businesses.

For individual return the $250,000 cutoff is not gross income but adjusted gross. So a person could have an income considerably higher than $250,000 and still not be effected.


Skipping to the Piccolo: Why Obama's tax plan works — even for Joe the Plumber
FactCheck.org: What percentage of the U.S. population makes more than $250,000 per year?
Will Obama's Tax Plan Will Cripple Small Business Owners?
 
∑₭o Đ∆Żə;2752406 said:
" The other is that government has the responsibility to ensure equal outcomes in every situation, regardless of the individual's actions and/or the level of their participation.

Who espouses that philosophy, exactly? Name names, and back it up with substantive evidence.

Fidel Castro, Kim Yong-Il, Wen Jiabao, and yes probably Barack Obama. This is the central philosophy of socialism and communism. Pick up a copy of the Communist Manifesto and see what you think. But you already knew this didn't you? Could we please quit pretending to be so clueless here?
 
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∑₭o Đ∆Żə;2756833 said:
∑₭o Đ∆Żə;2752406 said:
" The other is that government has the responsibility to ensure equal outcomes in every situation, regardless of the individual's actions and/or the level of their participation.

Who espouses that philosophy, exactly? Name names, and back it up with substantive evidence.

Fidel Castro, Kim Yong-Il, Wen Jiabao, and yes probably Barack Obama. This is the central philosophy of socialism and communism. Pick up a copy of the Communist Manifesto and see what you think. But you already knew this didn't you? Could we please quit pretending to be so clueless here?
Oh it isnt a game , the bird with do this kind of thing .then stuff a nice strawman all by herself.
It is a real unrewarding waste of time dealing with that one .
 

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