Can a newbie get a break?

[jimnyc]

My only point was that GW is a veteran as well. He may not have been as heroic as others, but he's earned the right to call himself a veteran.

 

[Psychoblues]

I don't agree at all, jimnyc. GWB is not a veteran and until just recently never desired to be a veteran. I remember all too well the National guard enlistees and restrictions of the 1965-1973 era. They were almost all draft dodgers too cowardly to go to Canada or well connected enough to get a "cush" gig in the Peace Corps or the Guard or Reserve at that time. Now I don't mean to say that all NGer's or Reservists from that era were cowards or deserters but I certainly mean to say that GWB was.

This ol' vet knows his kind. I've got more respect for the ones that went to Canada than I do for him, GWB.

How did he "jump" above the 500 or so that was in front of him waiting for a spot in that elite but functionally obsolete unit for enlistment?

Why did he "disappear" in 1971 and why does he refuse and why does the NG refuse to explain his absence during that time? Why was he taken off of flight status? I know that already. He refused his annual physical. Why did he refuse to take that routine annual physical?

GWB is both a draft dodger and a deserter. That's this ol' vet's opinion and I'll keep it until I see some answers to my questions.

 

[jimnyc]

You're entitled to your opinion, for what little it's worth, no more than anyone else's.

I hate to burst your bubble, but he is a veteran whether you think he ever desired that title or not. The simple fact that he served in the armed forces makes him a bonafide veteran.

 

[janeeng]

If it's to call Bush a dodger, what shall we call Clinton then???

here is a little link on Clinton!!!!!!!


http://www.middlebury.net/clinton/

Good reading!!!!!!

 

[Joan]

Why is it then that all the veteran's turned their backs on slick willie? The man was a complete and utter draft dodger!

 

[Psychoblues]

Originally posted by janeeng
If it's to call Bush a dodger, what shall we call Clinton then???

here is a little link on Clinton!!!!!!!


http://www.middlebury.net/clinton/

Good reading!!!!!!

Clinton doesn't claim to be a veteran nor did he ever want to be one. The shrub lost all his college deferments and got himself hooked up in an elite functionally obsolete unit that was well known in the 60's for the politically connected to hide in. Here's some info I'd like to share with you on the shrub's presidential record.

GEORGE W. BUSH

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:

I attacked and took over two countries.

I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the US Treasury.

I shattered the record for the biggest annual deficit in history. (No Small
Achievement!)

I set an economic record for the most personal bankruptcies filed in any 12
month period.

I set all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the stock
market.

I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.

I am the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal
record.

In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days
on vacation by any president in US history (tough to beat my dad's,
but I did).

After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided
over the worst security failure in US history.

I set the record for most campaign fund raising trips by any
president in US history.

In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their jobs.

I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans than any
other president in US history.

I set the all-time record for most real estate foreclosures in a
12-month period.

I appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions
than any president in US history.

I set the record for the fewest press conferences of any president,
since the advent of TV.

I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution
than any other US president in history.

I presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused
to intervene when corruption was revealed.

I cut health care benefits for war veterans.

I set the all-time record for most people worldwide to
simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million
people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the
history of mankind.

I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US
history.

I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any
in US history.

Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US
history. (The poorest multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a
Chevron oil tanker named after her).

I am the first president in US history to have all 50 states of the
Union simultaneously struggle against bankruptcy.

I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in any
market in any country in the history of the world.

I am the first president in US history to order a US attack and
military occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so against the
will of the United Nations and the vast majority of the
international community.

I have created the largest government department bureaucracy in the
history of the United States, called the "Bureau of Homeland
Security".

I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending
increases, more than any other president in US history (Ronnie was
tough to beat, but I did it!!).

I am the first president in US history to compel the United Nations
remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.

I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations
remove the US from the Elections Monitoring Board.

I removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of
congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US
history.

I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.

I withdrew from the World Court of Law.

I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by
default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations
election inspectors access during the 2002 US elections.

I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate
campaign donations.

The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also one of
my best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate
bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron
Corporation).

I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in
US history.

I am the first president to run and hide when the US came under
attack (and then lied, saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)

I am the first US president to establish a secret shadow government.

I took the world's sympathy for the US after 9/11, and in less than a
year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly
the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

I am the first US president in history to have a majority of the
people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to
world peace and stability.

I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government
contracts.

I set the all-time record for the number of administration
appointees who violated US law by not selling their huge investments
in corporations bidding for gov't contracts.

I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than
any other president in US history.

In a little over two years. I have created the most divided country in
decades, possibly the most divided that the US has been since the Civil
War.

I entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in
less than two years turned every single economic category heading
straight down.


RECORDS AND REFERENCES:

I have at least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (My Texas
driving record has been erased and is not available).

I was AWOL from the National Guard and deserted the military during
time of war.

I refuse to take a drug test or even answer any questions about drug
use. Although I did do my share of cocaine in my younger days.

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited
away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for
public view.

All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or
bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public
view.

