Can Democrats hold their majority?

Apr 28, 2009
19
2
0
I have quantitative evidence to suggest that Democrats cannot hold their majority, and that the United States is trending toward a long term and eventual Social-Conservative Consensus.

Let me explain a few terms I have used, to better illustrate how much I have said in my thesis. Consensus refers to the last American consensus, which was the Democratic consensus essentially from 1933-1981. The Consensus saw the Democratic Party coalition include so many interests (partisans) that it had control over the House and often the Senate through-out a substantial majority of those years, if not all of them. This saw the Democratic party progressively alter the United States in a liberal course, toward various social liberal agendas, as well as socialistic agendas, which culminated in first the abandonment of the Democratic Party by Conservatives (to the Republican Party) and second the Reagan Revolution which saw the end of the American consensus, and the public became divided against liberal and conservative.

The question becomes whither are we trending? I believe I have a convincing argument that the country is trending toward Republican and socially conservative partisanship and that it will be revealed in the next elections, now here's why.

McCain worked about 84% as hard for each electoral vote he won, or that is to say that Barack Obama worked 118% as hard for each electoral vote he won, that is to say that comparatively, Obama had to work about 71% harder to win the election.

The amount of electoral votes won is less important in determining data, because the US is a winner-takes-all system. To put into comparison though, Reagan won 44 states twice, and won as many as 49 states. Obama won 28 states, this being as popular as he is purported to be, and following such an unpopular presidency, should be revealing in itself.

But quantitatively Obama had to work 71% harder than McCain.

This is significant, if taken across the board, that means that the Democratic Party to compete with the Republican Party has to raise 71% more money, has to win 71% more votes (translates as a margin of about 14 points) and we see this is the case in "leans Democratic states" where states leaning Democratic (such as Nevada) lean Democratic by 12 points but realistically will seat 5 Republican Congressional Members in 2012 out of 6 Congressional Appointments. Democrats tend to have to poll ahead of Republicans by a margin of 5-10 for Democrats to even see a seat as viable and thus put money into the campaign. For this reason, many seats in the South are left unfunded and unopposed, and Republicans win by 99% against marginal 3rd party candidates.

Republicans play that game too, and there are Democratic seats unchallenged; but on a national level, Republicans simply are in a better position to win more Congressional seats, and to win more Electoral votes.

Perusing CQPolitics one can find the congressional map which is interactive, and you can see for yourself how many of these Democratic Seats in the House were won by 1% or less margins.

So most of the current Democratic majority is won by narrow victories.

The Data I will present at the end, ignores this fact, I counted North Carolina and Florida for Obama even though those states was won by Obama by 0.4% and 2.5% respectively.

So, because of the distribution of the conservatives and particularly social conservatives through-out the US, what we will see is that Democrats will have to work increasingly hard to keep a majority, and owed to the rigors of "majority" (the failures that mount up during any administration and majority party holding of Congress) the Democrats will have smaller, shorter terms of majorities against Republicans.

The other way of stating this is the safe Democrats are fewer than the safe Republicans.

Further evidence that the trend is toward Conservatism comes from the "NEW YORK TIMES PRESIDENT MAP" which has an interactive function that is "voting shifts" and it clearly shows that despite Obama's election the United States is decidedly MORE REPUBLICAN presently, than it was in 2000, 1996, or 1992.

I do not believe the Democrats can hold a new American Consensus against all of this quantitative evidence to the contrary, rather the Republicans will experience a rebound, and the Democrats will have increasingly difficult times in keeping their majority until a time when the equilibrium is found somewhere to the "Centre-Right" of the spectrum.

This naturally is the opposite view held by the mainstream media but they really don't know what they are talking about.

The action of the Democrats in pork-barrel spending suggests that the Democrats view themselves as uncompetitive in the Federal-Electoral system and are trying to 'buy' as much support as they can since they have less and less partisan support.

I'll post my data as a second post for size concerns.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Banned
  • #2
The following data represents electoral votes won by each candidate by the votes it took to win each state for that candidate. The errors (omission of territories and D.C.) distort the data in Obama's favor, Obama's work is more than is stated, but the error is marginal and probably amounts to a point or less.

