Can a 'real' Libertarian support 1070?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Wry Catcher, May 2, 2010.

  1. Wry Catcher
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    Wry Catcher Platinum Member

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    I say No! What say you?
    Did anyone listen to George Will today (on "This Week") try to justify a law justifying dragnets?
     
  2. Big Fitz
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    Gotta link to go with that assertion? I ain't following you. 1070 what?

    Just going out on a limb, if you're referring to the Arizona Illegal Immigrant law, I'd say hell yeah! Libertarians can support this.

    Unless they are globalists who believe that there is a human right to be a US citizen.

    Oh, and it doesn't create dragnets. It just forces the police to obey the federal law if those stopped for a suspected criminal offense to be checked for immigration status and if discovered to be illegal, to be deported. So that's a false argument to say it created dragnets.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2010
  3. JWBooth
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    Dragnets? I preferred Adam 12


    Smartass aside, I didn't see it, so....
     
  4. Samson
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    Samson Póg Mo Thóin Supporting Member

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    I say its pretty simple to determine whether or not Libertarians support Arizona's 1070 Law:

    Since 1070 controls entry of foreign nationals who pose a threat, then you could say Libertarians support it.

    On the other hand, since 1070 also may represent an "Unreasonable Constraint" then some Libertarians may NOT support it.

    Why are we even concerned about whatever Libertarians may think?
     
  5. Kevin_Kennedy
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    Kevin_Kennedy Defend Liberty

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    The problem with using the Libertarian Party as basis for what libertarians believe is that the Libertarian Party has worked very hard to make itself more attractive to the mainstream by becoming more conservative than libertarian.

    In my opinion it comes down to the nonaggression axiom, which essentially defines libertarianism. The Arizona bill aggresses against the right of privacy of anyone in the state by allowing the police to ask for anyone's papers at anytime. Therefore, a "real" libertarian would oppose this bill on that basis alone, regardless of their view on immigration.
     
  6. Gunny
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    You would be wrong for saying no. The US Constitution is the law of the land, not a political party. It establishes US borders and the laws for enforcing those borders.

    Voting no amounts to nothing less than voting against enforcement of the law.

    Perhaps you folk on the left should spend more time and energy on enforcing the laws we have rather than writing new ones out of the Communist Manifesto?
     
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  7. ihopehefails
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    I hate it when people use labels to get people to conform to whatever vision of philosophy they should have. Can a real liberal support Obama's expansion of government and the lack of freedom he has brought to this country?
     
  8. Wry Catcher
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    Wry Catcher Platinum Member

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    Oh me, oh my are you being funny? If the U.S. Constitution is the law of the land, what business is it of the State of Arizona to enact legislation in conflict with it? Or, if you disagree (and believe 1070 does not violate Amendments 4 and 14) then anyone stopped for a burned out tail light or other infracton, and must submit to a search because the officer or deputy has a "resonable suspicion" of their status, and who is here legally, or is a citizen, will sue the shit out of the agency.
     
  9. Big Fitz
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    Show where it conflicts with US law.

    It does not violate the 4th amendment because reasonable suspicion of criminal activity has been upheld by ALL courts for over a century. It is usually the minor infraction that discovers the major one. Do you think it's bad to remove a kidnapper from the street because he was caught with a burnt out tail light?

    Race cannot be the ONLY reason to pull someone over. There must be a suspicion or evidence of criminal activity. The same way if you get pulled over for a burnt out headlight and the cop sees the joint behind your ear and then calls for the drug dog and finds the 20 keys of black tar heroin in the spare tire compartment.

    And just so you know, you do not automatically get US Citizenship by crossing the border, therefore they cannot be protected as citizens under the 14th amendment. You are a guest. And if you aren't legal, you're not even that... you're a trespasser.
     
  10. Samson
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    I agree: Libertarians would have a very well controlled border, however, if you weren't a criminal, then you could enter the USA with no fear of being asked for proof of citizenship.

    Though, regardless of whether or not you are Libertarian, Democrat, or Republican: WTF kind of government allows just anyone, criminal, terrorist, or babymama to cross the border, much less THOUSANDS, and TENS OF THOUSANDS??
     

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