All minutes of meetings of any public corporation for which I served
on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding
public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for
public review.

FYI

Someone mentioned that ALL the vets were in support of the shrub. Well, this vet ain't and I know of no other vet, save one or two, from the Viet Nam era that is in any way supportive of such a secretive and power usurping government that we now have. In other words, I know of no other vets that support GWB but maybe that's a southern thing. All hat and no cattle, that's GWB.

 

[jimnyc]

Psycho, once was enough, please don't post your crap multiple times. You posted the exact same article in the General USA section.

 

[Psychoblues]

That's twice, jimnyc. My opinion "for what little it's worth" (your words) and now a lecture on appropriate posting. I might really piss you off with my opinions but my opinions are certainly as valid and as large as yours. Are you advocating a dismissal/removal of the free speech mantra that this site wears so proudly? I hope not.

 

[janeeng]

I don't think it's about FREEDOM of SPEECH Physco, it's about posting something 2 times, the exact same thing, and we got you on the first one. Of course Clinton didn't want to be considered a VETERAN, because he is a DODGER as you claim BUSH is!!!! so, touche!!!! You all sit back and call Bush stupid and spending tons of money on the war, well just 21 tomahwak's out of Clinton and innocent Civilians killed, cost a whooping $25.2 million dollars alone!!!!!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Presidential Honors
When Clinton lobbed 21 Tomahawk missiles into downtown Baghdad, killing 9 innocent civilians at a cost of $25.2 million, he set an all-time record for cost-per-murder, earning kudos from groups interested in that sort of thing.

"Killing is really fun", said Clinton. "Especially when you're safely behind bulletproof glass. This is better than a video game!"

 

[5stringJeff]

Psycho,

Welcome to the board - somehow I think we will probably be on the opposite end of the issues!

Anyway, I responded to your Bush resume on the other thread you posted on... for your comments.

Again, welcome, it's a truly fun place for all parties involved!

 

[Psychoblues]

Sure, gop_jeff. I saw your response and I thought you were just giving an opinion on some of the statements. Thanks for the welcome and I do hope to do the political tango with you sometimes. So far this seems like a wonderful site and I hope my participation here does nothing to diminish that.

You probably correct when you say that we might find ourselves on opposing sides of various issues but we might surprise each other. I'm really more of a moderate/centrist Democrat and I find agreement with many of my more right-leaning acquaintances and they also with me. All the jabber that we might do on this board or any other is just that, jabber.

Insofar as that shrub resume' is concerned I don't agree with all of it either but it does paint a fairly accurate picture of him, I think. But, yes, it does go over the top in a few places. But I suppose you might think all the stories that I've heard about Clinton from many right wingers are true as well. So maybe we're even.

When shrub was running for office I once told a good friend that I might enjoy having a beer with him but I didn't think he was fit for the office of the President. As he has performed his duties I realize that I would not enjoy a refreshment with him whatsoever and in my mind's eye he is worse than I ever imagined him to be as a prez and moreso as the CiC. But, we'll get into all that as time goes on.

Thanks for the welcome, gop_jeff and I'll see you on the boards!!!!!!!

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
I don't agree at all, jimnyc. GWB is not a veteran and until just recently never desired to be a veteran. I remember all too well the National guard enlistees and restrictions of the 1965-1973 era. They were almost all draft dodgers too cowardly to go to Canada or well connected enough to get a "cush" gig in the Peace Corps or the Guard or Reserve at that time. Now I don't mean to say that all NGer's or Reservists from that era were cowards or deserters but I certainly mean to say that GWB was.

This ol' vet knows his kind. I've got more respect for the ones that went to Canada than I do for him, GWB.

How did he "jump" above the 500 or so that was in front of him waiting for a spot in that elite but functionally obsolete unit for enlistment?

Why did he "disappear" in 1971 and why does he refuse and why does the NG refuse to explain his absence during that time? Why was he taken off of flight status? I know that already. He refused his annual physical. Why did he refuse to take that routine annual physical?

GWB is both a draft dodger and a deserter. That's this ol' vet's opinion and I'll keep it until I see some answers to my questions.

Seems to me you are incorrect:

National Guard History

"The National Guard, the oldest component of the Armed Forces of the United States and one of the nation's longest-enduring institutions, celebrated its 365th birthday on December 13, 2001. The National Guard traces its history back to the earliest English colonies in North America. Responsible for their own defense, the colonists drew on English military tradition and organized their able-bodied male citizens into militias."


Those that served their country whether by National Guard service, civilian miliatary positions or even those who were doctors and lawyers and school teachers and janitors or whatever all deserve respect. I have respect for conscientious observers who, although they cannot kill for whatever reason, still served their country by cooking, cleaning or educating those that could serve for them. There is no shame in not wanting to be on the front lines...it takes all kinds of people and service to make this country work.

I have no respect for those that left the country or just dodged the draft and did not lift one other finger's worth of service for their country.

Not everyone has to pick up a gun and die for their country but they damn well better pick up and do something other than leave and then come back to enjoy the very freedoms that others fought for.