Democrat
Votes
in Blue
States

1547632
978605
7441458
531884
1216793
464458
1573323
818240
1670474
3319237
1367264
2867680
2708685
3192316
2085051
255394
1612692
1958370
2123390
4143957
4363386
994320
281209
1891083
219105
384591
421484
324918

50756999

Votes per 365 Electoral
139060.27

Republican
Votes
in Red
States

400989
568610
1132560
192631
241816
160639
168523
203019
448801
685541
959502
4467748
1445812
632672
1147603
1043264
1470160
687266
1264879
2048244
1018756

20389035

Votes per 173 Electoral
117855.69

Total votes applicable to each Electoral Vote
256915.96

Popular Vote per Candidate with adjusted values
McCain Obama
45.8% 54.1%

Ratio equalling work by party for each Electoral vote
1.1799
 
Elections hinge on conditions not projections.

There is no way to say what the future will bring when the next potus election is years away.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Banned
  • #4
The 5th column. The US Census.

The US Census also gives the Republicans about a +32 competitive advantage (suggesting that losses from Democratic States would translate as losses of Democratic Congressmen and the gains in Republican States would translate as gains in Republican Congressmen).

This +32 switch, coming at a time when Democrats will be highly unpopular (2012), mixed with the steady shift of partisan favorship due to the rigors of administration and majority, and taking into account the fact that Democrats are already having to kick it into the highest gear....

Republicans worked 84%

Democrats worked 118%

In 2008...

All this suggests, honestly, to me, that the Democratic Party is facing collapse by 2012 and that by 2012 a new American consensus shaped around the Republican Party will emerge.
 
As long as the Small Tent Republicans require a litmus test to run for the party, the answer is "yes," quite easily in fact. There simply are not enough social conservatives to win broad elections.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Banned
  • #6
Elections hinge on conditions not projections.

There is no way to say what the future will bring when the next potus election is years away.

Actually there is. No on in 1856 would have suggested that the South could have elected another President in 1860. The South knew it was impossible as did the North, because of the obvious partisan differences between those regions, and the disparities of their electoral apportionments.

The result was the South's departure from the Democratic Party to form their own Southern Democrat candidacy as a show of positioning; because the Northern Democrats were pushing too hard against Slavery and was seen as impotent to the Republicans by 1858.

While many things do go into influencing elections; no one would say that California would vote for a Republican President in 2012 for the same reasons I have stated that the Democratic Party is incapable of holding what ground they've taken.

The quantitative evidence simply stands against it.

The Democratic Party will fall in the next few election cycles.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Banned
  • #8
As long as the Small Tent Republicans require a litmus test to run for the party, the answer is "yes," quite easily in fact. There simply are not enough social conservatives to win broad elections.

Really? Is that why the Republicans only had to put out 81% effort and the Democrats had to put out 118% effort to win the votes they did?

To put it into a numerical perspective; the Democrats required:

50,000,000 votes to win 68% of the Electoral votes.

Republicans required:

20,000,000 votes to win 32% of the Electoral votes.

That means 28% of Republicans won 32% of the Electoral votes in arguably the worst election climate.

Do you not understand that this means that the Republicans are better geographically positioned to win Federal Electoral Votes?
 
  • Thread starter
  • Banned
  • #9
Of course they could, and on the other hand, they may not.

If the Democratic Party may not collapse, then explain the Democratic behavior as of late. Massive spending to pump Federal Money into Blue States. Massive spending to give Democratic donates huge government contracts.

Do you think this is because of ideological fallibility? Or would you hedge the bet that the Democratic Party has run the statistics and know that they are in an inferior position geographically and fighting against a growing trend of conservative realignment?

They need propaganda and to get it they need to dole out the money to their constituents directly; not simply a fair handout of tax breaks to everyone.

To compare, when Bush was elected as a "Uniter" not a "Divider" in 2000, Karl Rove looked at the statistics and realized that the Republican Party could not reach out to the moderates because it lost more Republicans to libertarians and apathy than it gained in moderates or conservative Democrats.

Consequently an even more partisan election in 2004 saw Bush win by a clear victory against Kerry, even though the Republicans had fewer moderates voting for them.

In 2008, McCain did not even try to excite partisanship, and the result was large Republican apathy, and many Republican states at least Presidentially, lost to Obama by a VERY narrow margin which I did not take into account.

So Obama had to work even HARDER for the safe votes he won; and saw gains in some Southern and Western states pretty much by miracle.
 
You do not clearly state your quantitative conclusions clearly. For example, what do you mean that McCain had to work 84% as hard for each electoral vote? Can you give evidence that Obama had to work 71% harder? And what do you mean by that? You just state it as fact and offer no evidence.

You also make assumptions that are logical fallacies, or at least you appear to because you do not explain clearly. For example, you say that Obama has to raise 71% more money. Your assumption is that there is a linear relationship between money and votes. This is not the case. For example, in the 2006 elections, Barron's did an analysis of the money spent on Congressional races and found that Republicans had outraised the Democrats. Based on this, Barron's predicted that the GOP would win 220-230 seats. We know what happened.

You are also ignoring the fact that the fewest amount of Americans consider themselves Republicans - I believe the number is 21% - in the history of polling.

Of course, anything can happen in politics, and four years is an eternity. However, the hardcore base of the Republican party is driving moderates and centrists away. You cannot win national elections solely with your political base. A party needs a broader appeal. And now, the Republicans are engaged in fratricide and making the party less broad to satisfy the strident ideologues rather than to win elections.
 
BTW, if you are so sure of your analysis, why don't you lay down some real money and put your money where you mouth is?

You can bet on the outcome of elections on Intrade.

Intrade Prediction Markets

The bid-ask spread for the Republicans re-capturing the Senate in 2010 is 5-12, meaning that if you bet $5-$12 on the GOP recapturing the Senate, you win $100. Those are pretty good odds if you are so sure of yourself. The Democrats are quoted at 89-95.

The odds on the House are 15-24 for the Republicans and 77-82 for the Democrats. For the 2012 Presidential election, its 30 for the Republicans and 70 for the Democrats.
 
I understand I cannot articulate it as well as I hope, but glad you decide to ask questions so we can work through this.

You do not clearly state your quantitative conclusions clearly. For example, what do you mean that McCain had to work 84% as hard for each electoral vote? Can you give evidence that Obama had to work 71% harder? And what do you mean by that? You just state it as fact and offer no evidence.

The evidence is my methodology which is illustrated through the calculations in my second post. I do not show "all my work" but it should be sufficient to see what I did so you know it's not "fuzzy math".

The work done is relative toward each other and represents the work done for that campaign but I am not going to compile extensive data to show broader trends which would show just how much work is actually being done. Let me try to describe all that:

First, Obama worked relative to McCain, 118% more work than McCain, conversely McCain did only 84% of the work of Obama. This could mean McCain just didn't try hard enough to win a few certain states which would have changed that work ratio. Because McCain lost major states by narrow margins, as I have said Obama has had to work harder for his safe states than McCain (all of McCain's states were well within safe margins of victory). So basically Republicans only lost those states that the Democrats fought extremely hard to win and they couldn't win any more than that without much more work.

Reagan, conversely, won 44 states twice...so the Republicans historically have not had to work so hard to win "Democratic Strongholds". Other factors change the strengths of Democratic States, but Republican States tend to be strong based on ideology alone and rarely fluctuate for any reason other than socially conservative values.


You also make assumptions that are logical fallacies, or at least you appear to because you do not explain clearly. For example, you say that Obama has to raise 71% more money. Your assumption is that there is a linear relationship between money and votes. This is not the case. For example, in the 2006 elections, Barron's did an analysis of the money spent on Congressional races and found that Republicans had outraised the Democrats. Based on this, Barron's predicted that the GOP would win 220-230 seats. We know what happened.

There is a clear assumption between linear relationship, rather I just wanted to display an example of what it would mean if that were true, it would suggest that Obama would have to spend 71% more money, and so forth...

We can calculate using these numbers and the amount of money that each candidate spent, to show how much money had been spent to equal that much work. Since that data is in hind sight it only allows us to say "had such and such spent this much more he would have gained this much more votes".

Because McCain needed 110,000 votes for each electoral vote you could actually say from this that "each electoral vote is worth 110,000 persons, each person is worth so much campaign dollars. So we need to spend this much money on this state to turn that state Red."

It's not linear or even coeval but it is a rough approximate.

Regarding Barron's, the Republicans raised more money, but did not SPEND all of that money. There's a difference. And Republicans were fighting for a lot of liberal leaning seats they had won on the Bush wave.

You are also ignoring the fact that the fewest amount of Americans consider themselves Republicans - I believe the number is 21% - in the history of polling.

Of course, anything can happen in politics, and four years is an eternity. However, the hardcore base of the Republican party is driving moderates and centrists away. You cannot win national elections solely with your political base. A party needs a broader appeal. And now, the Republicans are engaged in fratricide and making the party less broad to satisfy the strident ideologues rather than to win elections.

Phone polling for "party affiliation" is fairly inaccurate or fluctuates with mood, just 4 years ago there were more Republicans than Democrats, currently there are about 31% Republicans against 33% Democrats or something, your number of 21% is way off...but none of these numbers really matter in terms of the broader picture. They are very "mood" driven and don't really result in anything.

The amount of partisans who are Republicans suggests that the Republicans should have lost more than they did.

Broader Appeal?

No I disagree, a Party needs more partisan support, the Republicans have a stronger base than the Democrats and this is why Democrats win 28 states whenever they win Presidencies, and Republicans win 49 states when they have landslide victories.

Bush won twice more states than Obama has won this election.
 
That's odd, the US Senate elections for 2010 makes it impossible for Republicans to win back the Senate majority. There's not enough threatened Democratic seats up for election in 2010.

So basically that's like saying "I'll bet you any amount that the world ends tomorrow". Would you take it?

Republican capture of the Senate would require several election cycles.
 
In 2008, Obama won 29 states.

In 2004, Bush won 33 states.

In 2000, Bush won 31 states but won by 4 electoral votes. By your logic, it appears that the Republicans have to win more states and "work harder" to gain more electoral votes. But that is a logical fallacy

Your assumptions are faulty regarding Obama working 71% harder. There is no reason to believe that the inputs of resources are linearly related to the outputs. Go do the same analysis for past elections and see what you come up with.

And how do you know the Republicans didn't spend all the money in 2006?
 
In 2008, Obama won 29 states.

In 2004, Bush won 33 states.

In 2000, Bush won 31 states but won by 4 electoral votes. By your logic, it appears that the Republicans have to win more states and "work harder" to gain more electoral votes. But that is a logical fallacy

Your assumptions are faulty regarding Obama working 71% harder. There is no reason to believe that the inputs of resources are linearly related to the outputs. Go do the same analysis for past elections and see what you come up with.

And how do you know the Republicans didn't spend all the money in 2006?

Look up CQPolitics they do a good publication on money spent on campaigns.

Regarding the relationship, you can by assumption decide that it correlates as a effects to the cause which are an increased trend toward the Republican party.
 
That's odd, the US Senate elections for 2010 makes it impossible for Republicans to win back the Senate majority. There's not enough threatened Democratic seats up for election in 2010.

So basically that's like saying "I'll bet you any amount that the world ends tomorrow". Would you take it?

Republican capture of the Senate would require several election cycles.

By my count, there are 17 Democratic Senate seats up for election in 2010.

Even such, you can still bet on the House. After all, you said

2010 will see a landslide realignment, and 2012 is when the US Census takes effect giving Republicans a +32 advantage by all estimates of population adjustments.

You're predicting a landslide.

So what's holding you back? Why don't you go and plop down a good chunk of your life savings on it? Maybe you're right. I don't know. But you seem to be pretty confident.
 
McCain worked about 84% as hard for each electoral vote he won, or that is to say that Barack Obama worked 118% as hard for each electoral vote he won, that is to say that comparatively, Obama had to work about 71% harder to win the election.

One should also take into consideration that Obama is 50% blacker than McCain.
 
Look up CQPolitics they do a good publication on money spent on campaigns.

Regarding the relationship, you can by assumption decide that it correlates as a effects to the cause which are an increased trend toward the Republican party.

I'm not a statistics whiz, but I've worked with regressions and have a working knowledge of things like Gaussian distribution curves and the like, and I can pretty confidently say that you are not correct in that assumption.
 
Toro you don't even seem to understand that you need to win 10 Democratic seats and all your Republican seats to break even. There are not even 10 threatened Democratic seats, most are safe Democratic seats.
 
Toro you don't even seem to understand that you need to win 10 Democratic seats and all your Republican seats to break even. There are not even 10 threatened Democratic seats, most are safe Democratic seats.

Right, but you said there's this tidal wave breaking towards the GOP in two years. If you are correct, then there are few safe seats for the Democrats.

I mean, I don't know. I'm not arguing that the GOP won't win back both chambers over the next 2, 4, 6 years or whatever. What I'm arguing is that you can conclusively say there is this a massive shift moving towards the GOP. If that were the case, then we wouldn't have 60 Democrat Senators and the GOP pretty much irrelevant nationally because the trends you cited have been going on for some time, if you believe your assumptions.
 

Forum List

Back
Top